![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 3, 2006, at 17:38:37
I talked to them for almost 2 hours. I called them with the intention of talking about this stuff, but I was about to chicken out. Then my mom asked me "do you think your depression is a situational thing? a transitory thing? will it get better when certain things are resolved? (silence) um, well, I'm not diagnosed with depression anymore. Oh? (silence) yeah, now my diagnosis is post-traumatic stress disorder. (silence). I couldn't elaborate. My dad started by saying was it ___? no. was it ____? no. and after about a half-dozen of the yes/no questions, they asked was it something that happened in your childhood. yes. what? and I said that there was a lot of violence in our household. (my dad thought I was talking about violins. geez. he was confused for a while)
long story. all the crap I could bear to dump on them, like how I had spotted the abuse trigger in my pediatric record (mom had no memory of that. denial. denial. etc.) It wasn't an angry denial, but just a firm statement that Dad never hit his children. Dad on the other hand, said that he could not rule out the possibility that he might have done so.
We talked about my dad's childhood. In our discussion this afternoon, I found out more about his childhood than I had found about in my previous 27 years combined. Abusive.
We talked about my mom's childhood. yep, abusive. She kept on talking about how her confrontational personality led her dad to beat her. hmm. I said- was it your fault, then? no. she said. She kept on saying really contradictory things like that. My T was right. Both of them have a lot of physical, emotional psychological abuse in their histories.
Nobody got angry. We all tried really hard to understand each other. I tried to express what I have been struggling with, in terms of flashbacks and depression. I think my mom is the most stubborn. I feel like she still maintains that she did everything possible for us. I kept on probing her more and more (a trick I learned from all those hours with T!) and eventually I think she was able to concede some specific situations in which she could have done better. On the whole she was an odd mixture of sadness (she felt my pain and was sad that I had to go through all of this) resent (at Dad, mostly for being a crappy husband and an even worse father), and denial.
I'm kind of like that too. Like mother like daughter.
Dad was extremely apologetic. Since his half-dozen brushes with death in the last 2 years, and his dementia, he has probably become more reflective about the past. Especially as he struggles with his memory of whether events actually happened or not. He wanted to say that everything was his fault, and that he was a selfish person with a bad temper, and that he did a bad job as a father. At the same time, however, he also really didn't want to talk about how to help me. He kept on saying-- why does talking about this bad stuff help you?
Mom said that if there's anything that she and Dad can do, that they are more than willing to do it. She even said that she would be willing to fly with Dad, stay in a hotel, and go see my T with me, or separately, or whatever it took to help me.
So. That's about as good as I would have ever imagined this conversation to go. Now I take the next step. T said I have to take the first step- get the passive parent to acknowledge the abuse (mom), which I did. I even got the aggressive parent to acknowledge and repeatedly apologize for his behavior/transgressions.
the door's been opened. and we're all walking through it.
what's on the next side, I dunno.
I feel really weak and faint right now. I'm going to take a shower and see if I can snap back into my body. I'm kind of out of body right now.
my hands are really good at typing. I should let them do their own thing from now on.
-ll
Posted by muffled on December 3, 2006, at 18:11:07
In reply to I talked to my parents.**abuse**triggers**, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 3, 2006, at 17:38:37
Posted by madeline on December 3, 2006, at 19:17:11
In reply to I talked to my parents.**abuse**triggers**, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 3, 2006, at 17:38:37
HOLY CRAP!
It took my mom over 10 years to finally acknowledge that she was "sorry" for any harm that she may have caused.
My dad NEVER has. Not once, never ever.
It sounds as though you are going to have a very nice, supportive base on which to base your recovery.
It may take time, but I think if you can open your heart and forgive them (and they have done something VERY important to help that), this time may be wonderful for both you and your folks.
It must feel so nice to be have parents like that.
I'm VERY happy for you.
