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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 12:36:53
That stupid *%^()*& egg. I suppose that's my punishment whenever I bring up feeling bored.
At least now I'm angry.
http://theprodigaljon.blogspot.com/2007/12/shoplifting-turning-32-and-hardest.html
http://thegentlepath.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/trauma-eggs/
I don't care if everyone in the world loves the frickin' eggs of shame. I hate it and I won't do it. I don't mind telling him about every teensy trauma I've ever had (and I probably have) but I am *not* going to reduce it to a stupid symbol in a stupid egg to be dealt with with some pretty words and acceptance from my therapist. Then balanced off with some pretty images from the Angel Egg.
My experiences are *mine*.
If he makes me do it, the biggest item in my egg would be the egg itself. But he can't make me do it.
Posted by Sigismund on January 26, 2010, at 15:48:43
In reply to I had the egg thrown at me, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 12:36:53
I looked around there by degrees, Dinah, but Mission Statement finished me off.
Posted by lingonberry on January 26, 2010, at 16:05:02
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me, posted by Sigismund on January 26, 2010, at 15:48:43
I understand you perfectly. How corny isnt that? I think its humiliating asking an adult to do something like this. Only the questions would have been enough. But adding that egg?? I mean, whats wrong with a traditional notebook? My egg would have been filled with shame shame evoked from the exercise itself. Very silly!
Posted by lingonberry on January 26, 2010, at 16:09:44
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me » Sigismund, posted by lingonberry on January 26, 2010, at 16:05:02
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 16:50:37
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me, posted by Sigismund on January 26, 2010, at 15:48:43
I know. :(
It's hard not to let it affect my esteem for my therapist.
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 16:58:07
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me » Sigismund, posted by lingonberry on January 26, 2010, at 16:05:02
I'm glad it's not just me. I googled it after my therapist refused to give me examples of the sort of thing I'm supposed to put in the egg, and I see all these glowing reports of the exercise. It makes me feel foolish for finding it so objectionable.
But I do.
I tried to explain to him that I would find it shameful to myself and disrespectful and belittling to my experiences. Like taking my most private moments and turning them into a party game. He said he just couldn't understand why I could feel that way. I said I couldn't understand why he didn't understand. He said he guessed we just weren't able to understand each other on this topic.
I hate it when he does that.
He's not going to let it drop either. He'll insist I don't have to do it, and it's my choice, but he'll bring it up now and again forever, and argue that I would find it a useful thing to do.
Posted by Sigismund on January 26, 2010, at 17:46:40
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me » Sigismund, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 16:50:37
>It's hard not to let it affect my esteem for my therapist.
As I was cutting the grass I wondered if there is one of those books like 'Understand Object Relations in 25 minutes and intimidate your online friends'.
I haven't been following this egg of shame business, other than seeing you refer to it.
Posted by Sigismund on January 26, 2010, at 17:53:35
In reply to I had the egg thrown at me, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 12:36:53
I seem to be only able to read this in snippets before I experience a powerful urge, but I did notice that it can take 2 days to finish your egg.
>Now let me just say that the therapeutic usefulness of this tool is in the SHARING, not in the drawing. Thats pretty important. Sometimes we have a tendency to nurse our wounds; to stroke and enjoy the pain that wells up when we remember the traumatic events of the past. Thats not going to help you get better, itll keep you stuck.
That makes being stuck sound better than it has for quite a while.
Posted by Sigismund on January 26, 2010, at 17:56:04
In reply to I had the egg thrown at me, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 12:36:53
>List rules unspoken of in the family.
That sounds interesting.
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 19:41:51
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me, posted by Sigismund on January 26, 2010, at 17:56:04
I offered to do that section of the exercise. But he wasn't interested unless I did it all.
He surely should recognize by this time that if I ever did it at all, I would do it with so much bad feeling that I'd be unlikely to get anything out of it except revenge.
Posted by Verloren on January 26, 2010, at 21:15:04
In reply to I had the egg thrown at me, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 12:36:53
Dinah, I'm sorry you were egged.
