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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by goingballistic on November 12, 2009, at 2:56:37
I have been lurking on this board for a long time and finally got the courage to post. I have been in therapy for approximately 11 years with one therapist. He couldnt help me regarding a particular problem. So, I switched to a new one.
My new therapist is a licensed psychologist and neuropsychologist and does not really believe in psychotherapy or medication. So she does biofeedback, tapping (I think it's called emotional freedom technique), and emphasizes "A course in miracles." I have been coming to her because I am dealing with a very stressful family situation. I am ready to move out of my mother's house and into a homeless shelter (I am financially strapped). I have been trying all of her therapeutic techniques, but they have not been very helpful to me. I am still under so much stress that it is affecting my physical health, and I had begun hallucinating.
I am wondering if any of you have tried, "A Course in Miracles." What did you think of it? Do you think it has therapeutic value?
Also, have you tried tapping? I don't feel anything after doing it many, many, many times. I told her this, but she wants me to continue trying it.
She is a very caring woman. She is willing to help me free of charge when all of my medical insurance is used up. I have about 8 visits left. Unfortunately, when my visits get used up, I will be left with no coverage should I decide to switch providers.Any opinions? I am so confused now.
Thank you so much.
GB
Posted by duds on November 12, 2009, at 6:17:33
In reply to Therapy techniques, posted by goingballistic on November 12, 2009, at 2:56:37
Hello. If she is not helping please find a new therapist promptly.
Some people absolutely need to be on medication to function. I am one of them. If my therapist took a stance of not believing in using medication I would leave.
She's a therapist who doesn't believe in psychotherapy? I find this confusing. I'm curious as to what she does. Is she licensed? Maybe call the board in charge and see if she's legit. I'm not trying to be a butt here, but something sounds up, especially since you aren't feeling any better.
If you are worried about finances, call around your area and see if any places work with a sliding scale. Some state funded places (U.S) will help those in financial need.
Take care of yourself. Trust your gut. And don't be afraid to shop around.
Posted by moonshadow on November 12, 2009, at 8:53:50
In reply to Therapy techniques, posted by goingballistic on November 12, 2009, at 2:56:37
I have heard of tapping, and tried it once even. But honestly, I don't think of it as a proven technique at all, and while I might be curious about it, I would never use it as therapy. It's not a technique taught in graduate schools - I think you can even get a 'degree' for it on-line.
Have you checked out this guy's license? I'm seeing red flags, from his disbelief in medicine and therapy (both of which have been proven to help), and his willingness to treat you for free. While it may sound nice, it's considered unethical by most standards.
I would definitely look for someone else.
Posted by goingballistic on November 12, 2009, at 12:44:50
In reply to Therapy techniques, posted by goingballistic on November 12, 2009, at 2:56:37
Thanks for the messages. Yes, she is definitely licensed and is well known for her work in biofeedback. She knows that medication works; however, she believes that biofeedback works and has no long term possible harmful effects on the body. I should state that "harmful" is her word not mine.
I like the idea of looking for a sliding scale therapist. There maybe some non-profit organizations that do this.
Whoa! I had no idea that it was unethical for a therapist to start giving free sessions.
She is really nice, and it will be so hard to let her go. I have only seen her for 8 biofeedback and tapping (EFT) sessions. I have already become attached to her.
Thanks again everyone!
Posted by Dinah on November 12, 2009, at 13:34:10
In reply to Therapy techniques, posted by goingballistic on November 12, 2009, at 2:56:37
I did biofeedback for a while, and I wish I'd been able to keep up with it. I didn't hit it off with the biofeedback therapist, and heaven knows I had no desire to have any other sort of therapy with him (although he did believe in therapy and said he came as a package set). But the biofeedback was helpful I think. He could have considered himself the source of stress that I could practice on.
Posted by goingballistic on November 12, 2009, at 14:00:17
In reply to Re: Therapy techniques » goingballistic, posted by Dinah on November 12, 2009, at 13:34:10
Dinah,
Thank you for your post on biofeedback. I am sorry that the provider caused you so much stress. How was your biofeedback done? This therapist puts electrodes on my head while I watch a video game of my choice. If I have a negative thought, she either changes the frequency or moves the electrodes around on my head. If you don't mind my asking, did your provider do it this way?
I have had 8 biofeedback sessions, and my stress level hasn't gone down. 3 physicians of mine believe that my stress is causing my blood pressure to rise to a very high level. I had to go to the emergency room once. It is getting ridiculous.
