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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on March 24, 2010, at 11:00:57
O.K. So I'm freaking out in therapy over my use of medications--that I need them to function, that the majority are controlled--it just feels wrong, that I'm an addict and that when I take them, I can actually feel good sometimes. As I'm talking, and beginning to cry, my doc says o.k. two chairs. (I dislike two chairs.) Off-guard, I start two chairs. One chair, crying and ranting; the other chair, crying and subdued. I have NO idea what I am doing. Afterwards, I tell him just that, who was I talking to. He said, I think your super ego and the punished child. Hmmm. I've been trying to get a handle on his mention, here and there, of this over-inflated, punitive 'super-ego'. I've always been aware of the negative voice in my head, constantly criticizing. Ah. So this starts to make sense. This 'super-ego' apparently is troubled that I might just be able to feel good. (We're not talking wildly happy--just kinda quietly pleased and o.k. with being alive.)
So now I'm thinking--o.k.: childhood neglect, abuse; in the absence of any reliable guidance from without, that guidance that every child needs; without being able to make a positive attachment to anyone, I generate my own, which sadly, has become maniacal, overbearing, critical.
What do I say? Pleased to meet you?
BTW: regarding attachment and a previous post as to why I might protect my father--I think I might have been both 'securely' and 'fearfully' attached to my father. Thus, my continued love for him despite the damage AND my ability to form relatively healthy relationships with (very, very) few.
My son, I finally get, might actually be securely attached to me and his father. I can't tell you how I torment myself thinking that I've been f*ckin him up....
Posted by Sigismund on March 24, 2010, at 15:18:27
In reply to talking to my super-ego, posted by floatingbridge on March 24, 2010, at 11:00:57
>What do I say? Pleased to meet you?
No. Something more like 'I think we've met before'.
You seem to be implying here.....
>So now I'm thinking--o.k.: childhood neglect, abuse; in the absence of any reliable guidance from without, that guidance that every child needs; without being able to make a positive attachment to anyone, I generate my own, which sadly, has become maniacal, overbearing, critical.
.....that you have an investment in this and have done so because of loneliness?There seems to be some kind of panic in middle class life, and there can be a fair bit of unfriendly direction but not a lot of friendly empathic help.
Posted by rnny on March 24, 2010, at 15:57:32
In reply to talking to my super-ego, posted by floatingbridge on March 24, 2010, at 11:00:57
Instead of "pleased to meet you" you could say what you are experiencing on the inside with regards to them. "I don't feel safe with you right now" "You are scaring me" "You are hurting me" "You are making me feel sad". Or if "pleased to meet you" is how you feel, then say "pleased to meet you".
Posted by floatingbridge on March 24, 2010, at 19:08:31
In reply to Re: talking to my super-ego, posted by rnny on March 24, 2010, at 15:57:32
rnny, I think your questions are more true and perhaps more fruitful. Something for me to keep in mind. Thanks!
Posted by floatingbridge on March 24, 2010, at 19:26:42
In reply to Re: talking to my super-ego, posted by Sigismund on March 24, 2010, at 15:18:27
Sigi, I like your statement--very true, of course, though I am not sure I could be so arch. At least yet--give me a bit more therapy....
Well, popular theory explains even maladaptive behavior as serving a purpose--and yes, terrible loneliness--a sense of a guiding self formed in
isolation and fear. Middle class, the class of quiet desperation, Eliot's life measured out in teaspoons, has no exclusive claim to this despair--only, perhaps the education, means, and
freedom from labor to contemplate and express it. But you know that. (We were
fairly poor--which didn't help.)So, I guess I do have an investment--
somehow, the theory goes, it kept me alive--it also was the way I felt attached to people, god, the world. A reason, I suppose I can't read Camus or Kafka--being complicite in a self-punishment whose reason is absurd and lost on time.Oh dear.
My long, windy answer--thank you for asking.
Posted by Sigismund on March 25, 2010, at 15:50:18
In reply to talking to my super-ego, posted by floatingbridge on March 24, 2010, at 11:00:57
I realise I get a lot of pleasure out of you hurting me since I am you, but in deference to my feelings I wish you could try to be nicer.
