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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on September 13, 2009, at 10:39:07
I was thinking about my therapist's list of diagnoses for me. And about my own diagnosis for myself. While it isn't in the DSM, for reasons I do not fully understand, I don't think it's all that unusual. From whatever confluence of genetics, prenatal environment, and childhood environment and stressors, I have a hyperreactive nervous system. All the things he listed are either ways I cope with that, or effects of that.
From what I can tell, it often comes not only with anxiety or mood disorders, but also with irritable bowel syndrome, migraines, and other physical conditions. What used to be considered somatization in the old days is recognized by doctors like my fabulous neurologist as conditions that all have a common cause, and are all related to the same neurochemicals that influence mood and anxiety. It's not all in the mind, but it may be in the neurochemistry.
I can't believe that mental health practitioners and doctors alike don't see that this is a separate identifiable diagnosis. One that may sound suspiciously like the old "neurotic" but a valid one in a biological sense. If they saw it this way, couldn't they then do more research that is to the point? Why separate the brain and the IBS and the migraines and have each seen separately. My neurologist recognized the common thread that lies through them. And from the look in my internist's eyes when he asks me every time I see him if I'm still in therapy, and looks very relieved when I say yes, your average doctor likely at least recognizes the syndrome if not the biological underpinnings. Actually, all my doctors do that - even my gynecologist, and even when I don't do anything that I can identify as odd during a visit.
Would any of you identify as having hyperreactive nervous systems? And things like IBS or migraines that are associated with them?
Posted by Phillipa on September 13, 2009, at 10:52:12
In reply to Diagnosis - How many identify?, posted by Dinah on September 13, 2009, at 10:39:07
Dinah I've seen this for so many years. Yes also have IBS, the thyroid, the hormones, all related. Anxiety can be related to the thyroid the anxiety creates IBS and the list goes on. My biggest discovery when working was that so many psych patients have thyroid illness. But the docs just don't see connections they quickly send you to a specialist in the field of your complaint. What happened to the docs that cared for your whold body and mind? Phillipa
Posted by seldomseen on September 13, 2009, at 12:19:55
In reply to Diagnosis - How many identify?, posted by Dinah on September 13, 2009, at 10:39:07
Sure, i have a hyperactive nervous system. Sometimes my heart races just because I have a big meal. It's ridiculous. I get migraines, and have what I like to call a suped up GI tract. As you say, it's all related and it's all neurochemical based.
I get the added bonus of extreme hypervigilance. I'm super senstive to sounds and smells (we both are I think), and even a windy day can be such a stressor.
I've asked my therapist for a beta blocker before. These drugs block the action of the sympathetic nervous system and can sort of even things out. Propanolol for instance is indicated for migraine prophalaxis. Thus far, however, he has refused. Citing only that he has had success with these drugs in other patients, then the conversation dwindles.
As far as the etiology of this hyperdriven nervous system, I think it is a remnant, at least for me, of my childhood, where I was totally on guard all the time. The system re-set to this higher level and stays there. I'm ready to flee or fight at a moment's notice.
All I can say, that if one was trapped in the woods or something, you would definately want me there. I would make a great sentry.
Seldom.
Posted by Garnet71 on September 13, 2009, at 12:56:55
In reply to Diagnosis - How many identify?, posted by Dinah on September 13, 2009, at 10:39:07
There's a lot of research out there that applies to your post Dinah. Here's a good example (I think ?):
http://www.psybc.com/pdfs/library/Dysregulation_of_right_Brain_Schore_Trauma.pdf
But who knows how to actually 'fix' this type of brain dysregulation if this is true? IMO, there's a systematic problem in the application of research to clinical practice, and a gap between endocrinology and psychiatry is just one example. Psychiatry in the practice setting seems to be evolving at the pace of a snail. Although I realize it does take time to transfer technology and research to clinical practice, the way psychiatry is practiced today seems so archiac to me. Maybe it's just me and not others who perceive this?
I'd imagine a systematic solution would be costly, and the whole health care system is extremely fragmented; yet, it's components are so interrelated.
If I had the opportunity, I'd love to redesign the entire DSM - but I'd probably need at least 2 more college degrees to even attempt that : )
Posted by blahblahblah on September 13, 2009, at 19:20:27
In reply to Re: Diagnosis - How many identify?, posted by Garnet71 on September 13, 2009, at 12:56:55
I get IBS syndrome when i am really anxious. i just thought it was part of anxiety.
Posted by blahblahblah on September 13, 2009, at 20:08:15
In reply to Re: Diagnosis - How many identify?, posted by blahblahblah on September 13, 2009, at 19:20:27
Garnet71, Thank you so much for that article. If you refer to my earlier thread on attachment (i think the thread before this one) it really related to it and helped with my understanding. Due to all my abuse and neglect being mainly in the first 5 years of my life it was very relevant. Thank you once again.