Sorry for my long post.
Thanks for your response.
Posted by Dinah on November 12, 2009, at 14:06:08
In reply to Re: Therapy techniques » Dinah, posted by goingballistic on November 12, 2009, at 14:00:17
No, not at all.
He did it with electrodes not on my head. Temperature, pulse, respiration, etc. And he gave me a thermometer to practice on at home. I was to focus on relaxing my body, regulating my breathing, and lowering my body temperature by lowering my physiological arousal.
Then he'd get mad because when he walked in the room, all my indicators would go haywire. :)
I think it would have been really helpful if I could have kept it up. I should add that although he insisted on doing CBT with the biofeedback, he was associated with a medical facility, I got the referral from my migraine neurologist, and the emphasis was on the physical.
(How can she tell you're having negative thoughts?)
Posted by goingballistic on November 12, 2009, at 16:08:26
In reply to Re: Therapy techniques » goingballistic, posted by Dinah on November 12, 2009, at 14:06:08
Hi Dinah,
Thank you for sharing. Wow, that is VERY unprofessional for him to be getting angry at you. I am sorry that happened to you. That is unfortunate especially since you found it to be rather helpful.
Whenever I have an unpleasant thought, I would let her know. Then, she would change the frequencies or move the electrodes around my head. Maybe I should find another biofeedback provider that does this differently.
I am basically having biofeedback done to deal with a very stressful family situation.
Have you ever found relaxation techniques to be helpful? I just spoke to a couple of psychologists that use these techniques. Talk therapy for this situation wasn't very helpful.
Thanks again.
Posted by Kath on November 12, 2009, at 19:36:09
In reply to Therapy techniques, posted by goingballistic on November 12, 2009, at 2:56:37
Dear Goingballistic
I'm glad you posted. Welcome.
> My new therapist is a licensed psychologist and neuropsychologist and does not really believe in psychotherapy or medication.
~ ~ I haven't heard of neuropsychology. The doctor who runs my Group Therapy group doesn't really believe in medication for certain conditions. She actually provides information for a protocol for getting off psych meds, should her patients choose to do so.
> So she does biofeedback,
~ ~ my therapist has done a bit of this with me. I think it has potention for helping people; haven't done enough to really benefit from it.
tapping (I think it's called emotional freedom technique),
~ ~ I use EFT very often....sometimes daily or more than once in a day. When I do it, I always first decide what I'm going to 'tap' about & rate how upset I am feeling on a scale of 1 to 10. After going through the tapping cycle 2 times, I re-measure my upset rating. I usually go from say 8 to 6 or 5 the first time, then do the whole thing all over again & that usually takes me down to a 3. Usually I can handle being at a 3 but if that's not comfortable, I repeat & would probably get to a 1. I do hope you will feel free to Babblemail me. There might be a slight variation as to how you word things that might help it to be more effective. I'd be glad to give you my thoughts or suggestions if you want them.
:-)
Yes, it is called Emotional Freedom Technique. I know several people who benefit greatly from it. There's another technique called TAT. It is particularly good for sort of 'dissolving' trauma. There's a website, I think it's www.tatlife.com The thing I like about EFT & TAT is that the instructions are free, they're things anyone can learn easily & do for themself. I guess they don't work for everyone, but they do work for a lot of people.> and emphasizes "A course in miracles." I have been coming to her because I am dealing with a very stressful family situation. I am ready to move out of my mother's house and into a homeless shelter (I am financially strapped). I have been trying all of her therapeutic techniques, but they have not been very helpful to me. I am still under so much stress that it is affecting my physical health, and I had begun hallucinating.
~ ~ I'm very sorry you're having such an awful time. I admire your perseverence & openmindedness in trying all her techniques, but if they aren't helping, I think it would be in your best interests if SOMEthing changes.
> I am wondering if any of you have tried, "A Course in Miracles." What did you think of it? Do you think it has therapeutic value?
~ ~ I have heard of it & have friends who have done it, but ya know, I think it has to be the right "fit". I remember a friend saying that she's learned through the C in M that 'anger is an absence of love' & when she's encountering anger, she tries to see it in that way & remember what she's learned.
Well, from what you're describing of your family situation, I think it would take a saint or something to be able to sort of "rise above" the discord & see it from a detached, elevated place! I have no doubt that the C in M could help some people. I have the impression that it would be good for someone who wants to try to become more spiritually aware or something. From what I heard of it, it didn't feel like a good "fit" for me.
