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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on June 30, 2010, at 13:46:27
I don't think it's entirely a bad thing.
And it's not that I see him incredibly badly. Or even that I saw him as all that idealized before.
It's more that the point of view has shifted a bit. I'm seeing him more horizontally rather than from below looking up.
I think it stemmed from some self disclosure on his part. I haven't decided yet whether his self disclosure was a mistake or not. Maybe this was a shift that had to happen for my therapy to move forward. Maybe it's that shift that happens sometimes when your parents are no longer really your parents, but are fellow human beings.
I hoped that it would wear off, but it's not doing that.
I'm really not sure how I feel about it. I still care about him. I still even occasionally call him when I'm really upset. But... I dunno. Something has changed. Definitely not for the better. But possibly not for the worse either, given where I was in therapy. Just different.
Posted by PartlyCloudy on June 30, 2010, at 16:11:38
In reply to I'm seeing my therapist differently, posted by Dinah on June 30, 2010, at 13:46:27
Change is difficult, but not always a bad thing. Definitely good that you have recognized it! Just watch it. Watch it.
pc
Posted by Dinah on June 30, 2010, at 19:35:01
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently, posted by PartlyCloudy on June 30, 2010, at 16:11:38
I suppose I'll have to. I wish I could stop change in its tracks though. At least some sorts of change.
My therapist would say "I know you do."
Posted by brokenpuppet on July 1, 2010, at 1:55:56
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently » PartlyCloudy, posted by Dinah on June 30, 2010, at 19:35:01
is it hard because you feel like you're losing him in a way...? but maybe you're gaining more of yourself/ making more room for yourself...?
(i'm not actually sure what the change was so i might be off...)
Posted by Dinah on July 1, 2010, at 8:49:12
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently » Dinah, posted by brokenpuppet on July 1, 2010, at 1:55:56
I think the parental transference may be lessening. He's really not all that much older than I am, but the transference has been a very strong mother child one.
I'm unhappy about this because I like being a daughter. I've always liked being a daughter. It's a role I am good at and enjoy and that makes me feel safe.
Posted by PartlyCloudy on July 1, 2010, at 8:59:07
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently » brokenpuppet, posted by Dinah on July 1, 2010, at 8:49:12
Perhaps this is signalling a surge of growth in your own development, Dinah. Change is so often unwelcome at first, but it can lead to many unforeseen opportunities. You've been working with your T for a long time; I personally see this change as a positive move :-)
pc
Posted by Dinah on July 1, 2010, at 9:32:56
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently » Dinah, posted by PartlyCloudy on July 1, 2010, at 8:59:07
Perhaps. Certainly healthy isn't always happy.
I suppose I never really saw that aspect of myself as causing any real problems. In fact I think I saw it as solving a few. I still have problems with emotional regulation. I probably always will. The mother/child dynamics helped me with that.
I guess it remains to be seen if I can compensate in other ways.
Or better yet, I might be able to get back to where I'd rather be. If I try really hard. :)
Posted by Annierose on July 1, 2010, at 10:55:15
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently » PartlyCloudy, posted by Dinah on July 1, 2010, at 9:32:56
Where would you rather be?
I do think this change is a positive one.
Posted by Dinah on July 1, 2010, at 11:16:48
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently » Dinah, posted by Annierose on July 1, 2010, at 10:55:15
Hmmm.... Let me think out loud. I'd welcome anyone's comments.
First, I have to say that in my family being a daughter did not mean being taken care of. Well, not exclusively anyway. In my husband's family, mothers fed and fathers advised and kids were expected to do well at school and be polite and honorable people. In my family, being a daughter meant caring for my parents as well as being cared for. I knew Daddy was there for me if I needed him, and that after a fair amount of yelling and fussing, he'd come through for me every time. And mother took good care of me, especially when I was young. But being a daughter also meant being helpful. My parents were volatile, really didn't like each other, had very few outside sources of support and no therapists. Being a daughter meant mediating between them, helping regulate *their* moods. Distracting or cheering or reframing things. Listening to them. Taking on a fair share of the work around the house. Daddy did a lot, but I took care of comfort for them as much as they took care of comfort for me.
So being a daughter to me doesn't mean what it might mean to others. During Katrina, I listened to the radio constantly and I knew my therapist didn't. So I called him whenever I heard something that might be helpful to him (and since it was helpful to him, he didn't mind). I took care of him to the best of my ability, but in a helpful daughter sort of way.
Being a daughter certainly never meant to me that I thought my parents were wonderful or all knowing. I knew my therapist's flaws pretty well.
I think that maybe one way of being a good parent is showing your kids, as they're ready, that you aren't just a parent. That you're a person just like they are. That you have faced or are facing the same issues they are. Certainly there are wonderful parents who go to their grave with mom being mom and dad being dad. Maybe mom and dad fail with time, and the roles are reversed. But mom and dad never stop being mom and dad. That was true with my father. And in a different way I think it has to be true with my mother.
But I've seen and I've read about families where there is a time when the kids have this epiphany that mom and dad really aren't just mom and dad. That they're Ward and June, with their own lives and dreams and thoughts that have nothing whatsoever to do with the kids.