Maddie
Posted by sunnydays on December 3, 2006, at 19:21:16
In reply to I talked to my parents.**abuse**triggers**, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 3, 2006, at 17:38:37
Congrats, Ll. I just had a mini-confrontation with my mom - not planned out with my T at all, it just sort of happened. It didn't go that well at all. She apologized, but it was very hollow and she kept saying that she was sorry I lived in such a dysfunctional home and that she was sorry I grew up with so much hurt, but it was like she totally removed herself from it. And she kept saying she did the best she could at the time and hopefully someday I would understand.
I'm very shaken. I am so proud of you, though, for being able to talk to both of your parents about this. You did so well. It sounds like they will be responsive to your needs as much as can be expected.
(((((((llurpsie))))))))
sunnydays
Posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 3, 2006, at 22:42:57
In reply to Re: I talked to my parents.**abuse**triggers** » LlurpsieBlossom, posted by sunnydays on December 3, 2006, at 19:21:16
Thank you guys. This is going to sound really sappy, but I think the thing that convinced me to have this conversation was knowing that you babble-folks are real and that you take the effort to peek at my posts. It really means a lot to me, and I didn't realize how much until I met a few of you on Friday. You are all very unique, special people, and I feel like a stronger, more worthy person to have your support.
Can I be honest?
I've been imagining in my head for a while how such a conversation would play out. It went ten times better than my best-case scenario.
Maybe it will help my parents have a happier marriage too.
Did it rock the boat?
yes. I had a splitting headache, and felt like I was going to faint and vomit for a half hour afterwards. But the show goes on. Expected to arrive at my advisor's house by 7 for the christmas party, with vegetable side-dish in tow.
I crunched up a klonopin and took two aleve and a baby aspirin. And a cleansing shower. threw some carrots and oj and maple syrup in a casserole dish while I got ready. What if I didn't have anything planned? probably would have gone into some kind of dissociative crisis. Bad thoughts creeping in my head, but hopefully they won't stick around too long. (((((seroquel)))))
I get out to wait for my ride, and I don't see a bus coming. I start walking. And the bus passes me. and I keep walking. and walking. about 2.5 miles in 15 degree temperature. fresh air. down jacket. I was okay. headache was gone. I was not much fun at the party. I just didn't give a crap, but there was pie. (((((pie))))) and hot cider (((((hot cider))))))
so, now I'm at home. I think it's too late to call my T and talk to her.
I think this whole thing is so surreal. I won't even remember what was said, only the general themes.
I made my dad cry. only did that once before, when I played violin elegy at my Nana's funeral.
I made my mom cry. she only cried when I left for college.
they made me cry.
I'm exhausted. I'm alive. Who am I?
Posted by muffled on December 3, 2006, at 22:51:11
In reply to Re: I talked to my parents.**abuse**triggers**, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 3, 2006, at 22:42:57
Your wonderful Lupsie, thats who you are.
You are growing and changing and taking control.
And its gonna be OK.
Thanks that you share your journey with us.
I am honored too.
Take care,
Whatch out for passing emotions....
Muffled
Posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 3, 2006, at 22:57:45
In reply to Re: I talked to my parents » LlurpsieBlossom, posted by muffled on December 3, 2006, at 22:51:11
((((muffled))))
Posted by Daisym on December 4, 2006, at 1:39:14
In reply to Re: I talked to my parents, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 3, 2006, at 22:57:45
I'm so glad it went well. I'm proud of you. And of your parents.
And so very sad that i just can't do the same.
I hope you see your therapist soon for the outlet you need.
Posted by Fallsfall on December 4, 2006, at 8:23:06
In reply to Re: I talked to my parents.**abuse**triggers**, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 3, 2006, at 22:42:57
Wow. I'm proud of you. I'm happy that communication has opened up.
(((Llurpsie)))
Posted by Gee on December 4, 2006, at 15:16:35
In reply to Re: I talked to my parents, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 3, 2006, at 22:57:45
I must say you are so brave and so much braver than I could every be. Good for you Ll, I hope that things keep working out for you. You diserve it!!
