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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Poet on March 23, 2007, at 12:18:42
I got rejected for two out of three jobs, and I don't expect to ever hear back from the first one. I had three interviews at the one place- three. Yes, that's good, wow, I am so very special, B.S. if I was so good and so very special I'd get the job. Not get rejected.
Today, I told my T, I will not be a failure at 50, and she said, so it's *success or you off yourself?* I said, *exactly.* She said, *I meant A or B, which is your choice?* I said if *I don't get A then I do B.*
She told me that if I did it, she would be very hurt and would miss me. We talked a bit about that and I know she is being genuine. She looked at when my birthday is, too, I don't think she just happened to grab a file folder and look inside it for no reason.
I can't take job hunting, I can't take interviewing, I can't get disability because I am capable of working. This is all such a big ugly joke on me.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on March 23, 2007, at 13:08:29
In reply to It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER, posted by Poet on March 23, 2007, at 12:18:42
Poet, I'm so sorry. Putting yourself out there in job hunting is like putting yourself out there in dating. It's one of the hardest things in the world, and it hurts not to be the chosen one.
I wish there was something I could say to make it easier.
I know you know this, and I almost hate to mention it again, but you're defining success and failure far too narrowly. You will not be a failure at fifty because you aren't a failure now.
Even the people who are most successful at careers are not necessarily successful in other areas of their lives, and I'm sure you can think of a few successes that seem anything but.
And I'm sure you don't judge harshly other people who aren't wildly successful career wise, if they are kind and decent people and successful in all the ways that really matter.
You're intelligent, you have stamina that I can only dream of, you get called back many times. Chances are inordinately good that you will find the right job. But your success or failure to me won't depend on that. I'll be happy because you're happy, but you'll still be the same Poet I care about.
That being said, how about a sharp cyber-boot-in-the-rear to human resource types who fail to see the worth so obvious to those of us here.
Posted by scratchpad on March 23, 2007, at 15:52:51
In reply to It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER, posted by Poet on March 23, 2007, at 12:18:42
I was at my worst when I decided to stop working. I had down-graded from each short job to the next and was more stressed than I'd ever been. I quit before they could fire me, Poet. Really, they made me that offer; if I left right then and there, that they'd consider me as given and served a week's notice. Just to get my messed up self out of their office.
((((Poet))))
Posted by gazo on March 23, 2007, at 18:32:03
In reply to It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER, posted by Poet on March 23, 2007, at 12:18:42
i am so very sorry this is so hard. i may be looking for work by next week too. :( i wish i knew what to say to help.
Posted by Racer on March 23, 2007, at 19:41:38
In reply to It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER, posted by Poet on March 23, 2007, at 12:18:42
I care about you a great deal, and don't think you're anything like a failure.
I also think Dinah is right about you defining yourself by your job. You are not your job, you're not what you do, you're a fully formed human being, with many qualities that have nothing to do with employment.
It may not mean anything much to you, but I always feel pretty darn good after contact with you. Personally, I think having other people feel that way after contact with me would be a success in my book. See -- A success in my life. There's not just one, you know.
M---u thinks you're a success -- you can open cans, after all. So does C----R----e. So does your SO.
And so does some crazy lady to the west of you.
Posted by Daisym on March 24, 2007, at 0:47:14
In reply to It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER, posted by Poet on March 23, 2007, at 12:18:42
(((Poet)))
As someone who is totally invested in her work-self, I completely understand what you've written. (I want to know when you are 50 but I'm going to be polite and not ask.) I sort of set a deadline for a few of my own problems -- somehow May seemed reasonable. It probably isn't the right answer, for me or for you, but I understand the need to have an answer and way out.
All that said, what about changing careers? If something isn't working, maybe something else would. Is there anything you've always wanted to do?
