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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on August 11, 2007, at 1:19:29
In my session yesterday, we were talking about medication and pdocs, because I'm having trouble again and have a med change coming up. I've still got a lot of fear around pdocs, thanks to the agency from hell, and so it seemed like a good idea to talk about some of it before hand. I know my pdoc is leaning towards EMSAM -- and I have a knee jerk reaction to anything new. If it's new, it's too frightening and I've got to RUNAWAY!!!
So, then she started onto black and white thinking: "Well, do you have to do anything?" "Um, I'm not doing so well, right now, so it's basically continue to be crying a lot and generally morose, or change meds." "Why do you think those are your only options?" "Um... Maybe because changing something or not changing something really are the only options?"
Obviously, she chose a bad example to try to make that point, but it got me thinking about the basic underlying point. I'm not sure that it's a problem for me, though. The last time she brought it up, it was over a car -- I need to replace my car, and that started a head butting episode with my husband. I just figured I'd get another Corolla -- much newer, so exciting. Hubby said to get something else, and I found something else I had always wanted, so decided on that. (Over hubby's objections.) My T started the black and white thinking over that one: "Those aren't the only two cars out there..." Of course they're not, but I love my Corolla, and can't think of any other basic car I could like as much; and the other car is something I'd always dreamt of. Getting another Corolla wouldn't be a question of "settling for," but of choosing.
I've always thought of myself as someone who's much more John Kerry than Dubya -- too many shades of grey to most of the world, rather than black and white.
So, I figured many of you have had a fair amount of contact with me, and could offer up opinions on this matter. What do y'all think? Am I someone who's known for black and white thinking? Or is that a non-started for me? Anyone?
I won't say you can't hurt my feelings, because I have been having a rough patch, but I can say that I would like honest -- if gentle -- opinions.
Thanks!
Posted by ClearSkies on August 11, 2007, at 7:39:41
In reply to Black and white thinking -- did my T misfire?, posted by Racer on August 11, 2007, at 1:19:29
I think that you have very strong opinions - and that's a good thing. You're not one to sit on a fence and wonder, "well maybe, if only, and then if these conditions were right, and the moon was in the proper phase..." You know what you want. I would much rather be behind you in line at any store, than the person who is wanting to be persuaded, or guided, in one direction or another.
To me, it's not that you have black or white thinking, but you have a pretty clear idea of what it is you want and what you're trying to achieve. It's a good thing. To me that's saying that you're in touch with what your desires and goals are. At the same time, Racer, I've seen that you are open to ideas that will help you achieve your goals, even if they aren't what you originally had in mind. Yes, I'm biased, because I'm your friend. But I've seen it in action - we've gone shopping together.
Perhaps you can replay your conversation with your T with this in mind - she's trying to help you determine more closely what it is you're wanting to achieve with medication. And, I want to gently remind you that a T isn't the right person to make those recommendation unless they are also prescribing medications, right?
ClearSkies
Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2007, at 9:20:24
In reply to Black and white thinking -- did my T misfire?, posted by Racer on August 11, 2007, at 1:19:29
I agree on all points with Clearskies.
You have clear ideas about what you want, and you feel strongly about things, and that's what her examples show to me. What's wrong with thinking about things ahead of time, and forming conclusions? (Says the person who knows exactly what sort of car she'll be getting till she dies or they stop making it, and has a fair idea of a hierarchy of colors.)
And as Clearskies says, it sounds as if she was trying to point out her thoughts on meds more than anything, and used the black and white thinking idea to point out that you weren't considering what *she* thought was best. It seems like it would be more useful to just tell you what she was thinking. I'm pretty sure I can guess, and I'm pretty sure you can too.
Maybe you could ask her for some more examples. I think most everyone in the entire world occasionally engages in black and white thinking. And maybe there are a few issues that spring to mind for her. My therapist points out the areas where I do engage in black and white thinking without making it sound like a pervasive personality trait. It's more that on some issues, usually because of anxiety, it's hard for me to see any but the most extreme conclusions. While at other times I see so many shades of grey that I'm paralyzed by indecision.
