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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 21:17:09
I was wondering if people who are successful with sucide, do they plan for it usually? Or is it a spur of the moment thing?
I am not suicidal, but if I wanted to do it, I would know how I would want to do it. If you truly want to die, it isn't that hard to do. So I wonder what makes one take the final step. Do you leave a note?
My T told me it is a very selfish thing to do, his brother did it, and he said his pain just got transferred to others for a lifetime. He didn't give any signs, he just did it. I just wonder how common it is to just do it without planning it.
Posted by sunnydays on June 16, 2008, at 22:59:48
In reply to questions about sucide**triggers, posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 21:17:09
Even if there are no signs, I truly believe people plan it, unless the use of a substance is involved. Even then, they had to have at least thought of it before.
I'm curious as to why you ask. What is important to you about this question right now? (look at me being all T-ish!! :P ).
sunnydays
Posted by Cecilia on June 17, 2008, at 0:45:30
In reply to questions about sucide**triggers, posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 21:17:09
I don't think it's as easy as all that. I remember a program on Oprah about two suicide survivors, one had lain down on the train tracks and the other shot himself in the face, the first had no legs and the second was blind and extremely disfigured, but both were still alive.
Posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 7:47:02
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers » Happyflower, posted by sunnydays on June 16, 2008, at 22:59:48
Haha! T-Sunnydays, I just want to know because I am curious about people's experiences of people they know. I know it is like 6 or 7 of the top causes deaths, and elderly, terminal illness, and teens it is higher.
Will you be my T sunnydays?
Posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2008, at 12:47:00
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers » sunnydays, posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 7:47:02
I know I've thought of it and with me it would be spur of the moment just do it like Nike and already know how. And so does my therapist hence she has if emergency on her phone call 911 she doesn't want to be involved. My pdoc says that people have choices and that is a choice . No trying to talk out of it and it would be an od. Simple have a huge box of prescriptions. No plans right now. Phillipa well you asked and that is what I would do and what I think.
Posted by nellie7 on June 17, 2008, at 14:47:49
In reply to questions about sucide**triggers, posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 21:17:09
Hi Happyflower,
I don't think the act of committing suicide can really be planned. In any case, most people who do it lack proper judgement at the time, due to depression, psychosis or other problems. Therefore, it cannot be considered a selfish deed. Nevertheless, it obviously affects family members severely.
Several years ago I attempted suicide during a psychotic episode, after being totally convinced that my family would be better off without me. The act had not been planned and no note was left. Had I been sane at the time, it would never have happened, as I had promised myself years ago never to take my own life despite ongoing suffering.
I hope that anyone who feels suicidal seeks help and support as quickly as possible. Many times people can feel hopeless but it helps to understand that these feelings are temporary and that it is possible to feel better.Take care,
Nellie.
Posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 17:39:36
In reply to questions about sucide**triggers, posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 21:17:09
I was just wondering what people's experiences have been. I read the stuff in my textbooks or on line, but having the realpersonal story is better I feel.
I am not suicidal, I am just taking a class next semester in depression and sucide.
Posted by Sigismund on June 17, 2008, at 19:33:09
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers, posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 17:39:36
There can be something positive about getting it into our thick heads that life is transient, and that includes suicide. We can become so caught up in (for want of a better word) issues that we lose sight of the flesh and blood people in front of us. Becoming aware of them (which includes their freedom to self terminate), for me at any rate, leads me to value them more, just in this little while we have here, at least so it will seem at the end.
Posted by muffled on June 17, 2008, at 22:56:50
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers, posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 17:39:36
I planned mine. Every detail. I practiced.
I just forgot what a mess it would make.
I forgot about those who care bout me seeing me.
I couldn't figure out how to do it then. Not without alot of mess.
Then I was in hosp and stabilized, and here I am.
I do have a part thats impulsive and has scared me, but I seem to be able to control its impulses.
I also engaged in risky behaviours that could have resulted in death. Suicide accidently on purpose.