And I agree with Dinah and Racer. You are so much more than the work you do or don't do. I hope someone sees in you what we recognize so clearly here.
hugs,
Daisy
Posted by canadagirl on March 24, 2007, at 8:04:21
In reply to It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER, posted by Poet on March 23, 2007, at 12:18:42
I am so sorry to hear and it's very discouraging. Is there anyone you could do a mock interview with, who could help you with anything you or they feel is not coming across the way you'd like it? Don't give up. The rule of thumb is it takes a month of 9-5 job hunting, every day, resumes sending out, etc. interviewing, getting rejected and going through the cycle again, for every $10,000 you want to make. So if you are targeting for example 30k, imagine you have to put that much time and effort in. Plus deal with depression or whatever is going on in your life. So it is hard, extra hard. You are clearly doing something right to get 3 interviews. Don't give up.
Posted by Poet on March 24, 2007, at 13:22:57
In reply to Re: It's time to give up in more ways than one TRI » Poet, posted by Dinah on March 23, 2007, at 13:08:29
Hi Dinah,
There's nothing you can say (or do for that matter) to make this easier.
I don't judge other people who aren't successes career wise because I don't know if they've tried and failed as many times as I have. I've gone back to school, twice, I've talked to career counselors, I have head hunters. I try and try and fail harder each time.
Chances are not that I will get a job that I want, chances are I will end up in another mindless low paying job where I go to my car and cry everyday. That's what I can't face anymore, I just can't.
Thank you for saying my being a success or failure to you doesn't depend on my getting the right job, and for thinking I'm intelligent. I wish I could think something good about myself, but any positive thoughts are long gone.
Poet
Posted by Poet on March 24, 2007, at 13:28:57
In reply to Re: It's time to give up in more ways than one TRI » Poet, posted by scratchpad on March 23, 2007, at 15:52:51
Hi Scratchpad,
Economically I have to work, my unemployment barely contributes to the household expenses and when it runs out I know I will get stuck in another horrible job that I will hate.
I've quit before I was fired, too. In 1999 and in 2004. More failure.
I'm sorry you can identify with my situation, but I appreciate your understanding.
Poet
Posted by Poet on March 24, 2007, at 13:30:24
In reply to Re: It's time to give up in more ways than one TRI, posted by gazo on March 23, 2007, at 18:32:03
Hi Gazo,
Don't feel bad about not knowing what to say to help, honestly, there is nothing anyone can do to help me. I am beyond all help when it comes to a job.
I hope you don't lose your job, I wouldn't wish job hunting on anyone.
Poet
Posted by Poet on March 24, 2007, at 13:38:59
In reply to I've already said this today, but... » Poet, posted by Racer on March 23, 2007, at 19:41:38
Hi Racer,
I'm glad that some crazy lady out west of me sees some success in me, because I sure don't. It does mean something to be that you feel good after contact with me. Right now I can't see the forest for all the burnt down dead stumps.
Thank you for being you.
Poet
Posted by gazo on March 24, 2007, at 13:43:38
In reply to Re: It's time to give up in more ways than one TRI » Dinah, posted by Poet on March 24, 2007, at 13:22:57
i am sorry it's so hard. :(
one thing about trying and not getting what you had hoped for is that you grow and learn. I know it doesn't pay the bills but i know plenty of vacuous ding-a-lings who lucked out. They might have decent jobs or other things I wish I had, but i wouldn't call them successful as people. After all, all we have in this life is our experiences. I am sorry that right now those experiences are painful for you.. everything changes though. What has happened in the past does not necessarily predict what will happen in the future.
i'm sorry... i hope this doesn't sound preachy or weird. Just trying to help.
i haven't been here long but you seem to be very caring and articulate. Those are not dumb luck.. they take growth and work to cultivate.. and you have done so... successfully.
ok.. i'll go away now. Hope you have a better day.
Posted by Poet on March 24, 2007, at 13:49:00
In reply to Re: It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER » Poet, posted by Daisym on March 24, 2007, at 0:47:14
Hi Daisy,
I'm keeping my birthday to myself, all I'll say is it's after the APA meeting in San Diego and before January 1.
I've tried changing careers, I'll babblemail you my career history, I don't want it posted because if anybody knew the real me they'd recognize it.
I completely understand your setting that deadline, no, it probably isn't the right answer for either of us, but I don't see any alternatives anymore.
I wish someone would see in me what you recognize, but my job history says otherwise. I know it's foolish to base my self esteem on something I cannot obtain, but I never said I wasn't a fool.
