![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by wittgensteinz on September 24, 2010, at 7:14:38
I wanted to add to the conversation about skype but it seems best to continue in a new thread.
Twinleaf, I'm happy you are posting again - I hadn't realised you'd been blocked - people come and go from Babble (me included) - although I still like to read the threads here. I admire those who have the discipline to contribute regularly (Dinah and others) - despite my intentions, I've never managed to do so.
Anway...
"traditional analysts have the camera placed behind the head of the patient, who is lying down on the couch"
Thanks for giving me a big smile. I might just have to share this with my analyst! It surprises me that orthodox Freudian analysts would engage in e-therapy in the first place.
My analyst isn't particularly orthodox - although his divan is not just there for decorative purposes. I've tried lying down just a couple of times but didn't feel comfortable (well it was comfortable physically but not emotionally) - much for the same reasons - no possibility to glance/peek at him, visual reassurance, nonverbal communication. Even though 80% of my sessions I have my eyes closed or averted, those quick glances are very important to me. This non-verbal element of the therapy is both comforting, exciting and terrifying (as I experience it) - and assumes a different level of intimacy than the purely verbal. I've never spoken about this with him actually - I wonder why?
Witti
Posted by twinleaf on September 24, 2010, at 15:50:27
In reply to Skype, divans and analysts..., posted by wittgensteinz on September 24, 2010, at 7:14:38
Hi Witti! It's nice to see you too.I loved the thought of a patient alone in a room setting the camera up so she'll be filmed just as an analyst would see her, then carefully lying down and starting the session, while he watches, unseen, from another continent. My analyst got a brief fit of the giggles telling me this. I'd love to know how yours reacts.
On the other topic you mentioned, .I have become much more aware of the non-verbal aspects of the relationship, but I don't think we have to know they are happening, or talk about them. Just so they do happen, from time to time! I spend a lot of time with my eyes closed, too, and the quick glances do mean a lot. They are exactly like the quick glances my newborn son used to give me. Invariably, in a moment, the arousal and excitement would be too much for him, and he would need to look away for a while.
Posted by vwoolf on September 25, 2010, at 9:56:47
In reply to Re: Skype, divans and analysts... » wittgensteinz, posted by twinleaf on September 24, 2010, at 15:50:27
I keep my eyes closed most of the time, but I also have those moments of closeness, of eyes meeting in what feels like almost unbearable intimacy, even though we are working via skype at such impossible distances. And at times it gets so intense that it feels as if I am trying to climb through the computer screen to get closer to him. Perhaps I should set my computer up differently, put it high up in front of a comfortable armchair so that I am forced to sit back more and be more thoughtful.
Posted by wittgensteinz on September 26, 2010, at 4:09:27
In reply to Re: Skype, divans and analysts... » wittgensteinz, posted by twinleaf on September 24, 2010, at 15:50:27
I will let you know. I wonder whether he is already aware of this phenomenon. He isn't super computer savvy.
Re. the China project - this sounds very interesting. I'm curious how cultural differences play into the therapy. My therapist went to Japan for a period and saw patients while he was there. From my understanding of Japanese culture (and perhaps this also relates to Chinese culture to some degree), there is more openness about bodily processes (sex etc.) than say in the US. This is apparent in Japanese art, for example. On the other hand, personal strength and perseverance are central - you are of your own making - and so are your short-comings - so I imagine admitting one has mental illness is very difficult and unacceptable - plus the strong bond of families, and respecting ones elders and upholding family honor.
Witti
Posted by wittgensteinz on September 26, 2010, at 4:17:23
In reply to Re: Skype, divans and analysts..., posted by vwoolf on September 25, 2010, at 9:56:47
I had somehow missed your earlier post that you do your therapy via Skype. How amazing that the intimacy and closeness are not only there but stronger than before with conventional therapy.
I have a couple of questions (for my curiosity)...
Do you always have your sessions in the same place/room? Do you find it hard to find a private enough place or does it feel even more private/comfortable to have the therapy from your own familiar surroundings (home)? Are there not problems with time zones - does that mean you have your sessions at strange times of the day/night? How does the absence of a 'physical presence' add to/take away from the therapy? No hand shakes I guess! Cyber hand-shakes maybe! I guess it could be less intimidating in a way - easier to say what you really feel while knowing there is no risk of it ever being acted upon.Perhaps too many questions - feel free to tell more if you'd like to.
