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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by TherapyGirl on July 14, 2007, at 10:54:30
In reply to Re: he changed his chair!!!!, posted by Honore on July 14, 2007, at 10:30:26
You said that absolutely perfectly, Honore. This is a subject my T and I have grappled with over and over and she still doesn't seem to fully get it. Do you mind if I print your post out and show it to her?
Posted by sunnydays on July 14, 2007, at 11:12:51
In reply to Re: he changed his chair!!!!, posted by my-cup-of-tea on July 13, 2007, at 20:20:07
I see him next on Tuesday.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on July 14, 2007, at 11:20:41
In reply to Re: he changed his chair!!!! » sunnydays, posted by Racer on July 13, 2007, at 22:51:54
> Silly Sunny! If he's got a great new comfy chair, he's planning to stick around even longer! He's not going away, not if he's getting more comfortable there. That's a sign of staying, not going.
>**** But it means he's taking stuff home and moving stuff around, and I hate moving and everything like it. He's going to have to change offices in the next year or two (I might not be there in two years, but I would be definitely next year) and even thinking about it scares me. I rely on him and his office being the same every week because so much else in my life changes so much so often. I've never experienced reliableness. We think my mom might have borderline personality disorder, since the descriptions make me think someone took her and wrote her down, and my dad has definitely got elements of OCD, and my brother is bipolar. So I come from so much instability that even little changes throw me. I hate moving rooms, and I've had to change rooms every six months or so for the past seven years. Change just bugs me. It was soooo nice that he immediately got why it would bother me, though, when I wasn't even sure why it bothered me.
> But I do know what you mean. My T's shoes are what throw me. I don't mean that I think she's leaving -- I trust that she's going to stick around for another ten years, as she has said, or even longer. But she sits in a recliner, and I sit on a sofa, and mostly spend my sessions looking at the soles of her shoes. And when she wears different shoes, or gets a new pair -- it's very distracting! You'd think, considering her clientèle, that she'd know better than to make such changes when so many of us have OCD issues, on top of the rest!
>***** I would die if my T was in a recliner. I would be afraid he'd fall asleep! I'm already afraid of that in this new chair, that maybe it's too comfortable. Uggh... more to talk about.
> I hope you feel better soon. I'm sure your T will be there next time you go in -- after all, he wants his stone back.
***** I'm actually not sure he wants it back at all, but I'm pretending he does. :) But I know he'll be there - sort of.
Thanks,
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on July 14, 2007, at 11:24:02
In reply to Re: he changed his chair!!!! » sunnydays, posted by Dinah on July 13, 2007, at 22:56:44
> I don't blame you for being upset. At my therapist's first office, I was as attached to his office as much as I was to him. Probably more. If something moved an inch out of place, it would bug me. When he got rid of his carpet, admittedly well worn, it distressed me for weeks. That's what I did during session. Imagined pretend balls rolling into the curlicues of that carpet.
**** I freaked when he changed his carpet a while ago. I never told him about that. But I've gotten used to it, so I think I even like it now. It looks much nicer in his office and still has that comfortable feel. And when the plant disappeared... I made sure to get an explanation, although I never told him why about that either.
>
> In the past few years we've met in so dratted many places, good and bad, that I find my therapeutic space in his presence now.**** I would think that would be true for me. But I never expected something like this would throw me this much.
>
> I'm surprised he didn't realize it would upset you. Therapists have the strangest ideas.**** Well, I think that because he's made some rather dramatic changes before and I haven't said it bothered me that it wouldn't occur to him. But he got it right away as soon as I said it, at least.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on July 14, 2007, at 11:28:00
In reply to Re: he changed his chair!!!!, posted by Honore on July 14, 2007, at 10:30:26
> I was devastated. I was so devastated esp. about the rug. It was this oatmeal shag carpet-- pretty beaten down-- but so comforting and warm. I made the whole room have character and sweetness-- a kind of innocence and darkish fuzziness. And he took it out and but in this industrial blue horror. I'm not joking about how upset I was. I felt as though he took away things that really helped me feel at home, and replaced them with cold, imperson mean things.
**** I can so see that. I got upset when he replaced his rug, but I never mentioned it to him. I think I like the new rug better now anyway.