So I think all apply.
Least they do to me.
M
Posted by Cecilia on June 18, 2008, at 5:26:08
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers » Happyflower, posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2008, at 12:47:00
Phillipa, I have a huge box of old prescriptions dating literally back to 1977. Pain pills from old surgeries, sleeping pills, and bottle after bottle of antidepressants that didn't work. It gives me security to hang on to them, but realistically I know the chance of the pill method working is low. Too much chance of vomiting. Too great a chance of ending up brain damaged from aspirating the vomit and spending the rest of my life in a nursing home. Cecilia
Posted by Happyflower on June 19, 2008, at 13:38:11
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers » Phillipa, posted by Cecilia on June 18, 2008, at 5:26:08
So am I in danger if I have a plan of how I would do it if I wanted to do it? Between overdose and CO2, there would be little chance of recovery for me or my children if I wanted to do it. I am too successful to fail. Maybe that is a bad quality sometimes. I don't want to kill myself, but if I did, I know exactly what I would do. Or is it when I get into the suicidal state, my plan wouldn't work because I wouldn't be thinking straight, and likely make a mistake?
Posted by antigua3 on June 19, 2008, at 15:06:49
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers, posted by Happyflower on June 19, 2008, at 13:38:11
My T says if you have a plan, you're starting to put yourself at risk. That's what pdocs and Ts look for to see if you're serious: a plan. So call your T!
antigua
Posted by cubic_me on June 19, 2008, at 15:18:30
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers, posted by antigua3 on June 19, 2008, at 15:06:49
Happyflower, have you read Night Falls Fast - Understanding Suicide by Kay Redfield Jamison? A fascinating read for trying to get into the mind of those who complete suicide.
I attempted suicide by a method that doesn't usually fail. I wasn't thinking straight (?obviously) and it failed due to my poor choice of materials while my brain was muddled. I had had a vague plan for ages, but the decision to do it then was impulsive. I wouldn't have had the energy to do anything complicated, but everyone is different.
Posted by muffled on June 19, 2008, at 17:14:33
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers, posted by Happyflower on June 19, 2008, at 13:38:11
> So am I in danger if I have a plan of how I would do it if I wanted to do it? Between overdose and CO2, there would be little chance of recovery for me or my children if I wanted to do it. I am too successful to fail. Maybe that is a bad quality sometimes. I don't want to kill myself, but if I did, I know exactly what I would do. Or is it when I get into the suicidal state, my plan wouldn't work because I wouldn't be thinking straight, and likely make a mistake?
*HF, will you do one thing for me? You trust your T right? Take a copy of this post to your T. There's something going on and he needs to be aware of it.
I am serious.
Please listen to me and do this OK?
This one thing.
Please and thank you.
Your friend,
M
Posted by Dinah on June 19, 2008, at 17:20:22
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers, posted by Happyflower on June 19, 2008, at 13:38:11
I have a plan, of sorts. My therapist knows about it,and he knows what the triggers are that draw me to it. We also talk about what I should do when I'm triggered.
I don't think I'll ever be free of the impulses or thoughts. OCD maybe, or something else. I'm not sure. Fortunately, it's not a plan that would be particularly likely to be carried out on impulse. And I make sure I keep any lethal items out of my house, so that anything impulsive would be also be unlikely to be terribly effective.
I think it's an important level of trust to admit these things to your therapist, to let him into that place of deepest secrets.
Posted by Happyflower on June 19, 2008, at 19:01:27
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers, posted by muffled on June 19, 2008, at 17:14:33
Muffy,
I am not suicidal, I promise. I am only thinking about it because lately things that have been happening on Babble and I am taking a class on it next semester.
I was just thinking if I ever did it, I would do XYZ and it would foolproof because I would never cry out for help if I truly wanted to end my life, I would just do it.
