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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lcat10 on February 5, 2007, at 23:22:58
As someone who works in the mental health field, who has worked as a therapist, and who has been in therapy myself, I find it thoroughly disgusting when I hear about therapists who violate boundaries with their patients. If I learn of who these therapists are, you can be sure I will report them to the licensing boards!
Posted by Dis Traught on February 6, 2007, at 1:52:50
In reply to Disgusted with therapist boundary violaters, posted by lcat10 on February 5, 2007, at 23:22:58
And as someone who was on the receiving end of one of those violaters, so am I.
I went into therapy because I had been abandoned as a child, and I was in dire need of being validated. I was a sitting duck for any therapist who targeted me. As clients we are extremely vulnerable, and I would never see a therapist who is not engaged in own therapy/debriefing at least once a week.Penny
Penny
Posted by sunnydays on February 6, 2007, at 9:17:56
In reply to Disgusted with therapist boundary violaters, posted by lcat10 on February 5, 2007, at 23:22:58
> As someone who works in the mental health field, who has worked as a therapist, and who has been in therapy myself, I find it thoroughly disgusting when I hear about therapists who violate boundaries with their patients. If I learn of who these therapists are, you can be sure I will report them to the licensing boards!
***** I find it.... maybe not disgusting... but definitely deeply troubling and disturbing. I am so glad my T is excellent.
sunnydays
Posted by pegasus on February 6, 2007, at 10:35:08
In reply to Disgusted with therapist boundary violaters, posted by lcat10 on February 5, 2007, at 23:22:58
I have sympathy with this point of view, because I can see in so many babble posts how vulnerable clients can be to Ts who would violate boundaries. There was a thread a couple of years ago about whether we would sleep with our Ts if they wanted to, and it seemed like maybe 75% of responses said yes! That's a lot of power that those Ts have.
And yet, I'm a little concerned, also, that the tone of this post will scare off posters who are clients of Ts who are doing boundary violations. Because usually they have strong attachments to their Ts. And I really value those posters a lot. And . . . I guess I also have some compassion for the Ts that end up in those situations. Yes, they've lost their way in terms of therapy, and yet it's such a common human failing that I can relate to via my own life mistakes. Also, it helps me believe in the realness of the therapy relationship to know that it can happen. But let me be clear that I don't endorse a T having a personal relationship with a client.
Sorry if this fans the flames. I guess I'm trying to say that I appreciate how incredibly hard it must be at times to keep those boundaries in place, and I respect the Ts who do it well. And I value the clients who are willing to share their experiences when the Ts don't do it.
peg
Posted by Honore on February 6, 2007, at 10:48:19
In reply to Re: Disgusted with therapist boundary violaters, posted by pegasus on February 6, 2007, at 10:35:08
Nothing that we say will break up a patients' relationship with a T-- because the ties that hold people together IRL are so much stronger than any outside can imagine.
I see that often with friends-- and myself-- when I've been in destructive relationships. The compulsion of the connection overwhelms even my own reason about how destructive it is and how much I need to get away.
It is good for us to say, perhaps as dispassionately as we can, to those who are caught in these snares, that we do understand, but that their Ts are behaving unethically, no matter how much in love they may feel that they are.
Glen Gabbard, a well-known psychoanalyst, has written authoritatively on this subject and I"ll try to find one or two of his papers.
Honore
Posted by widget on February 6, 2007, at 11:59:21
In reply to Re: Disgusted with therapist boundary violaters, posted by Honore on February 6, 2007, at 10:48:19
Honore, I would very much like to read those papers. It's such a difficult situation.Maybe that's why the taboo is so strong against a therapist having such a relationship with a client. It is just too alluring.
Posted by widget on February 6, 2007, at 12:36:18
In reply to Re: Disgusted with therapist boundary violaters, posted by pegasus on February 6, 2007, at 10:35:08
To Pegasus, I totally agree. I value these posters, too. I could easily be one. I hold no judgements but am personally fascinated by how these relationships began and what happens long-term. I, too, do not want to encourage such a relationship but I am human and struggling myself. As I said in another post, until now, I have had no one to talk to about being in such a position (of being tempted) and this is helping me a lot. So, please, don't be afraid to write, no matter what your situation. Most, I hope, of us care and empathize.