>
> I kept talking about it until he got mad. (He gets mad more easily then most-- but I might have been getting on his nerves, because I couldn't accept the changes.) I still regret them-- and haven't ever felt that comfortable in his office. But I try to ignore the surroundings. I guess he has to do what he wants-- but I miss the old, simple kind furniture.**** I'm surprised he got mad. I would think you should be able to talk about it as much as you wanted. A change like that is a big deal.
>
> It's really shocking when you connect to the things in the environment as a stabilizing force-- as a permanent element that supports you and makes you feel-- as I said-- at home-- even when things are hard.
>**** Yeah. Just when I had everything memorized and could see it in my mind whenever I wanted, he had to go and change it!
> I'm very prone to that-- things make a big difference to my sense of presence and acceptance. So I really think it's awfully hard when a T changes chairs, or couches-- it takes away something that was a sustaining presence in ways that sometimes they don't realize.
>**** Yeah. Luckily, I think my T gets it now. And it was so sweet of him to ask if it was ok if he kept it the way it was.
sunnydays
Posted by Racer on July 14, 2007, at 11:40:07
In reply to Re: he changed his chair!!!!, posted by sunnydays on July 14, 2007, at 11:20:41
> >
> ***** I would die if my T was in a recliner. I would be afraid he'd fall asleep! I'm already afraid of that in this new chair, that maybe it's too comfortable. Uggh... more to talk about.
>A T I saw many, many years ago -- nearly 20, now -- did fall asleep in a session with me. At the time, I felt a huge upset and resentment, but didn't say anything about it. Just went away upset, hurt, ashamed, feeling about an inch tall. NOT a good situation.
My current T, though, is always too obviously engaged when we're in session. And, 20 years on, with this T, I think I could talk about it if it happened. But, I also trust that it won't happen.
Damn. Now I'm thinking about it. Now I'm maybe going to end up having to say something to her about it, warn her even...
But the old T also f*rted once in session, and it was very stinky, and I didn't mention that, either... Maybe that evened the score...
Posted by raisinb on July 14, 2007, at 11:48:31
In reply to funny you should mention that... » sunnydays, posted by Racer on July 14, 2007, at 11:40:07
Man, I sympathize. For me, it's when my T wears different colored contacts. Doesn't she get how disconcerting it is when her eye color changes?
Posted by Maria01 on July 14, 2007, at 12:42:25
In reply to he changed his chair!!!!, posted by sunnydays on July 13, 2007, at 19:35:18
I think my situation is a little different. My ex-T worked in an agency that saw a lot of children/families. The room she used had a rocking chair, stuffed animals, dollhouse stuff, you name it. I felt like I was in a toddler's bedroom. I'm not a kid person(don't crucify me, but it's the truth) so spending two hours a week in what looked like a kid's bedroom was disconcerting, to say the least. I commented once or twice and let it drop, because I have no say or control in how they choose to decorate..it's none of my business.
After a week's break, the room had been re-decorated wtih less emphasis on kiddie stuff. It had a very soothing Asian influence. The kiddie props were still there, but not as obvious as before. I LOVED the new decor. Loved it, loved it!
My present T has an office that she shares with another T...it's very nice. I don't think I would be too thrown if she changed it up; she's the one that has to sit in there day after day, so her work environment is up to her, IMO
Posted by DAisym on July 14, 2007, at 13:06:41
In reply to Re: he changed his chair!!!! » Honore, posted by sunnydays on July 14, 2007, at 11:28:00
The flip side is that when my therapist was getting new furniture, about a year into my therapy, he warned me that I might feel upset, unsettled, or a bunch of other things. I was so insulted that he thought a "little" thing like the furniture change would upset me. I even posted about it!!
umm...he was right. It took awhile but I'm used to it now.
I'm guessing with his recent surgery/injury (didn't he hurt his back?) that he needed something different.
I'm glad you were able to talk to him about your feelings. Another sign of growing trust. Good for you.
Posted by confuzyq on July 14, 2007, at 15:37:34
In reply to Re: he changed his chair!!!! » sunnydays, posted by DAisym on July 14, 2007, at 13:06:41
Hi and sorry to change the subject! I've never stuck with any T long but plan to take another shot at finding the right one soon. They all do seem to have a couch (or a choice), but apparently few clients tend to recline on them. I've actually asked, then not felt at ease doing so if they say most don't.