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 12:39:13
In reply to Re: Black and white thinking -- did my T misfire? » Racer, posted by Dinah on August 11, 2007, at 9:20:24
Racer although as far as meds go I do sit on the fence but like when picking a car I just do it as if I have what I truly like I can handle something like a med change more easily. Does this make sense? You're the one who will drive it and it's a self-esteem thing to me. Love Phillipa
Posted by Racer on August 11, 2007, at 13:37:41
In reply to Re: Black and white thinking -- did my T misfire? » Racer, posted by ClearSkies on August 11, 2007, at 7:39:41
> And, I want to gently remind you that a T isn't the right person to make those recommendation unless they are also prescribing medications, right?
>
> ClearSkiesActually, that's the other place I think she misfired: I had to keep reminding her that I didn't need to decide on a medication with her -- I just wanted to identify my fears about the doctor, so that I could work on controlling them when I saw him. You know, instead of having a knee jerk panic attack in his office again.
And, if you'll remember, I didn't exactly make decisions while shopping -- at least not about that burgundy linen dress... ;-) (The kitten tried to climb it the other day, by the way...)
Thank you, darling. Sometimes I forget that it's OK to have opinions, even if they're strong ones. I forget that everything I do is *not* more evidence of my psychopathology...
Posted by Poet on August 12, 2007, at 12:12:10
In reply to Black and white thinking -- did my T misfire?, posted by Racer on August 11, 2007, at 1:19:29
Hi Racer,
My T regularly accuses me of black and white thinking as well as being stubborn as "an old mule." Being called stubborn doesn't bother me, being called a mule doesn't bother me, being called old bothers me, but anyway, I don't think that your liking a particular car is black and white thinking. It's as you said: a choice. It's not like if they stopped making Corollas you'd stop driving.
I would say that your T misfired on this one.
Poet
Posted by DAisym on August 14, 2007, at 0:38:35
In reply to Re: Black and white thinking -- did my T misfire? » Racer, posted by Poet on August 12, 2007, at 12:12:10
Not at my best right now but I want to weigh in...
I don't think you suffer from black or white thinking -- except that you *do* have sort of a black or white attitude about "thinking" -- every decision must be scrutinized to see if it reflects pathology or gives away an insecurity...or comes out of your history without awareness. I rarely see you do something "just" because you want to...except maybe that last pair of shoes. :)
I don't know if I'm being clear at all. I think your therapist missed it, but I kind of think she was trying to get you to look at your need to "do" something -- anything--the right thing-- in all situations. I'm like this too but it is kind of exhausting. At least I think so right now. And I'm saying this in my most gentle, reflective voice -- OK?
How did the appointment with Sir pdoc go?
Posted by Racer on August 15, 2007, at 19:30:27
In reply to Re: Black and white thinking -- did my T misfire?, posted by DAisym on August 14, 2007, at 0:38:35
My T is on vacation. We rescheduled my appointment for this week, since she's only here two days this week. I couldn't remember what time it was, so I called this morning and left a message asking what time?
She called back.
At least she admitted she screwed up. She didn't have me scheduled. I saw her put it into her palm, so it somehow got erased. This has happened before. Last time, I showed up for my rescheduled appointment, to find someone else there. Again, she admitted, she screwed up. That's one of her best qualities, that she'll admit when she screws up.
Anyway, it's left me feeling even worse.
Also, I feel like a coward, because I told her it was fine. It isn't fine. Why do I do that? I tell people it's OK, but it is NOT OK. I guess that's worth discussing when she gets back, huh?
Anyway, I'm going to go hide at the back of my cage for a while.
Posted by TherapyGirl on August 15, 2007, at 20:34:08
In reply to Well, this was certainly a misfire..., posted by Racer on August 15, 2007, at 19:30:27
Sorry, Racer. I totally get your frustration. And it wouldn't be okay with me, either. She should have done something to make it right.
Posted by RealMe on August 16, 2007, at 21:23:43
In reply to Well, this was certainly a misfire..., posted by Racer on August 15, 2007, at 19:30:27
This is the end of the thread.
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