I think rather than being 'therapeutic' it seems it might be developing a certain way to see things.My experience has been that for really cut & dried, practical, useful help in dealing with difficult life situations, - I've found Social Workers quite good....maybe better than some psychologists I've worked with. But I don't know if your insurance would cover them. And as with anything else, some are good/some not.
> Also, have you tried tapping? I don't feel anything after doing it many, many, many times. I told her this, but she wants me to continue trying it.
~ ~ As I've said above, there might be a variation on it that could help. Here's one link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i33V2EcVlY&feature=channel
Here's a link describing the basic method of TAT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRXdQNA3aEk
Unfortunately, when my visits get used up, I will be left with no coverage should I decide to switch providers.
~ ~ I'm not sure what to say. It seems to me that
1) I doubt whether the Course in Miracles is a good choice for you at all right now (or maybe ever).
2) To use up all your remaining insurance covered sessions, on biofeedback - I think you would be better served by talking with someone who can give you some really practical help with dealing with your family & your current (what sounds like) crisis situation.
3) You can do a lot of work yourself with EFT and TAT. I don't think it's appropriate for you to have to pay someone for this. The same fellow who did the videos above, offers Level 1 of a "tapping course" free (it's somewhat different from basic EFT). If you try it, like it & want to purchase Levels 2 & 3, you can choose how much you pay - he offers a sliding scale pricing....I think the lowest price is $15.
www.tappingcourse.comHere's a link for a FREE online CBT (Cognitive Behaviour Therapy) course through I think it's a Scottish University. It is very similar to "Mind Over Mood" - an excellent workbook teaching CBT. I have found that doing the "Thought Records" in that book (and on the online course) can help me get my emotions down to an amazing degree.
Say that something had happened & I identified the following emotions at the following intensities:
Fear 80%
Anger 70%
Sadness 90%I've been know to get them down (by filling out a Thought Record, in which you're helped to look at different parts of your thought process & shift your way of seeing things) to
Fear 30%
Anger 35%
Sadness 40%So I find CBT quite good. Sometimes I forget to use it!!!
Here's the link for that:
http://www.livinglifetothefull.com/
I wish you all the best. I think finding a new therapist/psychologist, whatever - can be very stressful & hard to find the right 'fit'.
Once again, please feel free to babblemail me. If you don't know how to set that feature up, ask us. It's a method of you being able to send me an email through PBabble without either of us knowing the other's email address.
:-)
Take care, sincerley Kath
PS - I forgot to mention that I did take meds - was on Celexa, an SSRI for 4 years. I tend to use whatever methods/help available to me from whatever source.
My concern with the therapist you're with right now is that I think you need some really down to earth, practical help in dealing with this. The things she's suggesting seem to me more in the line of self-help in some cases, and in other cases, things which can take time to learn or to help & meanwhile you're in a crisis situation!!
(((you))) that's hugs in computer language!
Posted by goingballistic on November 13, 2009, at 2:17:32
In reply to Re: Therapy techniques » goingballistic, posted by Kath on November 12, 2009, at 19:36:09
Hi Kath!
Thank you so much for your help. I am deeply touched by your beautiful post. You are so kind to have put so much effort in to helping me. It means so much to me that you would go through my entire post and reply to each statement that I have made. I will definitely go through each of your suggestions.
As for the tapping, she has me tap through each problem. For instance, my major problem is the fact that my brother-in-law causes me a lot of grief. On top of that we are in the process of building an addition to our home, and he and my sister and their baby will be living above my mother and I. While waiting for the addition to be built, they are living downstairs with us now. So, she has me tap on my thoughts of the brother-in-law. After the entire process, I rate my feelings on a scale of 1-10. I will check out these videos to get more help with this.
How will I turn on babblemail?
Thank you so much for all of your help and suggestions. I will definitely go through these websites and books.
((((Kath)
Posted by softheprairie on November 13, 2009, at 14:19:31
In reply to Re: Therapy techniques, posted by moonshadow on November 12, 2009, at 8:53:50
and his willingness to treat you for free. While it may sound nice, it's considered unethical by most standards.
>
>What? I don't agree. What professional organization takes that stance? In fact, I think I have heard the opposite: I think I recall one of the professional organizations for one of the disciplines of therapists (maybe psychologists) had a statement that they are encouraged to do some charitable work.