Some have had layouts to where even if I did go ahead and recline on the couch, the person would be directly facing me as I layed there, or I'd have to put my back to them to avoid that, which would feel weird. Where are all the classic movie set couch & chair layouts??
I feel like I might be more committed if some days I could not face the person directly or at all as I speak, like when my self-consciousness is acting up. And sometimes I can access my thoughts better that way. Anyone else make use of the whole couch and find it helpful?
Posted by Maria01 on July 14, 2007, at 15:48:03
In reply to Re: Anyone use/prefer laying on couch?, posted by confuzyq on July 14, 2007, at 15:37:34
My ex-t would try to get me to do that from time to time. I would refuse on the grounds that a) she's wasn't a trained psychoanalyst, so why would she insist on behaving like one! and b) I prefer face-to-face interaction. She only asked once to twice before dropping the subject altogether.
Posted by Honore on July 14, 2007, at 22:55:55
In reply to Re: Anyone use/prefer laying on couch?, posted by confuzyq on July 14, 2007, at 15:37:34
My T has a couch, which other people use (I asked).
I've used it sometimes-- if only because I"m so tired, I almost couldn't resist lying down. After I did that a few times, I got into the custom of using it at different periods of time. I've done it because it does help with following my own thoughts. There are so many fewer external distractions, both things in the room, and, more importantly, the expression on my T;s face. Even just seeing him can create the pressure of keeping a conversation with someone going.
So it's much easier to tolerate long silences-- when I'm thinking, or, more so, when he is. I don't feel as much need to interrupt the silences after I say something-- if he doesn't respond right away--or anxiety about what's going on in his mind. Somehow I can feel that sometimes he's thinking about what I've said, and if I just keep on talking, I won't get the benefit of whatever he might be connecting to.
It's definitely more conducive to my following my own trains of emotion, and making connections--again because I"m not seeing his reaction, or looking for it. But I've been seeing my T for a long time. I would have felt uncomfortable earlier-- but now it seems natural and not at all strange.
On the other hand, direct emotional and visual contact isn't possible. For some reason, I often feel a sense of isolation or disconnection without being able to see my T, so I generally sit up.
Honore
Posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2007, at 23:41:12
In reply to funny you should mention that... » sunnydays, posted by Racer on July 14, 2007, at 11:40:07
Racer, that f*rt story made me laugh!!!!!
Thanks!
LadyBug
Posted by OzLand on July 14, 2007, at 23:45:08
In reply to Re: Anyone use/prefer laying on couch?, posted by Honore on July 14, 2007, at 22:55:55
I said in a post higher up on another thread regarding fees, etc, that my analyst wants me to use the couch, but I have resisted. I feel like I need to see his face even though I look down at the floor a lot. On the couch with him behind me just feels too threatening right now what with all the abuse isses and him being my therapist now for not even three months yet.
Posted by Honore on July 15, 2007, at 0:01:31
In reply to Re: Anyone use/prefer laying on couch? » Honore, posted by OzLand on July 14, 2007, at 23:45:08
Your feelings about the couch make a lot of sense to me, Ozland. Just in terms of familiarity and trust-- comfort and connection-- I completely understand your not wanting to try the couch. I'd be surprised if your new T wouldn't understand and accept that, especially with your history, and the things you've been through.
I always needed to see a T's face in the past. The sense of presence, continuity, and stability-- that he hadn't disappeared, that he wasn't upset or angry-- was extremely important. I can't imagine it would have been anything other than disturbing-- until rather recently, really, when my T and I have reached a much deeper connection and closeness.
Maybe your T is so used to having patients on the couch, that he's somewhat forgotten how dislocating it can be to someone who isn't used to it-- or who has pressing reasons to need more direct contact. And you do hardly know him-- so even if later you'd be interested in it, it's very early to test it out.
I'm sure you know how important it is to establish that he won't pressure you to do things you don't want to-- that he can adapt to your limits; I hope he can in a way that makes it easy for you to feel as if you don't have to fight for safety.