Posted by happykat on December 4, 2006, at 21:18:12
In reply to I talked to my parents.**abuse**triggers**, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 3, 2006, at 17:38:37
That is intense!!! Good for you! That takes a lot of courage. It's great that your parents were able to open up and talk about their childhoods and to attempt to talk about yours with you. Good Luck with everything! I hope you appreciate what a tremendous step it is to have had this talk. Hats off to you! :)
happykat
Posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 5, 2006, at 23:57:17
In reply to Re: I talked to my parents » LlurpsieBlossom, posted by happykat on December 4, 2006, at 21:18:12
I talked to her again a little while ago.
She called me earlier. She wanted to bring up something.
Dad once took a medicine that made him act funny (for a week) older bro took different meds, some of which had strange side effects.
Was I taking any meds that are making me feel bad right now? Maybe if I stop that, then I'll feel better.
Um, NO MOM. this is not as simple as reducing my problems to a set of drug side effects. Although that is a very comforting idea, I don't think it can account for the fact that (insert various episodes of neglect and ill-treatment)
I tried to be nice at first, only bringing up some of the milder offenses.
She told me I needed to put this into a context of what generation she was, etc etc. (I told her my T was of her generation, if not older, and still thought this stuff was wrong)
She told me that she did the best job she could at holding the family together. I told her that she should be able to acknowledge that she could have done more to
1) protect her daughter from abuse
2) cultivate a culture where women are not abused
3) discipline my brothers for hitting me (and her)
4) cultivate a culture where the little sister is respected and protectedShe had ready excuses for all of this... blaming my Dad, her dad, my brother.
I told her that it wasn't helping me to hear her excuses. That there was NO way that she could understand things from my point of view. That sometimes I was very young, and that the way that these events made me feel as a child will be very different from how an equivalent event would make an adult feel (she conceded, and then followed up with another excuse/rationalization/etc...)
At one point she even started telling me about all the horrible things HER dad did to her. Grandpa, whom I love. Great. Um MOM! this is YOUR SH*T. I calmly explained to her that she might consider getting a psychotherapist and learning to understand this stuff and how it affects her.
She had at least a dozen excuses for avoiding psychotherapy. My favorite was this: when she was 13, she signed up to work with a therapist-in-training for free therapy, thinking it would be cool. She went three times, and the therapist was repeating back the things she was telling him/her? and she didn't like how it made her feel. That it made those ideas seem REAL somehow (um Mom? they were YOUR thoughts, the therapist did not put new thoughts in your head, only helped you make the implicit/unconscious memories more explicit and accessible. Bummer)
How freakin' ridiculous is THAT!?! a bad experience 40 years ago, with 3 sessions?
She kept on telling me all this heavy stuff. I had to remind her every 2 minutes- this is YOUR STUFF, *I* cannot help you with this. I am not healthy enough to hear this stuff right now. If you want to help me (ostensibly the reason for her call?) please either think HARD about your own role in this stuff, or get your own therapist, who you can talk to, who will help you see how every sentence you say contradicts itself, and how distorted your ideas are. She's positively delusional. Truly.
I told her I knew why she was resisting. It's because it's really comforting to think of our family as having been healthy and happy and such. It's hard to go back in the past and work on this stuff. She promised me that she would do whatever it took to help me get better. I told her that I don't know what the next step is, but that it almost certainly has to involve you MOM acknowledging your failures. Until you are able to do so, all your excuses, rationalizations, memory lapses, etc... feel like you are invalidating my experience, like you are invalidating my feelings, like you are telling me that this never happened, that I'm making all this stuff up.
I had 3 trump cards. what I told her:
1) My T says that you were "checked out, tuned out" during much of my childhood. (Oh no! I was very involved I did ....etc). Oh? What would you tell me if I told you that I didn't take a shower for a WHOLE MONTH when I was in seventh grade. (silence... well? would YOU want your mother to know what you were doing in the bathroom?) MOM! I'm yelling at her- I walked around for a month without washing my hair. How could you not NOTICE? (more rationalizations... but she's coming round...) MOM! what if I were the neighbor's kid, and I was in 7th grade and I had greasy hair? What would you SAY?