Now, other parts of this new therapist still sound like a big turn-off to me.
Posted by goingballistic on November 13, 2009, at 17:42:11
In reply to Re: Therapy techniques » moonshadow, posted by softheprairie on November 13, 2009, at 14:19:31
Hi,
Well, I have found another psychologist to work with, and my new therapist is willing to do biofeedback without getting paid to do so.
I found out that it is not unethical for a therapist to see patients without charging them. They are, in fact, encouraged to not drop people when they are in crisis. It is called pro bono work.
Thanks again for all input.
GB
Posted by Kath on November 13, 2009, at 21:15:11
In reply to Re: Therapy techniques, posted by goingballistic on November 13, 2009, at 17:42:11
> Hi,
>
> Well, I have found another psychologist to work with, and my new therapist is willing to do biofeedback without getting paid to do so.~ ~ Perfect! I hope you like your new psychologist. My counsellor does some pro bono work. I am very very glad that you can keep up the biofeedback, while doing other work with someone else. So pleased to hear this.
Kath
Posted by Kath on November 13, 2009, at 21:48:48
In reply to Re: Therapy techniques, posted by goingballistic on November 13, 2009, at 17:42:11
Hi Kath!
>
> Thank you so much for your help. I am deeply touched by your beautiful post. You are so kind to have put so much effort in to helping me. It means so much to me that you would go through my entire post and reply to each statement that I have made. I will definitely go through each of your suggestions.~ ~ You're most welcome.
I just typed a huge reply & somehow lost it!!!
Darn!Once you get your babblemail turned on, you can bmail me if you like & I can give you some pointers on tapping if you like.
> How will I turn on babblemail?
~ ~ I think this will help you.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#babblemail
If not, try going to the Administration Board (Boards listed at bottom of page) & ask there.
When tapping, after doing the 'karate chop' opening sentences, I'd suggest trying to do all the tapping points, while talking out loud about the situation. "Darn, I wish they weren't living here. It makes me feel SO frustrated. They don't even seem to appreciate it! They treat me like a slave - do this/do that - reminds me of when I was in Grade 4 having to collect books each time after choir class. I felt like such a centre-shot with my new hair cut that I hated. I was SO angry at Bob Carter, saying I looked like a gnome. I was so angry at Mom for making me get my hair cut so short. I felt so ugly & so sad. And darn it - I'm sad that my life is being disrupted now! Sad & mad!" All the while, tapping. I also find it helpful to rate my feelings before and after.
~ ~ This is a good site: www.emofree.com They have a newsletter & there are all kinds of ways to do tapping & people's ideas & experiences.
The links I sent you are basic stuff. Magnus' site has various videos of him that you can watch.
I didn't mean to totally put down the Course in Miracles. I'm sure it's very helpful for some people. And I also wasn't meaning to put down people wanting to grow spiritually. I think that's admirable.
So glad you have both the biofeedback & a new therapist!
Best of luck & feel free to babblemail me.
:-)) Kath
Posted by goingballistic on November 14, 2009, at 1:06:23
In reply to Re: Therapy techniques » goingballistic, posted by Kath on November 13, 2009, at 21:48:48
Hi Kath!
I learned how to work babblemail. So, I'll definitely send you a message.
Please don't worry. I didn't take it as if you were putting down, "A Course In Miracles." I want to know what people think about this. So, I really appreciate your opinion on it. The new therapist did tell me that it is not for everyone. Some only take portions of the course and apply it to their lives.
I have tried the links that you have given me and found them to be very helpful. I really like the fact that the TAT method is so short and convenient. I will also be working on the CBT course online.
That is a very interesting way of doing the tapping. I will try this approach as you have described it. I think it is neat that you relate it to when you were in the 4th grade.
I can't thank you enough for all of your help and support. I will use all of your suggestions and those links that you have provided in your post. I'll let you know how it goes. I'll send you a babblemail. By the way, I turned my babblemail on.
((((Kath))))
GB
Posted by Kath on November 15, 2009, at 14:50:44
In reply to Re: Therapy techniques, posted by goingballistic on November 14, 2009, at 1:06:23
(((GB)))
Thanks for your hugs!