Honore
Posted by OzLand on July 15, 2007, at 1:41:58
In reply to Re: Anyone use/prefer laying on couch? » OzLand, posted by Honore on July 15, 2007, at 0:01:31
My therapist suggested it as something to consider as I had trouble looking at him, and he thought I might feel more comfortable on the couch. Since he knows me a little better now, he doesn't even bring it up. I am not concerned he would disappear or anything like that, it has more to do with trust and fears related to not so much the sexual abuse I endured, but the physical abuse and fears of death that I would not wake up the next morning because I would be killed in my sleep. I have this fantasy of him sneaking up behind me and trying to choke me to death.
In fact it is both uncomfortable seeing his face and trying to read his facial expression and comforting to know he is not scowling at me as my previous therapist would do sometimes. As it is I mostly look at the floor, but at least he is in front of me and not behind me. I have been feeling more trusting of him, however, and so maybe in a couple of months, I will feel okay about the couch, and then he will say not yet!!! I can just see it.
Posted by annierose on July 15, 2007, at 8:31:21
In reply to Re: Anyone use/prefer laying on couch? » Honore, posted by OzLand on July 15, 2007, at 1:41:58
I use the couch all the time. In fact, I now find it more uncomfortable sitting up. All of Honore's feelings about the couch feel true for me as well. Silences are easier to tolerate, I'm able to focus on my thoughts without distraction (since I close my eyes) and therefore feelings bubble to the surface easier.
My t sits sideways to me - 4 (?) feet from my head - so she is able to notice and respond to my facial expressions so I always know that she is listening. Sometimes I am amazed that she is able to notice surprised, shocked, angry, funny, etc. expressions. "What's are you thinking about that is so funny?" And I wonder, how did she know? I wasn't smiling or anything.
On the other hand, sometimes I forget what she looks like. I barely look at her, even when she comes to get me out of the waiting room, and rarely during a session. I can sit up at any time (even during a session) but then looking at her feels uncomfortable ... too much pressure.
What does it have to so difficult?
Posted by confuzyq on July 15, 2007, at 9:06:50
In reply to Re: Anyone use/prefer laying on couch?, posted by annierose on July 15, 2007, at 8:31:21
Thanks everyone, it's very interesting hearing the different factors that go into what's comfortable for different people. I don't even know what the original rationale behind the couch is.
I probably wouldn't want to do it from day one either, and would definitely always want to have a choice. But some days I am just so opposed to facing anyone, that on those days I'd most likely cancel otherwise, or try to turn it into a phone appointment. (Occasionally I even feel some kind of BDD-type thing about my face, like it is changing and morphing right in front of someone's eyes, and I can't think of anything besides that.)
That's all stuff that in itself I obviously need to learn to overcome, but I figure I'll get farther towards that if I begin by doing all I can make sure I keep my appointments!
Posted by sunnydays on July 15, 2007, at 10:06:13
In reply to funny you should mention that... » sunnydays, posted by Racer on July 14, 2007, at 11:40:07
>
> A T I saw many, many years ago -- nearly 20, now -- did fall asleep in a session with me. At the time, I felt a huge upset and resentment, but didn't say anything about it. Just went away upset, hurt, ashamed, feeling about an inch tall. NOT a good situation.**** I'm not sure if I would be able to say anything either.
> Damn. Now I'm thinking about it. Now I'm maybe going to end up having to say something to her about it, warn her even...
>**** Sorry to put the idea in your head! I'm sure your T won't fall asleep. You said so yourself!
> But the old T also f*rted once in session, and it was very stinky, and I didn't mention that, either... Maybe that evened the score...
*** That's funny.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on July 15, 2007, at 10:07:29
In reply to Re: funny you should mention that..., posted by raisinb on July 14, 2007, at 11:48:31
Wow, I can see how changing eye color would be disconcerting! Once my T was trying to get me more grounded in the room and he asked me what color his eyes were. I couldn't see so he leaned forward. I'm still not sure! I said gray then, but maybe they're more hazel or blue... tricky eye color.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on July 15, 2007, at 10:11:16
In reply to Re: he changed his chair!!!!, posted by Maria01 on July 14, 2007, at 12:42:25
> I think my situation is a little different. My ex-T worked in an agency that saw a lot of children/families. The room she used had a rocking chair, stuffed animals, dollhouse stuff, you name it. I felt like I was in a toddler's bedroom. I'm not a kid person(don't crucify me, but it's the truth) so spending two hours a week in what looked like a kid's bedroom was disconcerting, to say the least. I commented once or twice and let it drop, because I have no say or control in how they choose to decorate..it's none of my business.