2. My next trump card when she started getting too wrapped up in her own delusions: Mom, you had a younger son who was suicidal, an older son who could not stop trying to kill himself and you thought that your [middle] daughter was somehow experiencing an idyllic childhood? How could you NOT assume that all this was affecting me too?
and finally la piece de resistance
3. Mom, you want to blame all of this stuff on Dad and my older brother's illness (he had a serious childhood illness). But the truth is that older bro was SICK before he had the illness. He was carving up his arm, he was really screwed up. I remember, mom. (she concedes... he was depressed for a while before he got the serious illness) Mom, how can you pretend that our family was not sick? Mom, how can you pretend that I [lurpsie] was immune to all of this?
etc etc...I think I may have motivated her to see a T. She's more deluded that I thought. Fortunately, she's not defending them with anger, but rather by alluding to some new delusion. slippery. slimy. no grasp on reality, human nature or common sense.
this woman who is my mother.
Posted by muffled on December 6, 2006, at 0:50:52
In reply to My Mom is RESISTING **suicide abuse triggers*****, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 5, 2006, at 23:57:17
Li, this is my perspective as a I a Mom myself.
> She called me earlier. She wanted to bring up something.**She's reaching out to you, she cares?
>
> Dad once took a medicine that made him act funny (for a week) older bro took different meds, some of which had strange side effects.
> Was I taking any meds that are making me feel bad right now? Maybe if I stop that, then I'll feel better.**Shes concerned for you, she cares?
>
> Um, NO MOM. this is not as simple as reducing my problems to a set of drug side effects. Although that is a very comforting idea, I don't think it can account for the fact that (insert various episodes of neglect and ill-treatment)
> I tried to be nice at first, only bringing up some of the milder offenses.**This where I really started to feel the anger that you have towards your mother.
>
> She told me I needed to put this into a context of what generation she was, etc etc. (I told her my T was of her generation, if not older, and still thought this stuff was wrong)**she making excuses....
> She told me that she did the best job she could at holding the family together.**She's human...
I told her that she should be able to acknowledge that she could have done more to
> 1) protect her daughter from abuse
> 2) cultivate a culture where women are not abused
> 3) discipline my brothers for hitting me (and her)
> 4) cultivate a culture where the little sister is respected and protected**Mebbe she could have...
Mebbe she couldn't have...
Sorta like people saying to a person thats clinically depressed to, 'just snap out of it.'
>
> She had ready excuses for all of this... blaming my Dad, her dad, my brother.**Mebbe the truth in unbearable to her :-(
If I had my kid say this to me, even if some part of me knew it was true, my heart would be breaking, because I love my kids SO much.You can look back and wonder, 'why did/didn't I DO this???'. But at the time....
>
> I told her that it wasn't helping me to hear her excuses. That there was NO way that she could understand things from my point of view. That sometimes I was very young, and that the way that these events made me feel as a child will be very different from how an equivalent event would make an adult feel (she conceded, and then followed up with another excuse/rationalization/etc...)**And she stuck with you on the phone, she didn't hang up, she listened even though she must have been hurting. Hurting for you, hurting hurself. Maybe she truly cares?
>
> At one point she even started telling me about all the horrible things HER dad did to her. Grandpa, whom I love. Great. Um MOM! this is YOUR SH*T. I calmly explained to her that she might consider getting a psychotherapist and learning to understand this stuff and how it affects her.**Yeah, mebbe a T might do her good? Esp in this difficult time.
>
> She had at least a dozen excuses for avoiding psychotherapy. My favorite was this: when she was 13, she signed up to work with a therapist-in-training for free therapy, thinking it would be cool. She went three times, and the therapist was repeating back the things she was telling him/her? and she didn't like how it made her feel. That it made those ideas seem REAL somehow (um Mom? they were YOUR thoughts, the therapist did not put new thoughts in your head, only helped you make the implicit/unconscious memories more explicit and accessible. Bummer)**Yes a bummer. I am surprized she went at all. Her generation really looks down on T.
>
> How freakin' ridiculous is THAT!?! a bad experience 40 years ago, with 3 sessions?**Fear. Fear drives us to do the stangest things...