Posted by floatingbridge on March 25, 2010, at 16:05:50
In reply to Re: talking to my super-ego, posted by Sigismund on March 25, 2010, at 15:50:18
Posted by Sigismund on March 25, 2010, at 22:32:51
In reply to :-) (nm) » Sigismund, posted by floatingbridge on March 25, 2010, at 16:05:50
'I very much appreciate your services over the years and would not be where I am today without you, but do you think we could work on extending your range a little?'
(It just occurred to me that it might be dangerous to talk with superegos. They are the sorts of entities that respond with)
'Your entire contribution here bespeaks a constitution entirely flawed, quite apart from questions of relevance, taste and tact.''"Bespeaks" hey?'
Here's Leonard Cohen talking to himself.
It's quite interesting, I thought to myself the other night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHa2dAby4gw
Posted by floatingbridge on March 26, 2010, at 0:51:52
In reply to Harmony in the home, posted by Sigismund on March 25, 2010, at 22:32:51
Sigi, now that really made me smile--still am. Yes. Hmmm. Speaking to super-egos. Brings to mind a dictator--not exactly rational.... (At least mine.)
Now I'm going to watch the Cohen link.
Thanks
Posted by floatingbridge on March 26, 2010, at 1:42:30
In reply to Harmony in the home, posted by Sigismund on March 25, 2010, at 22:32:51
My small and sleek smart phone didn't carry the words well. Something about taking a woman's hand in a massacre.
I thought of something Chris Hedges wrote, to survive a war zone, he'd find one or two couples who were in love. These couples were immune to The hate speech and yje double speak and dogmatic racism. These couples were a osis to him
Posted by Sigismund on March 26, 2010, at 23:56:29
In reply to Re: Harmony in the home, posted by floatingbridge on March 26, 2010, at 1:42:30
Chris Hedges? He's very nice.
Smartphone? I need to calm down.
>Something about taking a woman's hand in a massacre.
Now the Captain called me to his bed
He fumbled for my hand
"Take these silver bars," he said
"I'm giving you command."
"Command of what, there's no one here
There's only you and me --
All the rest are dead or in retreat
Or with the enemy."
"Complain, complain, that's all you've done
Ever since we lost
If it's not the Crucifixion
Then it's the Holocaust."
"May Christ have mercy on your soul
For making such a joke
Amid these hearts that burn like coal
And the flesh that rose like smoke.""I know that you have suffered, lad,
But suffer this awhile:
Whatever makes a soldier sad
Will make a killer smile."
"I'm leaving, Captain, I must go
There's blood upon your hand
But tell me, Captain, if you know
Of a decent place to stand.""There is no decent place to stand
In a massacre;
But if a woman take your hand
Go and stand with her."
"I left a wife in Tennessee
And a baby in Saigon --
I risked my life, but not to hear
Some country-western song.""Ah but if you cannot raise your love
To a very high degree,
Then you're just the man I've been thinking of --
So come and stand with me."
"Your standing days are done," I cried,
"You'll rally me no more.
I don't even know what side
We fought on, or what for.""I'm on the side that's always lost
Against the side of Heaven
I'm on the side of Snake-eyes tossed
Against the side of Seven.
And I've read the Bill of Human Rights
And some of it was true
But there wasn't any burden left
So I'm laying it on you."Now the Captain he was dying
But the Captain wasn't hurt
The silver bars were in my hand
I pinned them to my shirt.
Posted by floatingbridge on March 28, 2010, at 12:06:55
In reply to Re: Harmony in the home, posted by Sigismund on March 26, 2010, at 23:56:29
Thanks! Seems my smart phone lost quite a bit...
Getting my husband to find this in his music collection....
In a completely different vein, I've been enjoying musician Andrew Bird. Youtube-able, I imagine. No lyrics like the captain; however, he's a great whistler.
Have you read any Chris Hedges? (I was suspecting you might be humoring me....)
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2010, at 14:36:04
In reply to the captain » Sigismund, posted by floatingbridge on March 28, 2010, at 12:06:55
> Have you read any Chris Hedges?
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding Chris Hedges to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20100305/msgs/942008.html
That'll be considered a new thread, so if you'd like to be notified by email of follow-ups to it, you'll need to request that there. Thanks,
Bob
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