Something my therapist self disclosed about his life and attitudes led me to that epiphany about him. Maybe it wouldn't have if I weren't ready. Or more probably, maybe he wouldn't have said what he did if he hadn't seen I was ready. And suddenly my therapist/mommy wasn't just my therapist/mommy. Not my wonderful therapist/mommy and not my flawed therapist/mommy who caused me all sorts of problems by letting his real self in the room. Suddenly, in an instant, he was like... well, not a friend precisely. But a fellow traveler maybe? Someone whose eye I would catch and share a moment of... mutualness?
The problem is that that moment hasn't really reversed itself. And while it may be healthy by some abstract standards of what adulthood or therapy clienthood might mean, I'm not sure it's in my best interests. I think it's helpful for me to be a daughter. To have a therapist/mommy. I think I can face the world better and deal with the world better if I have that to come to. I think a therapist/mommy can help regulate my emotions better than a fellow traveler can.
Why does healthy have to be judged according to some ideal of what a person of my age should be? Why can't it be judged in terms of my functioning as well as I can function?
Posted by Dinah on July 1, 2010, at 18:44:17
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently » Annierose, posted by Dinah on July 1, 2010, at 11:16:48
Sometimes I think being a daughter is the only thing I'm really good at. I don't think I make a very good wife.
Posted by Daisym on July 2, 2010, at 0:50:34
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently » Annierose, posted by Dinah on July 1, 2010, at 11:16:48
Perhaps humanity lessens magic.
And perhaps this is why it is so hard to see your therapist or your parents as human - we need them to be magic.
Therapy is so much safer when we can suspend reality for a little while. I think we need to be able to do that and to believe, at least a little that the best of what we get from our therapists is solely ours.
And it is sad when reality intrudes in any way and we are forced to see it differently.
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2010, at 14:33:23
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently » Dinah, posted by Daisym on July 2, 2010, at 0:50:34
Yes, we do. There has to be magic in therapy, or at least there does for me.
I talked about it with him today. He doesn't see growing up as being incompatible with being a therapee/daughter in our relationship. And in talking about it, he pointed out that a lot of what I was saying seemed to be related to his forgetting to call me not that long ago. I had forgotten all about it and hadn't made a conscious connection, but once he pointed it out it seemed obvious.
I'm feeling better about it. It's not that our session was all that great. He has a really hard time understanding my idiosynchratic notions of what it means to be grown up and what it means to be a daughter. But he tried. Parts of it he does understand.
It reminded me again something that I've learned to be true in all corners of my life. I have a tendency to try to figure things out on my own, and worry about them. Yet if I talk about them with the person involved, things don't seem nearly as bad.
Posted by Daisym on July 2, 2010, at 15:26:32
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently » Daisym, posted by Dinah on July 2, 2010, at 14:33:23
I also think that sometimes our therapists forget that while we seem grown-up and OK with the evolving relationship, there are parts of us that want them to forever remain careful about their disclosures.
My therapist told me that once, a long time ago, he had such a great vacation that he was truly reluctant to return to work. And in the context of what we were talking about, this was an appropriate disclosure - he might have even said, "only once" -- but since vacation is coming up (Aug) of course I'm now worrying about this.
I sometimes want to write a script for him to follow. But then he says the most amazing things and I think, "wow, who saw that coming?"
Posted by Dinah on July 4, 2010, at 14:15:01
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently » Dinah, posted by Daisym on July 2, 2010, at 15:26:32
You know, you're exactly right. What he disclosed was something that made me wonder what he thought of *me*, and was probably not an appropriate disclosure. The fact that he wouldn't have said it if he did think badly of me isn't really the point.
I guess that while I don't idealize him precisely, it bothers me to see that he may be more judgmental as a person than he is as a therapist. Because down under there is a person, and I don't want him to feel badly about me. In some ways it may be scary even to have him judge me well, since what can be judged well today can be judged negatively tomorrow.
Hmmm.... I suppose this wasn't about growing up at all. It might have been about not growing up more than growing up.
I did say something obliquely about his disclosure. Maybe now he knows it bothered me he won't repeat the error.
Posted by emmanuel98 on July 10, 2010, at 20:20:18
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently » Daisym, posted by Dinah on July 4, 2010, at 14:15:01
My therapist always told me that there's no difference between how he sees me as a therapist and how he sees me as a person. I am a person he knows and who has given him my trust. If he judged me negatively, he coulnd't work with me as a therapist.
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2010, at 13:56:02
In reply to Re: I'm seeing my therapist differently, posted by emmanuel98 on July 10, 2010, at 20:20:18
My therapist has said that he doesn't think he could work effectively with someone he didn't like.
I've been away on vacation, and really didn't miss my therapist. It was barely important to me to see him today and it was a very superficial session. But as it happens, something we discussed made it clear that he doesn't see me as the type of person he was discussing in a very negative sort of way.
Which doesn't change the fact that *I* see similarities in myself.
This is the end of the thread.
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