>
> She kept on telling me all this heavy stuff. I had to remind her every 2 minutes- this is YOUR STUFF, *I* cannot help you with this. I am not healthy enough to hear this stuff right now. If you want to help me (ostensibly the reason for her call?) please either think HARD about your own role in this stuff, or get your own therapist, who you can talk to, who will help you see how every sentence you say contradicts itself, and how distorted your ideas are. She's positively delusional. Truly.**Indeed I beleive you are right Li.
>
> I told her I knew why she was resisting. It's because it's really comforting to think of our family as having been healthy and happy and such. It's hard to go back in the past and work on this stuff. She promised me that she would do whatever it took to help me get better. I told her that I don't know what the next step is, but that it almost certainly has to involve you MOM acknowledging your failures. Until you are able to do so, all your excuses, rationalizations, memory lapses, etc... feel like you are invalidating my experience, like you are invalidating my feelings, like you are telling me that this never happened, that I'm making all this stuff up.**This is where I am confused. I think its up to Li to deal with Li. I think it might be helpful and useful to have your Mom admit these things I suppose.
But what your 'childs' perception, and what your mentally ill mothers perception is, of what when on will likely differ. And mebbe its not the be all and end all. Because each persons trauma is their own. What traumatizes one, doesn't another. Trauma is very subjective. And given your mothers history, its quite possible that she truly does not understand.
And she had failings. So do I :-(
I love my kids SO much. But I fear I have scarred them.
The thot absolutely breaks my heart. Cuz as a MOm, I supposed to protect them :(
>
> I had 3 trump cards. what I told her:
>
> 1) My T says that you were "checked out, tuned out" during much of my childhood. (Oh no! I was very involved I did ....etc). Oh? What would you tell me if I told you that I didn't take a shower for a WHOLE MONTH when I was in seventh grade. (silence... well? would YOU want your mother to know what you were doing in the bathroom?) MOM! I'm yelling at her- I walked around for a month without washing my hair. How could you not NOTICE? (more rationalizations... but she's coming round...) MOM! what if I were the neighbor's kid, and I was in 7th grade and I had greasy hair? What would you SAY?**I'd say, I wonder if her mother is depressed or something. If that lady needs help so that she can better care for her child, which she seems to love?
>
> 2. My next trump card when she started getting too wrapped up in her own delusions: Mom, you had a younger son who was suicidal, an older son who could not stop trying to kill himself and you thought that your [middle] daughter was somehow experiencing an idyllic childhood? How could you NOT assume that all this was affecting me too?**OMG, a mothers utter nightmare :(
>
> and finally la piece de resistance**Yeah, stick it to her. Stab her with those steely knives, cuz you just can't kill the beast.
>
> 3. Mom, you want to blame all of this stuff on Dad and my older brother's illness (he had a serious childhood illness). But the truth is that older bro was SICK before he had the illness. He was carving up his arm, he was really screwed up. I remember, mom. (she concedes... he was depressed for a while before he got the serious illness) Mom, how can you pretend that our family was not sick? Mom, how can you pretend that I [lurpsie] was immune to all of this?
>
**The human mind is a wonderous thing. the things it can do to 'protect' us....
>
> I think I may have motivated her to see a T. She's more deluded that I thought. Fortunately, she's not defending them with anger, but rather by alluding to some new delusion. slippery. slimy. no grasp on reality, human nature or common sense.**So much anger :(
>
> this woman who is my mother.**Who loves you?
Li, I REALLY don't mean to seem harsh, but as a mother this post really was hard to read. Its seems like you mom does care from what I have read.
Its sounds quite possible that there was/is mental illness involved.
Your Mom is human.
She screwed up big time. You got really damaged.
Why didn't she do more? Was it because she don't like you? Was it deliberate cruelty on her part?
I dunno, but next thing, it gonna be your Mom that breaks...
Just wanted you to see the other side of the coin...
And not to depend too much on your Moms reaction..
Cuz there's lots who don't have Moms, or Moms who would be willing to try and talk about it at all.
So I don't think you NEED your Mom to heal yourself is what I am trying say.
Just be careful Li.
Its all so hard.
Dammit, wish things could be different.