Posted by Garnet71 on September 14, 2009, at 0:13:28
In reply to Re: Diagnosis - How many identify?, posted by blahblahblah on September 13, 2009, at 20:08:15
You are quite welcome :)
I don't know what to add to your post above-except don't believe everything you hear on an internet forum. I would ask your T & PDoc what they think about your issues, but keep reading to see if you gain additional insights into your situation. Best of luck.
Posted by obsidian on September 14, 2009, at 1:43:04
In reply to Diagnosis - How many identify?, posted by Dinah on September 13, 2009, at 10:39:07
oh yeah, definitely
interesting post dinah,
thanks,
sid
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2009, at 7:27:51
In reply to Re: Diagnosis - How many identify? » Dinah, posted by seldomseen on September 13, 2009, at 12:19:55
I'd make a great sentry too.
Smelling gas leaks? I can do that. Vibrations in the ground? Yep. A drop in the barometric pressure. Just ask my head.
I used to think it was my early training, given my parents uncertain tempers. But I see my son has the same characteristics, and I see no reason for him to have needed them. I also remember some cousins from my most stable aunts and uncles having the same issues. Not all of them, and admittedly I have a vast number of cousins. But even so, I think my mother's family is riddled with hypersensitive nervous systems. Though she herself shows no signs of having one.
So now I put more emphasis on nature, with nurture providing the honing of traits that otherwise might not have been as thoroughly activated.
That's interesting that your pdoc won't prescribe that. I was trying to remember if that was the drug my pdoc refused to prescribe because it had cognitive side effects, and he knew how much I hated those side effects. But... I think that may possibly have been verapamil. I wish I'd written it down.
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2009, at 7:32:17
In reply to Re: Diagnosis - How many identify? » Dinah, posted by obsidian on September 14, 2009, at 1:43:04
I knew it was a fairly widespread phenomenon. And it beats me why it isn't made a more formal diagnosis.
I guess it also beats me why so many things are lumped under depression, when it could be broken down into more useful categories, medication wise.
I too would love to rewrite the DSM. Or convince my neurologist to join the committee. I really really miss my neurologist. I haven't felt in such safe hands since she left.
Posted by Kath on September 19, 2009, at 20:11:43
In reply to Diagnosis - How many identify?, posted by Dinah on September 13, 2009, at 10:39:07
> Would any of you identify as having hyperreactive nervous systems? And things like IBS or migraines that are associated with them?~ ~ Dinah, I'm not sure what that means, but in my Group Therapy, the therapist often will say something like, "You might want to read up on 'The Highly Sensitive Person'. People who are highly sensitive feels things BIG. They are affected in a big way by sights, sounds, events, emotions. I think you might be a highly sensitive person. If so, that's just the way you are; you can't change it, but sometimes it helps to understand it."
I went to Chapters & did the checklist in a book she recommended. I didn't bother buying the book, because I had maybe 1 less than the number of things that were mentioned as indicating one was a HSP. I think the concept helped me somewhat. Sometimes if I'm really upset about something (particularly if my husband seems totally neutral about it) I feel better with the awareness that perhaps I "feel things BIG".
xo Kath
Posted by rskontos on September 21, 2009, at 7:27:48
In reply to Diagnosis - How many identify?, posted by Dinah on September 13, 2009, at 10:39:07
A resounding YES. My IBS is complicated by collageous colitis and right now I have had a very bad flare up that has lasted from August 3 until now. I have had a colonscopy, my second in three years, but this one was bad. I violently vomited the solution. I was so weak by the time I got to the test I did not care what they did or how. They could have removed my colon and I would not have cared. I also have Hashimoto's and it is my firm belief they all stem from my extreme anxiety and dissociative states which all finally resulted in extreme panic attacks.
I really can't work. I believe that was the reason I have continued dissociating badly and my flare ups in my colitis and IBS. My gastroenterologist finally decided I did indeed have both colitis which he confirmed with biopsies this month and IBS. I also have migraines and loads of allergies (I feel due to the inflammatory responses of the colitis which is an inflammatory possible autoimmune disorders as well as Hashimotos.
So I truly believe it is in the neurochemistry which can be altered because of how many neurotransmittors actually produced in the gut and if you have gut disorders the rest would seem to follow.
I have found some studies on this very thing. Autoimmune disorders running in pairs etc.
But my doctors are still separate in their approaches. It upsets me but you can't change their minds just try to find one that will help you.
I have been giving a referral to another doctor that will treat the body more as a whole.
I am glad you found an understanding neuro.
rsk
Posted by rskontos on September 21, 2009, at 7:28:48
In reply to Re: Diagnosis - How many identify? » Dinah, posted by seldomseen on September 13, 2009, at 12:19:55
Seldom,
I related to everything you said.
rsk
This is the end of the thread.
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