I have too much to live for and it would be very unlikely for me to ever want to do it.That would be in course it I don't ever get terminal cancer or a disease. I have seen what happens,because my dad had colon cancer. It is unbelievable to me that we won't let animals suffer when sick, but yet we do humans. And no, he had the best of meds to help with the pain, and in the end I saw him in enormous pain even with morphine intravenously with buttons to push for as much as he wanted. I think I would want to end my life before cancer gets to that end stage. I think it would much easier on the terminal person and the people who are around that love them.
Posted by muffled on June 19, 2008, at 23:59:57
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers » muffled, posted by Happyflower on June 19, 2008, at 19:01:27
> Muffy,
> I am not suicidal, I promise. I am only thinking about it because lately things that have been happening on Babble and I am taking a class on it next semester.
> I was just thinking if I ever did it, I would do XYZ and it would foolproof because I would never cry out for help if I truly wanted to end my life, I would just do it.
>
> I have too much to live for and it would be very unlikely for me to ever want to do it.
>
> That would be in course it I don't ever get terminal cancer or a disease. I have seen what happens,because my dad had colon cancer. It is unbelievable to me that we won't let animals suffer when sick, but yet we do humans. And no, he had the best of meds to help with the pain, and in the end I saw him in enormous pain even with morphine intravenously with buttons to push for as much as he wanted. I think I would want to end my life before cancer gets to that end stage. I think it would much easier on the terminal person and the people who are around that love them.*So....I still think it would be a good topic to discus with T and bring that other post and this one too.
Just to talk about it.
Cuz I think its really important to talk to T bout stuff like this when we been thinking bout it.
Not so effective if we frantic.
So if you just calm and pondering, I think it would be a great T topic. Bring the posts in and talk bout them. Talk bout why you thinking so much bout it, in such detail.
Just kinda wish you would is all.
Wishing you the best.
M
Posted by Sigismund on June 20, 2008, at 15:50:27
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers, posted by muffled on June 19, 2008, at 23:59:57
>I saw him in enormous pain even with morphine intravenously with buttons to push for as much as he wanted.
Even for some people dying of nothing more than being too old it can be really really difficult.
Posted by Poet on June 21, 2008, at 11:19:58
In reply to questions about sucide**triggers, posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 21:17:09
Hi Happyflower,
There's probably information online as to how many people leave notes or tell someone of their plan beforehand.
I can only say that I have a plan, my T knows about it and four years ago while in a major depression I told her I was going to act on it. She told me it was selfish and that I would hurt my husband and other people who care about me. She said that it would "hurt her in a deep place." Guilt didn't work, her threatening to call 911 on me did, that and a pdoc and new meds.
Poet
Posted by Maxime on June 22, 2008, at 15:27:22
In reply to questions about sucide**triggers, posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 21:17:09
I think sometimes it is an accident. But if someone did it without warning, then they really didn't want someone to save them.
Maxime
Posted by Cecilia on June 22, 2008, at 23:37:26
In reply to Re: questions about sucide**triggers, posted by Maxime on June 22, 2008, at 15:27:22
I won't attempt suicide, because I know with my luck I would most likely fail and end up brain damaged or otherwise with my life even worse than it is. But I don't understand why a T or anyone else would make a depressed person feel even more self hate by telling them suicide is selfish. How on earth does telling someone who already loathes himself/herself that they are selfish make them less depressed? Only a person who is lucky enough to never have been in unending excruciating depression would say that. I have no one in my life who would particularly care if I died, but if I did I would hope they cared enough to not want me to continue in excruciating pain. (Though I do feel that anyone with a minor child has no right to commit suicide, once you decide to have a child you give up that right until they are grown). Just my opinion. Cecilia
Posted by B2chica on June 26, 2008, at 12:37:39
In reply to questions about sucide**triggers, posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 21:17:09
i think most are thought about to some degree. but it comes down to the timing.
it may have been thought about at a previous time such as days or weeks before but 'chickened out', and this one time some trigger happened and impulsivity took over and all the pieces just layed themselves out.
that's how it seems to me.i think that's how it was for my friend.
and how it would be for me.
This is the end of the thread.
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