Take it slow Li.
This is such big stuff.
Guess the seroquel is keeping you settled a bit.
I'da flipped out by now.
I have not a CLUE as to what you do with the rage.
If you find out, let me know.
I don't hate my Ma. I just pity her :(
It all sucks.
But hang in there.
Emotions are signposts thats telling us somethings going on. They pass.
(((((((((LI)))))))))))))
:(
Muffled
Posted by Gee on December 6, 2006, at 6:42:42
In reply to My Mom is RESISTING **suicide abuse triggers*****, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 5, 2006, at 23:57:17
Oh Li, it seems tough stuff. I know where you're coming from. My mom is the same way, but she's starting to understand a bit. But just a bit. I'm sorry it was so hard with your mom. You had made such progress with the first phone call. ((LB)))
Posted by sunnydays on December 6, 2006, at 7:36:43
In reply to My Mom is RESISTING **suicide abuse triggers*****, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 5, 2006, at 23:57:17
All I can say is WOW. You are so brave. It's very common for abusers to deny and rationalize, from what I hear. I just said something to my mother the other day, though, and she was telling me how she did the best she could. It is really hard to hear something like that coming from one's own parent, even if you know it's likely they will say that. Take care of yourself, Li.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on December 6, 2006, at 7:44:07
In reply to Re: My Mom is RESISTING **suicide abuse triggers***** » LlurpsieBlossom, posted by muffled on December 6, 2006, at 0:50:52
Hi muffled,
I just wanted to say it was really hard for me to read your post. Something I just realized the other day is that even though my mother didn't do a lot of things, that doesn't mean that in an ideal world she wouldn't have done them and that doesn't mean I didn't deserve them. I guess the part I miss from my own mother is the fact that she, much, I think, like Li's mother, doesn't seem to want to accept the FACT that I deserved to have a better childhood, and that it is, no matter what the reasons, because of her that I did not have a better childhood. She may have a lot of reasons for not doing better, but that doesn't erase the fact that because of her actions I was abused and that I deserved better.Just a thought I had...
sunnydays
Posted by ClearSkies on December 6, 2006, at 7:50:59
In reply to My Mom is RESISTING **suicide abuse triggers*****, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 5, 2006, at 23:57:17
My mother is incapable of processing what I have tried to talk to her about. First she was defensive, then she was guilt-ridden and chose not to speak to me, for fear of "upsetting" me, and now she is sad. It was up to me to tell her that I wasn't expecting anything more than her acknowledgement that I and my siblings had been raised in a household fraught with mental illnesses that would not be spoken of, ever. When I suggested that she needed professional help, she replied that it wasn't something she wanted to do. End of story.
My T helped me see that this is HER stuff, not mine. That my expectations were higher than she can ever meet. And that I have to continue on my own journey no matter what. That really hurt, but I have accepted it, mostly, pretty much, OK not all the time. It still hurts.
I guess I'm saying that you might be beating your head against a wall by expecting too much of your mom. After all, this is the same coping behaviour she had while all this bad stuff was going on, right?
CS
Posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 6, 2006, at 9:25:22
In reply to Re: My Mom is RESISTING **suicide abuse triggers***** » LlurpsieBlossom, posted by muffled on December 6, 2006, at 0:50:52
>
> **Who loves you?I'm sorry if I wasn't clear about that. My mom LOVES ME. definitely. and I LOVE HER. definitely.
That's why she called me up. That's why I stuck with her during this impossible conversation.> Li, I REALLY don't mean to seem harsh, but as a mother this post really was hard to read. Its seems like you mom does care from what I have read.
> Its sounds quite possible that there was/is mental illness involved.yes
> Your Mom is human.
> She screwed up big time. You got really damaged.
> Why didn't she do more? Was it because she don't like you? Was it deliberate cruelty on her part?nope not deliberate. I do not believe that she is a cruel person. I have made excuses for her behavior for a very long time. I know what the excuses are.
> I dunno, but next thing, it gonna be your Mom that breaks...