Did you ask him what he thinks you will get out of doing something so obviously frustrating?
Can it be put off at least, so he won't bring it up time and again?
Can you suggest some other type of sharing activity instead?
He might be trying to force you to do it because you're very opposed to doing it. I wonder what would be the positive or learned experience of this then?
If you tried to share the info without the egg would he actually tell you no or ignore it?
Is it specifically the egg shape or anything else that has to do with drawing your experiences? For example have you ever had to do the personal shield or coat of arms activity? Would you be opposed to either of those?
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/03/10/video-my-personal-shield/
I'm just trying to think of other options. Sorry if I'm way off base here.
-Verloren
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 21:37:37
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me » Dinah, posted by Verloren on January 26, 2010, at 21:15:04
I'd do the personal shield activity. I might complain about having to draw it, but I'd do it if he wanted me to.
What I object to is clumping all my traumas into an egg. I don't like the drawing part, but I think I would mind listing them too. Some of them may still be painful, many have lost their sting. But all of them are part of who I am. And to make them into a list, or a bunch of pictures in an egg, is to minimize and disrespect the experience, for me. I understand that others don't feel that way. I don't mind discussing one or all of them with my therapist. And if he wants to write them down and find patterns in them, that's fine with me. If he wanted to talk over my life with an eye to traumas, I'd be fine with that too.
The very thing that one of the persons in those links talked about liking about the exercise is the thing I find objectionable. I don't want to turn my tigers into housecats. I want to respect them as tigers. Even if I learn to live with them, and gain perspective with them, and talk about them until they lose their shame. It might help some people to reduce them to a few penstrokes and stick them in an egg. But it won't help me. It would just make me angry.
In the words of Captain James T. Kirk...
James T. Kirk: Damn it Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with the wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves.
Posted by BayLeaf on January 26, 2010, at 21:59:25
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me » Verloren, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 21:37:37
"You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with the wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves."
Losing pain and guilt means losing Dinah? You must be in pain and full of guilt to exist? You ARE pain and guilt? No Dinah.
You are not defined by what other people did to you. Other people did stuff, they did not take responsibility for their behaviros, so you picked up ownership. You picked up the responsibility, and filled yourself with guilt.
I hope you can shake it off someday.
Screw the egg. It may be a great tool for people who think in pictures. If you don't, it may not work for you. It's simplistic to think this tool will work for all the many diff kinds of thinkers out there. You are wise. Do what works for you.
hugs, bay
Posted by ebo4ny on January 26, 2010, at 22:19:54
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me » lingonberry, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 16:58:07
It sounds like you expressed a very valid concern that this exercise felt diminishing. I don't really agree with the exercise actually. I think taking such a reductionist approach to people's experiences isn't helpful, but even saying that he has the right to dissagree with you, he really needed to listen to your concerns on the subject. It sounds like you expressed your-self well. If he wants your trust he needs to validate your emotions.
Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2010, at 9:50:57
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me » Dinah, posted by BayLeaf on January 26, 2010, at 21:59:25
I didn't mean it that negatively really. After all these years of therapy, I've grown to be reasonably good at realizing what is mine and what isn't. Boundaries. I might always struggle with guilt, because responsibility OCD is one of my issues.
And admittedly, some of the things I'd put in there are things I chose to do, not things that were done to me.
It's more that my experiences, good and bad, were the forces that molded and shaped the person I am now. And to my mind they deserve respect, as forces, as shapers, as things that are private and are mine. I don't mind talking about them. I have talked about them. But there's something about this exercise that seems disrespectful to me. Maybe not to others but to me.
You're right. I don't really think in pictures. I do think in images, but not images that could be captured in eggs.
I am going to continue to refuse to do this. I don't really understand why he presses it. He says he's intrigued by the fact that I dislike it so much. But surely he must realize that given my feelings toward it, nothing therapeutic would come of it even if I did agree. If he's intrigued by my refusal, well, I've explained as much as I possibly can.
Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2010, at 9:56:11
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me, posted by ebo4ny on January 26, 2010, at 22:19:54
That's it exactly. It's reductionist.
