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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gazo on April 10, 2007, at 18:00:31
ignore me if you want, i'm trying to stay occupied.
i understand, even if don't agree with, the possible problems of sexual or romantic contact and relationships with T's. But what would be so wrong with friendship? especially casual social contact? Wouldn't it really depend on the T and the client?
i have met my pdoc in social situations and we chat and stuff. No big deal. He talks about himself with me. i know a lot about him. i think it made the relationship stronger. i mean, it made him less magical or mysterious, it made him just a nice guy. It also meant i felt he was more sincere.
so while a T and a client are in mid-process, maybe it would be harder... but what would be the problem with say, my former T and i having a coffee if we ran into each other somewhere?
HF's thing about her T made me think about this. i find the relationship set-up of therapy very unnatural and hard to deal with. i think bumping into her T outside, as a human being, is a great thing.
Posted by Honore on April 10, 2007, at 20:31:02
In reply to what would be so wrong...???, posted by gazo on April 10, 2007, at 18:00:31
The problem is usually dealt with under the category of "boundaries." Having clearly defined boundaries is not usual in most human relationships outisde of therapy. Also not usual, and connected to well-defined and limited boundaries is a certain special kind of caring and attentiveness, and an unusual kind of putting aside of self-interest to further the interest of the patient-- also not an aspect of casual or friendly human relationships.
There s particular requirement of guardianship and concern, and a corresponding limit on the types and places of interaction, which safeguards both patient and therapist and permits this special relationship to exist outisde of the usual discontinuities and disruptions of everyday casual friendships and acquainceships.
Getting to know your T casually, or socially, raise all sorts of problems, such as unequal desire for a degree of amount of contact, privacy and confidentiality issues, and many others.
It strikes me as a desire that might lead to disappointments, rejections, misunderstandings, and the loss of the protection of the really important work that therapy makes possible.
So I dont' think it's a good idea to have casual cups of coffee with Ts. Perhaps there are some Ts who allow such relationships, but it cou ld very well inhibit, or even prevent the type of intensive working together that's most helpful when that type of contact is avoided.
Honore
Posted by gazo on April 10, 2007, at 21:45:32
In reply to Re: what would be so wrong...??? » gazo, posted by Honore on April 10, 2007, at 20:31:02
hmmm... i don't know if i agree with that. As i said, i know my pdoc more as a whole person. i see him socially, not often but i have had it happen. i also know he corresponds with former patients from years ago. It seems to work very well. When we're in his office there is a different set of "rules." i know when i'm there the situation is different. It's like a GP.. if i see her at the grocery store i'm not going to ask her to look at a rash. So if i ran into my old T, i wouldn't go into that stuff either.
i see my pdoc tomorrow. love the guy. he is cool.It's a great relationship. i just do not see why it can't just be that way with all of them.
Posted by Honore on April 10, 2007, at 21:46:41
In reply to Re: what would be so wrong...??? » Honore, posted by gazo on April 10, 2007, at 21:45:32
Are you doing therapy with your pdoc?
Honore
Posted by sunnydays on April 10, 2007, at 21:52:14
In reply to Re: what would be so wrong...??? » Honore, posted by gazo on April 10, 2007, at 21:45:32
I was wondering what you mean by seeing him socially? I see my T every once in a while around campus (every few months or so) and he makes a point of saying hi and chatting for a minute or two. I don't consider that social, it's just a way of recognizing that I'm still important to him even if we aren't in the four walls of his office. It's more maintaining the continuity of our professional relationship. And I'm sure he is ethical enough that he would never sit down and eat his meal with me when we run into each other at the cafeteria or something. It's just sort of a passing thing.
sunnydays
Posted by gazo on April 10, 2007, at 22:14:27
In reply to Re: what would be so wrong...???, posted by Honore on April 10, 2007, at 21:46:41
not in a strict sense honore, but i see him for an hour at a time, generally every month but sometimes more often than that and we talk about whatever i need to.
Posted by gazo on April 10, 2007, at 22:19:47
In reply to Re: what would be so wrong...???, posted by sunnydays on April 10, 2007, at 21:52:14
by socially, i mean at a social event... like a reception for example. i used to see him a lot more than i do now because my circle has changed. i see him in passing as well sometimes. i know his wife through the same circles. i generally don't think about it... it certainly hasn't caused any issue i know of.
Posted by muffled on April 10, 2007, at 23:13:09
In reply to what would be so wrong...???, posted by gazo on April 10, 2007, at 18:00:31
I dunno Gazo, thats a toughie.
I guess it depends on what kind of therapy you doing.
And really to me it makes sense that the boundaries are the boundaries everywhere. They are a BIG part what keeps therapy SAFE enough to get into the deeper stuff.
If the boundaries are wrong, then a client may worry too much bout how the T feels bout her, or how she's feeling bout T, and that just messes stuff up.
I think boundaries are hugely underestimated by some, in their importance.
As for a former T?
I dunno. Depends if there's any possibility of a power imbalance I guess.....
There's always exceptions to every rule, but at the same time, there are painful reasons for those rules existing in the first place.....
Best wishes to you gazo.
Muffled
Posted by raisinb on April 12, 2007, at 11:31:51
In reply to what would be so wrong...???, posted by gazo on April 10, 2007, at 18:00:31
I have been thinking about this lately in a different context, and I think it's kind of about trust. Once you start really trusting your therapist, you can believe that s/he is making those decisions carefully, and choosing the right boundaries for you. It's not necessarily that certain actions are always "wrong," (outside of sex, etc.) but that Ts have to be very careful about choosing what to do for a particular client.
Sometimes I read these and I'm REALLY jealous of people who have heard "I love you" and gotten hugs from Ts. But I also suspect (well, sometimes ;)) that my T is protecting my best interests and choosing the right boundaries for our relationship is part of that, if that makes sense.
Posted by gazo on April 12, 2007, at 19:45:40
In reply to Re: what would be so wrong...???, posted by raisinb on April 12, 2007, at 11:31:51
part of my question really is about casual social interaction with a *former* T. i mean, i can understand why a current t would need different boundaries.
but i am thinking that part of my question is just wondering out loud if maybe there is a different way in which therapy could be done. What if things were changed entirely? What if therapy was done via emersion into a sort of community atmosphere?
i'm not talking about having it fit into current practices at all. i'm just thinking that maybe an approach which was more whole person, less exclusive and more intagrative would work better. Isn't half the trouble we face is the world outside that office? Well imagine if some of the process was outside of that office!
imagine if T's could be more open and sharing because the relationship would not be in the same format.
just day dreaming. i'd settle for coffee with my old T
Posted by Honore on April 12, 2007, at 20:06:46
In reply to Re: what would be so wrong...???, posted by gazo on April 12, 2007, at 19:45:40
what would any of us feel if we saw our current or former T having lunch or coffee with another current or former P, when, in some way, we weren't privy to that sort of relationship?
There are so many ways that these situations could involve a lot of hurt and damage to many people, which is why there are prohibitions and taboos against relationships currently and even after T has terminated.
Honore
Posted by anneke3 on April 13, 2007, at 7:13:47
In reply to Re: what would be so wrong...???, posted by gazo on April 12, 2007, at 19:45:40
I have had coffee with my former therapist when I was back in town after moving away. (I'm currently in t with a new therapist). It was really nice...very human and very much catching up on "normal things"...her house renovation, my kids, books we were both enjoying, etc.
I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing...there are just so many things that go into the decision and we had talked about it beforehand, whether or not I was connected enough to my current t to let go of the therapeutic attachment with the former one, etc. For me, it was great...it honored the work we did and let me stay in touch with someone who is really, really important to me.
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