Posted by muffled on February 6, 2007, at 18:38:06
In reply to Re: Disgusted with therapist boundary violaters, posted by pegasus on February 6, 2007, at 10:35:08
Posted by scentedgarden on February 6, 2007, at 21:30:53
In reply to Nicely said Peg (nm) » pegasus, posted by muffled on February 6, 2007, at 18:38:06
Posted by lcat10 on February 6, 2007, at 22:39:10
In reply to Re: Disgusted with therapist boundary violaters, posted by Honore on February 6, 2007, at 10:48:19
> Nothing that we say will break up a patients' relationship with a T-- because the ties that hold people together IRL are so much stronger than any outside can imagine.
>
> I see that often with friends-- and myself-- when I've been in destructive relationships. The compulsion of the connection overwhelms even my own reason about how destructive it is and how much I need to get away.
>
> It is good for us to say, perhaps as dispassionately as we can, to those who are caught in these snares, that we do understand, but that their Ts are behaving unethically, no matter how much in love they may feel that they are.
>
> Glen Gabbard, a well-known psychoanalyst, has written authoritatively on this subject and I"ll try to find one or two of his papers.
>
> Honore
Yes; Glen Gabbard has written on the subject. I used to work with him at Menninger's when they were still in Topeka, Kansas. It is not unusual for patients to want to think they want to sleep with their therapist. It is something to be understood, not acted on by a therapist.There is no excuse in my book for a therapist to violate boundaries. If it is occuring, then the therapist needs to go get help for himself or herself. The power differential makes it impossible in my book for there ever to be an "equal" relationship. It did not start out that way, and will never be.
Posted by tofuemmy on February 7, 2007, at 18:16:14
In reply to Re: Disgusted with therapist boundary violaters, posted by lcat10 on February 6, 2007, at 22:39:10
Ya, I agree. I have no sympathy for the T's. They are trained up the wazoo on the rationale behind boundaries, and the consequences of violating them. They know what the right thing is, and they chose another path.
And that's fine in their personal life - we all mess up. But this job involves a sacred trust. People put their whole lives in these people's hands. If a T violates that trust this means he/she is in the wrong field, and should find another job....one where being worthy of our trust is not required.
I have a LOT of sympathy for their clients. There is one-sidedness and vulnerability built into these relationships. The T has to stand strong and be a support for their client. If they are unable - they need to back out and let a capable professional take over...IMO
em
Posted by widget on February 7, 2007, at 21:18:55
In reply to Re: Disgusted with therapist boundary violaters » lcat10, posted by tofuemmy on February 7, 2007, at 18:16:14
To em, can you tell me why it is so harmful for therapists to fall in love with a client and act on it? I am being very sincere. I can accept that it is conventional wisdom but no one yet has explained why? Can you or someone else (especially in the field of mental health) explain? I am curious and in need of nuts and bolts reasons.
Posted by lcat10 on February 7, 2007, at 23:05:48
In reply to Re: Disgusted with therapist boundary violaters, posted by widget on February 7, 2007, at 21:18:55
> To em, can you tell me why it is so harmful for therapists to fall in love with a client and act on it? I am being very sincere. I can accept that it is conventional wisdom but no one yet has explained why? Can you or someone else (especially in the field of mental health) explain? I am curious and in need of nuts and bolts reasons.
As someone who is a psychologist and who used to do therapy (now only do evaluations) and as someone who is and has in the past (many moons ago) been in therapy, let me just say that as a therapist you can no longer be helpful to your client/patient if you are letting your own personal needs get into the mix. This makes you a very, very ineffective therapist. The therapist loses perspective in term of how to help the client/patient. The therapist who does this, violates boundaries, needs help and unfortunately is no better than a sexual predator. They are especially hurting the client/patient but are also hurting themself. Hope this helps.
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