Poet
Posted by Poet on March 24, 2007, at 13:49:32
In reply to Re: It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER » Poet, posted by canadagirl on March 24, 2007, at 8:04:21
Posted by Poet on March 24, 2007, at 13:57:06
In reply to Re: It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER » Poet, posted by canadagirl on March 24, 2007, at 8:04:21
Hi Canadagirl,
I've been through this too many times to continue to endure the rejection. What really did me in was turning down a temp to hire job that my headhunter called me about because I had that morning of job shadowing scheduled and couldn't start the temp job the next day. She placed someone else in it and now has nothing for me.
I was an idiot to think I'd get that job, even after three interviews. My track record is interview and rejection going back to about 1983.
Poet
Posted by Racer on March 24, 2007, at 14:10:57
In reply to Re: It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER, posted by Poet on March 24, 2007, at 13:49:00
>
> I wish someone would see in me what you recognize, but my job history says otherwise. I know it's foolish to base my self esteem on something I cannot obtain, but I never said I wasn't a fool.
>
> PoetNo, Sweetheart -- I think it's hurtful to base your self-esteem on something you can't CONTROL. You can obtain more than you believe right now -- but you can't control what other people do. And job hunting involves other people, who have all the control. You can't change the past, and the past is likely to influence those other people.
So, what do you do? That I can't tell you. I'll bet your T has some suggestions, though.
When I was a teenager, when I got back from a date my mother always asked me, "Did he like you?" I was probably 30 before it occurred to me to ask if *I* liked *HIM.* I think you're doing the same thing right now -- you're focused on how someone else reacts to you, and neglecting how you feel, about yourself and about the rest of the world. I know you think you know how you feel about yourself, but you know what? You're only experiencing yourself based on how you believe others are seeing you. You don't really know how others see you. You can only guess, and you're making your guess from a binary system: "Did they hire me or not?" How do you know that someone didn't hire you because your intelligence, insight, and attractive appearance intimidated them? I've seen pictures, and while I know you don't believe it, you're a beautiful woman. I've had my own experience of you, and you're smart, funny, witty (they're different things), insightful, and informed. Those are pretty damned intimidating for a lot of people out there.
My precious friend, you're worth so much more than you offer yourself. Maybe if you could offer more of it to yourself, you'd get more from outside, too. It's worth trying.
And I send you my warmest, most sympathetic affection. I'm sorry they didn't recognize your stellar shine. You are a star.
Posted by Happyflower on March 24, 2007, at 14:18:18
In reply to Sorry, I disagree with you » Poet, posted by Racer on March 24, 2007, at 14:10:57
(((((Poet))))))
Racer said it all. You are a star, many believe that, we wish you would.
Posted by Poet on March 24, 2007, at 17:00:35
In reply to Sorry, I disagree with you » Poet, posted by Racer on March 24, 2007, at 14:10:57
Hi Racer,
I agree that it is hurtful to base my self esteem on something that I cannot control. The negative part of me says, eh, so what I hurt myself in many ways what's another?
No, I don't believe I'm beautiful, inside or outside. I'm a fading star, if I'm a star at all, though I thank you for seeing things in me that I cannot. I do value your opinion, because you are intelligent and insightful, and I'll bet you deny both of those. See, how hard it is to not look in the mirror and see the ugly witch? And the mirror is cracked because I looked in it...
I think what your mother would say about you in regards to the guys you dated was just plain rotten. My mother, oddly enough, was the opposite: *are you sure about him?* Then again, she loves and spoils my brother, so I'm not sure I can trust her in regards to relationships.
You wrote: My precious friend, you're worth so much more than you offer yourself. Maybe if you could offer more of it to yourself, you'd get more from outside, too. It's worth trying.
That made me cry and you know how much I hate crying. Thank you for being my friend, and for believing in me. I just believe in anything positive right now, it's okay to believe for me. Maybe I'll pick up the vibes.
Poet
Posted by Poet on March 24, 2007, at 17:02:04
In reply to Re: Sorry, I disagree with you, posted by Happyflower on March 24, 2007, at 14:18:18
Hi Happyflower,
Thank you for believing in me. I told Racer that if I am a star, I am a falling star. I just can't believe good about myself right now.