> Just wanted you to see the other side of the coin...I know muffled. I told my T that. She said it might cause a crisis. That mom might have a really hard time. My Mom is tough, though. She's been through a lot. That's why I spent the last 20 mins of the phone conversation trying to convince her to see a T. I think I was succssful. She said that I did a good job motivating her.
> And not to depend too much on your Moms reaction..
> Cuz there's lots who don't have Moms, or Moms who would be willing to try and talk about it at all.
> So I don't think you NEED your Mom to heal yourself is what I am trying say.You're absolutely right, muffled. I do not NEED my mom. I do not need her reaction. But I cannot see us being close in the future if we don't go through this stuff together. Otherwise we're just going to drift apart. We have no emotional intimacy (at least not until the last 5 days...)
> Just be careful Li.
> Its all so hard.
> Dammit, wish things could be different.
> Take it slow Li.
> This is such big stuff.
> Guess the seroquel is keeping you settled a bit.
> I'da flipped out by now.Yep, I'm pretty settled. ((((seroquel)))) I got klonopin too. it makes me super sleepy though. I might just be forced to get a latte on the way to work this am. I couldn't get up until 9am. ugh.
> I have not a CLUE as to what you do with the rage.My mom has some emotions. She has sadness (I don't really get in touch with that one very often. too hurty.) And I was able to get angry with her last night. I got really mad because she kept on going around in circles. I know that she heard the anger in my voice too.
And she got mad at me sometimes, because I'm giving her a hard time about stuff she doesn't even remember. poor Mom. poor Llurpsie.
> If you find out, let me know.
> I don't hate my Ma. I just pity her :(
> It all sucks.
> But hang in there.
> Emotions are signposts thats telling us somethings going on. They pass.
> (((((((((LI)))))))))))))
> :(
> Muffled
thanks muffled. I'm sorry that this post was hard to read as a mom. I think that you seeing a T is SOOOO much better than just sweeping all the stuff under the rug and smiling and pretending it's all right. You're doing the right thing. My family is kind of "out there" if you haven't noticed already. Try not to draw comparisons.Also, I told my mom this last night, and I'll tell you now too. Llurpsie has a lot of really good qualities. I'm halfway decent at punctuation, for example, and I know how to make muffins. All my good qualities speak to the fact that I had a loving mother, and a childhood that allowed me to achieve a lot of things. It could not have all been horrible, because I'm not a 100% horrible outcome. I'm halfway decent, perhaps.
thanks for hugs.
-ll
Posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 6, 2006, at 9:35:55
In reply to Re: My Mom is RESISTING **suicide abuse triggers***** » LlurpsieBlossom, posted by ClearSkies on December 6, 2006, at 7:50:59
> My mother is incapable of processing what I have tried to talk to her about. First she was defensive, then she was guilt-ridden and chose not to speak to me, for fear of "upsetting" me, and now she is sad. It was up to me to tell her that I wasn't expecting anything more than her acknowledgement that I and my siblings had been raised in a household fraught with mental illnesses that would not be spoken of, ever. When I suggested that she needed professional help, she replied that it wasn't something she wanted to do. End of story.
Yep, that sounds about right. I think my mom is willing to start seeing a T. I had to work really hard to convince her that it would be a good thing for her. Here are some of my reasons.
1. mom said that she would do anything she could to help me get better.
2. mom has an ailing husband and is his full-time caretaker. a lot of stress for anyone.
3. mom has her exercise and her other coping mechanisms, but she still cannot deny that she is often 'down' or depressed.
4. mom has a lot of pent-up emotions. she has nobody to talk to them with. not me, not my dad, not her friends (she doesn't have any close friends :( )
5. mom understands that some of her explanations and ways of understanding her world are not grounded in reality. she knows that she's talking nonsense, but only when someone points it out to her. I think that person should be a T, and I explained it to her.
6. I told her it would be educational. That she would learn more about herself, and the way that she works. That it's not about 'feeling good' that it's about self-growth.
7. I told her that just because it's not easy, and it doesn't always make us feel better immediately, that it's still a good thing to work on this stuff. kind of like a personal trainer for your mind and coping mechanisms. no pain no gain.etc.