***** Well... I kind of think it is your business. If it bothers you and could get in the way of your therapy, then I think it matters. Obviously I don't expect my T to change decor because of me, but I do think it's fair that I talk about how it affects me. I mean, it was disconcerting enough that I had trouble talking...
>
> After a week's break, the room had been re-decorated wtih less emphasis on kiddie stuff. It had a very soothing Asian influence. The kiddie props were still there, but not as obvious as before. I LOVED the new decor. Loved it, loved it!**** Again, something I think you could say if you wanted to.
>
> My present T has an office that she shares with another T...it's very nice. I don't think I would be too thrown if she changed it up; she's the one that has to sit in there day after day, so her work environment is up to her, IMO***** I agree that my T can decorate however he wants. And his office is VERY decorated. I love it. He has all sorts of little knicknacks and stuff to look at. But I can't really help being thrown by it. I sort of use the image of his office to comfort myself sometimes, so having it change is hard because then I have to memorize it all over again. But you probably have different issues that you're working on than me, so it wouldn't bother you as much.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on July 15, 2007, at 10:14:49
In reply to Re: he changed his chair!!!! » sunnydays, posted by DAisym on July 14, 2007, at 13:06:41
> The flip side is that when my therapist was getting new furniture, about a year into my therapy, he warned me that I might feel upset, unsettled, or a bunch of other things. I was so insulted that he thought a "little" thing like the furniture change would upset me. I even posted about it!!
**** I kind of remember that. I think I would feel cared about myself, just because I know I would be thrown by it.
>
> umm...he was right. It took awhile but I'm used to it now.**** That's good. Gives me hope I'll get used to it too. The problem is it looks an awful lot like this chair we have at home, and so it keeps turning into that chair in my head.
>
> I'm guessing with his recent surgery/injury (didn't he hurt his back?) that he needed something different.
>**** I don't think that's it actually. At the beginning of the session he said that they were having an estate sale near his house and the second day everything was half off. So he got the chair for $30. And he said he's always wanted a leather chair for his office. I remember him saying something about that a long time ago, I think, too.
> I'm glad you were able to talk to him about your feelings. Another sign of growing trust. Good for you.
**** I wish it felt better than it does. But thank you.
sunnydays
>
Posted by sunnydays on July 15, 2007, at 10:16:14
In reply to Re: Anyone use/prefer laying on couch?, posted by confuzyq on July 14, 2007, at 15:37:34
Well that classic set-up is more typical of psychoanalysis, so I wouldn't expect that movie set-up except in a trained psychoanalyst's office, or maybe a very psychoanalytically-oriented psychodynamic therapist. I think my T is more humanistic - he's a social worker.
sunnydays
Posted by Maria01 on July 15, 2007, at 12:33:24
In reply to Re: he changed his chair!!!!, posted by sunnydays on July 15, 2007, at 10:11:16
In a way, working in the kid-style office was good. It really tested how much I was willing to let outside distractions interfere with what I was doing. In the end, I didn't let it get to me. =) Sure, it was a little sticky-sweet for my taste, but I wasn't there for the decor. I was there for therapy, and while it was a challenge to not let the setting distract me, it was a good challenge. You are right in saying that most likely our concerns and issues are different, so others might be more affected by office decor than I....
Fortunately, I did get a chance to comment on the new decor. My ex-T did remark that she liked it a lot better, too. she got the most feedback from some of the male clients; they had remarked by re-docration made the room less "girly" =)
My aunt is a retired clinical psychologist. I was the office manager for her practice many years ago. I guess that's where I would see things from the therapist's point of view in terms of having to spend hours in one room vs. the clients having to spend 1-2 hours a week...it did give me a lot of perspective..
Posted by Dinah on July 15, 2007, at 15:57:58
In reply to Re: funny you should mention that..., posted by raisinb on July 14, 2007, at 11:48:31
I spent nine or ten years in therapy convinced that not only were his eyes brown, but large and puppy dogish. I think I didn't figure out they weren't particularly large and they were quite blue until I had a picture of him.
Sad to say I wouldn't even notice any changes in his own appearance. :) His office, yes. Him, no.
I did notice when he shaved off his truly awful beard.
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