Poet
Posted by canadagirl on March 24, 2007, at 18:40:25
In reply to Re: It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER » canadagirl, posted by Poet on March 24, 2007, at 13:57:06
So, you're saying you had a temp job that was temp-to-perm, that you turned down for the job shadowing. That says right there, that someone was interested in hiring you, even on a temporary basis. What I'm trying to say here, I guess, is that you are bright. And capable. Maybe you should start your own business. It's so hard, job hunting, it really is demoralizing. I've been what they call "downsized" as well, along with about 100 senior executives who were far better than me at their jobs. And I've seen grown men and women at these levels cry and feel just as discouraged after rejection in interviews. So you are perfectly normal in feeling this way. However, I'm saying not all is lost and please don't give up. What about doing resumes for people as your own business? You seem to be a great writer.
Posted by Poet on March 25, 2007, at 10:32:52
In reply to Re: It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER » Poet, posted by canadagirl on March 24, 2007, at 18:40:25
Hi Canadagirl,
If my headhunter really wanted me for that temp to hire job, she could have tried to get the employer to let me start in the afternoon, but she didn't, she just called someone else who was able to start the next morning. She gets paid when the person is placed, and I can't really blame her. I am to blame for my stupidity in thinking I'd get the job after I job shadowed that morning. I should know better, I've been turned down for over 100 jobs, I'm not exagarating, I truly am a failure. Yes, as my T says I keep trying, and that takes courage, but I can't take much more of this. I can't face getting another mindless boring job, either and sticking it out until I can retire. I will not be a failure at 50, so no way I'l be one at 62.
I would love to have my own business. I do write a good resume. The problem is I need to have a steady income, as it is my unemployment check barely contributes anything to the house. My husband doesn't earn enough to support both of us, I need to get a job to help pay expenses as well as give me self esteem. Writing resumes is something I could do on the side, but I don't know how I would sell myself/business. I can't do sales, because I can't take being turned down. I admire you that you do sales for a living, I wouldn't be able to easily say *I'll get the next one* and keep on going. That takes a skill that I don't have and as I said I admire you for having.
Thank you for being so positive. I can't be anything close to it right now, thank you for being it for me.
Poet
Posted by Deneb on March 25, 2007, at 19:07:34
In reply to Re: It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER » canadagirl, posted by Poet on March 25, 2007, at 10:32:52
Please don't kill yourself Poet.
Career doesn't define you as a person. Maybe compare yourself to people who are less fortunate?
For example, I don't have a degree yet and I'm working at a mindless job, but at least I have loving parents, a roof over my head and am not starving. I still have things to look foward to, like seeing Bob one day, going to the movies, going to China, etc.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on March 28, 2007, at 8:39:21
In reply to Re: It's time to give up in more ways than one TRIGGER, posted by Deneb on March 25, 2007, at 19:07:34
Posted by Poet on March 28, 2007, at 11:01:11
In reply to Are you OK poet? (nm), posted by Deneb on March 28, 2007, at 8:39:21
Hi Deneb,
I honestly can't take job hunting anymore, but I also can't take seeing my husband work so hard to pay the household expenses.
Thanks for asking how I am, sorry the answer is so negative.
Poet
Posted by Deneb on March 28, 2007, at 12:40:50
In reply to Re: Are you OK poet? » Deneb, posted by Poet on March 28, 2007, at 11:01:11
Looking for a job is really tough and you've been doing a very good job. I got tired of looking for a job easily so I settled on a mindless job. Don't give up. You're really smart and you must have a very good resume. You can think through this latest challenge.
Can you maybe call the places that didn't hire you and ask them why? Maybe you didn't list all your relevant skills and experience or something.
Can you go through a mock interview with a friend or something? Sometimes we may not make the best first impressions because of something stupid like not using hand gestures when talking or slouching or something.
You've worked very hard at job hunting. You deserve a break every now and then. Make sure you take some days off to de-stress and relax.
I wish you the very best.
Deneb*
This is the end of the thread.
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