I'm glad you're interested in the things I mentioned. (LOL - I actually just made up the Grade 4 stuff, but one time I had something come up about "when I was 9 & at xxxxx xxxx's birthday party" LOL)
You sound really proactive. I find it very calming to have things that I can do myself, rather than depending solely on outside help. I take help from wherever I can & use what I can myself also.
hugs, Kath & look forward to hwaering from you.
:-)
Posted by duds on November 15, 2009, at 22:59:13
In reply to Therapy techniques, posted by goingballistic on November 12, 2009, at 2:56:37
Neuropsychologists are NOT medical doctors.
What this person is endorsing has not been backed up by scientific data. CBT is more effective.
Quite frankly she sounds like a quack. She is not a medical doctor, she doesn't believe in medicine (she worries about the long term effects but she doesn't have the medical knowledge to make that judgement call), and the biggest red flag of all, you like her but you are NOT getting any better.
Your mental health is the most important thing. Please take care of yourself.
Posted by Kath on November 16, 2009, at 12:40:38
In reply to Re: Therapy techniques, posted by duds on November 15, 2009, at 22:59:13
> What this person is endorsing has not been backed up by scientific data. CBT is more effective.
~ ~ I use EFT, TAT, CBT, and therapy, and in the past, was on the SSRI, Celexa for 4 years. I use what I call the 'strainer method' or 'seive method'. I take the best of whatever is available & let what doesn't work for me drain away.
I'm wondering what your statement that "CBT is more effective" is based on.Although EFT & TAT may not have been backed up by scientific data, many people are helped by them. TAT has been successful for me in helping me deal with various very traumatic events from the past - so traumatic, that if I mentioned them, I'd have to put a ****trigger**** notice at the top of this post, & I don't want to, because I want everyone to be able to read it.
After years of having therapy from different therapists (my current one being excellent), I had 1 TAT session with a TAT/EFT practitioner - about a super-traumatic childhood event. Now, when I think of the event, the picture that comes up in my mind is a peaceful one & I have no stressful emotions come up at all.
I have done TAT sessions about 4 traumatic events & these sessions have all resulted in what I can only describe as the melting-away of the trauma that remained with me - in most of the cases, for decades.
I know several people who have been helped by both EFT and TAT. I understand people can have alarm bells go off hearing of something that is different & sounds weird. I think, however, that to simply rule them out as viable options is to limit possibilities that can, indeed help many people.
> She is not a medical doctor, she doesn't believe in medicine~ ~ I understand that medications are sometimes necessary. I was on meds for 4 years & they did help me. I am fortunate in that I no longer require them.
>(she worries about the long term effects but she doesn't have the medical knowledge to make that judgement call)
~ ~ I wish that my medical doctor - knowledgeable professional that he is - had told me what havoc Celexa might wreak on my memory. He didn't mention any of the side effects that I've now seen listed for Celexa in numerous side effects lists....I now realize that it is my own fault that I suffered severe memory loss (one of the listed less frequent side effects of Celexa)....my fault for not realizing that if was ME who should research the drug that was being suggested for me. I was VERY nervous about taking medication. And it turns out that that nervousness was not unfounded. Anyway, I'm sorry to go on & on. My point is that concern about longterm side effects is not necessarily a bad thing, it's my opinion that unfortunately, doctors not infrequently make a judgement call without giving the patient an accurate picture of side effects. Personally, I wish I'd had someone err on the side of caution regarding side effects...I might still have my memory!
> and the biggest red flag of all, you like her but you are NOT getting any better.
~ ~ I agree totally. There's that old saying, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" or some such thing. Now, with the biofeedback, I believe that time for training is required (same as with CBT).> Your mental health is the most important thing. Please take care of yourself.
~ ~ I certainly agree with you here also. Especially when we're faced with extremely stressful 'right now' life events - we need 'right now' help!
:-)) Kath
Posted by duds on November 17, 2009, at 9:54:25
In reply to Many people; many different options....... » duds, posted by Kath on November 16, 2009, at 12:40:38
Biofeedback is alternative medicine.
CBT is an effective method for certain people. It will not work for everyone (just depends on the diagnosis). I use it (not in therapy...on my own) along with therapy and meds.
The data for biofeedback's effectiveness in regards to psychological issues is inconclusive.
Biofeedback is also an expensive method.
There are many methods to 'treat' psychiatric problems, but this does not mean that all methods are equally valid.
There are a lot of patients who have been scammed by alternative treatments. It makes me very sad to read about people who are being strung along when the 'treatment' method is clearly not working.
This is the end of the thread.
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