I wonder if anyone has written a book on this?
Witti
Posted by vwoolf on September 26, 2010, at 7:24:52
In reply to Re: Skype, divans and analysts... » vwoolf, posted by wittgensteinz on September 26, 2010, at 4:17:23
Funny how the microscopic details become so important where everything is being analysed.
Well, to answer your questions:
> Do you always have your sessions in the same place/room?
The first two or three sessions I felt very self-conscious, and decided that I needed to keep things quite formal. I set my computer up at a desk in the lounge and we talked from there. He was travelling at the time and the sessions were early in the morning for me - at about 8am, I think, and evening for him. I got up really early to wash my hair and be dressed and ready and made up and looking 'proper'. It was winter here and the house was very cold and dark at the time (we don't use central heating here), so I made myself some coffee and a hot water bottle and bundled myself up in a coat and scarf and shivered through the session.
After the first few sessions he returned to the US and we then started having sessions at about 6pm for me and mornings for him. That is a time when there are other people around my house, so I decided to 'move' the sessions to my bedroom, where I have my computer on another desk. It feels more private and intimate here. I know no-one can hear me and I have instructed everyone not to come in. My analyst did not comment on the change of room, and I have not spoken about it. I did worry at first that he would read all sorts of meanings into the new venue but I have preferred to just leave it for the moment. I rather prudishly angle the webcam so that it misses the bed and looks out of the window instead, so perhaps he thinks it's just my study.
I had actually already met him a few years ago - he had come here for two weeks as a visiting analyst, and we had got to know each other quite well. I had attended his seminars and we had had meals together and been for long walks. He had even come to a party at my house at the time, so I knew when I set up my webcam in the lounge that it was like inviting him into a room he already knew, and that felt comfortable to me.
I suppose I started out trusting him quite a lot, and trust hasn't really been an issue between us. But perhaps that is because I had worked through the trust issues already with my previous therapist. It's not that I don't have resistences and feelings of shame with him; it's just that I can see very quickly that they belong to me and have nothing really to do with him. He feels really accepting and kind.
> How does the absence of a 'physical presence' add to/take away from the therapy? No hand shakes I guess! Cyber hand-shakes maybe! I guess it could be less intimidating in a way - easier to say what you really feel while knowing there is no risk of it ever being acted upon.Well, of course no handshakes, but then I never had those with my therapist either - she had very strict boundaries. I think the physical presence comes across with skype quite well. It certainly doesn't feel like a problem to me. He feels physically close, but perhaps that is because I already know him quite well. It might be more difficult if I had never met him. But actually, now that I think about it more carefully, it still probably wouldn't be a problem. The closeness is through the eyes, through the voice, through the sense of being understood, through his kindness and enthusiasm.
> I wonder if anyone has written a book on this?It would be fascinating to read about other people's experiences. Let me know if you come across any other stories about this.
Posted by wittgensteinz on September 26, 2010, at 8:47:47
In reply to Re: Skype, divans and analysts... » wittgensteinz, posted by vwoolf on September 26, 2010, at 7:24:52
Thank you for the detailed answers. I find it all very interesting.
That you had met him before the therapy began in an informal context is rather nice I think - and something rare. Also that he has seen your home and been with you in a social context. I can imagine that trust would come more easily after this.
I live in a country where the native language isn't English, although most people here have a reasonable command of it. It was a concern in the beginning finding a good therapist who was at ease with working in English and who was fully open to understanding me including the subtle cultural differences between 'here' and where I grew up. Fortunately I found someone with whom I have a very good fit - in some ways there are quite a few similarities between us, which has really helped the therapy along.
It never crossed my mind to consider a long-distance solution via the Internet - but maybe I would if I ever end up relocating again or if I need to go away for a shorter period.
Witti
Posted by vwoolf on October 11, 2010, at 16:32:17
In reply to Re: Skype, divans and analysts... » wittgensteinz, posted by twinleaf on September 24, 2010, at 15:50:27
Thought you might find this Washington Post article on Freud coming into fashion in China interesting:
Posted by twinleaf on October 12, 2010, at 6:59:49
In reply to Re: Skype, divans and analysts..., posted by vwoolf on October 11, 2010, at 16:32:17
That's the one my analyst is part of. Too bad they didn't interview him, as he was one of the first to do it, and lives in Washington. Thanks!
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.