And you're right. Even if he doesn't understand why I feel that way, he should respect *that* I feel that way.
To be fair to him, he considers that he is respecting it. He assures me that he wouldn't minimize any of the egg contents. That we could discuss each one respectfully as long as we like. That it would be private between him and me. That he doesn't mean to be disrespectful. And I do believe him. But that's not the entire picture.
Posted by obsidian on January 27, 2010, at 12:50:52
In reply to I had the egg thrown at me, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2010, at 12:36:53
it's ridiculous to be so unnecessarily rigid and in fact such stands in opposition to the idea that art expression might allow more freedom, and thus may be more therapeutic
tell your therapist I said so
-sid
Posted by muffled on January 27, 2010, at 23:56:03
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me » ebo4ny, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2010, at 9:56:11
Hmmmm, I can understand your T's fascination....
So....its the belittling thats at issue?
Perhaps you could make a CHART instead of an egg w/images. I understand the neurological reasons at attempting to stimulate certain brain regions....
However, perhaps a chart form, with the same info, might get the ball(or egg LOL!!!) rolling as it were?
I can see where this exercise might tease out certain bits of info that could in fact be quite useful.
IF you want to heal stuff.
If not, if all who you are is content w/how you function, then lv be.
If you do want to change...then perhaps things, hard things, hidden things need to be brought to the light of day.
Or not.
Pandoras box.
I hesitate myself to peek.
For me, worst case scenario is there is nothing in the box, i am just an idiot.
Or.
Or maybe something, my T seems convinced. Why I don't know.
Its a worthy topic of conversation perhaps to define clearly why the refusal to do exercise, then perhaps find a way to do it in a way that is dignified.
Or not.
Tough call.
I am phobic of myself.
Go figger.
Best wishes.
Posted by Dinah on January 28, 2010, at 5:53:57
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me, posted by muffled on January 27, 2010, at 23:56:03
You aren't an idiot by any means!
There really isn't anything I could possibly put there that I haven't already told him. He just wants me to tell him again, via the egg. Apparently you find patterns in it, etc. I told him after all this time, he ought to know any patterns I have. But he says maybe we could see *new* patterns.
Posted by Dinah on January 28, 2010, at 5:55:16
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me » Dinah, posted by obsidian on January 27, 2010, at 12:50:52
I will!
I'm afraid he can be as stubborn as I am.
Posted by muffled on January 28, 2010, at 9:48:00
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me » muffled, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2010, at 5:53:57
> You aren't an idiot by any means!
>
> There really isn't anything I could possibly put there that I haven't already told him. He just wants me to tell him again, via the egg. Apparently you find patterns in it, etc. I told him after all this time, he ought to know any patterns I have. But he says maybe we could see *new* patterns.*Maybe you would.
Or not.
If nothing else it could possibly be interesting.
I'd attempt an egg myself. But I don't have much in the way of memory. T says its dissociated. I say its just not there.
Whatever.
Sometimes the simplest dumbest exercises can be illuminating.
I may try it yet.
T keeps saying to take it slow, so I might have to do a slow cooked egg ;)
And I agrree, we are not all the same, so we adapt exercises, therapy styles to 'fit'.
I like my T to kick my *ss. Cuz otherwise I just stay stuck.
Parts of me want to improve my lot.
Others are terrified of change.
Therapy 'work' can be very hard indeed.
I admire that your T is trying new things. LOL, or trying to! :)
I wish you the best Dinah.
M
Posted by Dinah on January 28, 2010, at 19:27:57
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me, posted by muffled on January 28, 2010, at 9:48:00
The whole egg idea came up originally because I asked for homework. Apparently this egg is something he uses a lot now, though I'm not the only client to balk.
I guess this may be one of those idiosyncratic things that is hard for others to understand. I have plenty enough of them.
Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2010, at 16:17:38
In reply to Re: I had the egg thrown at me » muffled, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2010, at 19:27:57
I happily agreed to do another exercise I think is silly as a token of good will. :)
This is the end of the thread.
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