> My T helped me see that this is HER stuff, not mine. That my expectations were higher than she can ever meet. And that I have to continue on my own journey no matter what. That really hurt, but I have accepted it, mostly, pretty much, OK not all the time. It still hurts.
>
> I guess I'm saying that you might be beating your head against a wall by expecting too much of your mom. After all, this is the same coping behaviour she had while all this bad stuff was going on, right?
>
> CSI know CS. but I want her to be a grandmother to my children (one day?). and I want to be able to trust her to take care of them...
Posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 6, 2006, at 12:03:23
In reply to Re: My Mom is RESISTING **suicide abuse triggers*****, posted by sunnydays on December 6, 2006, at 7:36:43
Thank you for your kind responses to my thread.
It's hard huh?
I talked to T yesterday, and pdoc today.
They both said that I'm brave, and that they're really impressed etc. etc.
I know that even a few weeks ago I would not have been strong enough to take these steps. It's hard for me to accept that I am doing a good thing, though. I have a hard time accepting the things that people are telling me not just the bad things, like my Mom's denials and delusions, but ALSO the good things, like how smart, insightful, strong, brave, clever, creative, etc.
It just feels so surreal sometimes. I wake up and it feels like a bad dream, or a good dream, or just unreal. Sometimes *I* feel unreal.
Thank goodness for T who helps keep me grounded- helps me remember who I am. And for pdoc and his pharmacopaeia. Seroquel helps me keep the bad thoughts/voices out of my conscious mind. Klonopin to help with the anxiety attack I had Sunday after the long phone call, and helping me stay a little mellower/less reactive. Stable-ish moods and clear thinking, getting enough sleep. Knowing that I could vent/spew/distract myself/etc. on p-babble...
All of this has made it possible for me to take these steps.
What a week. Feels like half my lifetime has elapsed in the last week.
-Ll
Posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2006, at 22:48:57
In reply to Gee, Sunnydays, everyone, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 6, 2006, at 12:03:23
You know in a way I identify with Muffled as I was married at l8 and a Mother at l9 and my own Mother died when I was l7. I brought myself up as she was sick from the time I was two. Physical stuff but the new on the market prednisone affected her mind so she ranted, raved at me that I was killing her and I'd made her sick at age two by carrying me up two flights of stairs. Well I know this isn't true and I chose to forgive her as it was the medication talking. She was a real estate broker insurance broker in the 40's and 50's when women didn't do those things so i know she was very strong till she became sick. I tried to bring mine up to be independant never yelled or spanked them and they all have four or more years of college and I'm proud of them. But they are more independant than I wanted. So our family is really split. But at least I know they can take care of themselves and that is what I had them for to raise them and give them wings to fly. I don't want to be a Mother who is a burden to her children no and I won't. So I'll take care of me and they will take care of them and if they need me I'm there otherwise I don't interfer. That's the best gift I could ever give them. They don't need money I do but that's my problem not theres Wow what a rant. Love Phillipa
Posted by madeline on December 7, 2006, at 5:41:34
In reply to My Mom is RESISTING **suicide abuse triggers*****, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 5, 2006, at 23:57:17
Now that sounds like my mom.
If I had to hear "I did the best I could" I thought I was going to vomit.
So, being the little beeyatch that I am, I told her that "the best she could do" was pretty darn sad if not outright illegal.
Dad still maintains that everything was just fine and that I am a drama queen who just wanted to hurt mom for some reason.
In short, they created a person that didn't even realize she was human. I remember the day in therapy -years ago- when I finally "got it". I am a human being with wants and desires that are valid. I have mass and occupy space.
Well, all that being said...
As I have processed the rage, the grief, the confusion and the badness I have discovered that the capacity for forgiveness and love is unlimited. It just takes time.
I admire what you are doing, it is such a necessary step in healing.
Steady as she goes lurpsie, use your supports and keep your hope.
There is a light at the end of this tunnel.
Love to you
Maddie
Posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 7, 2006, at 8:39:52
In reply to Re: My Mom is RESISTING **suicide abuse triggers***** » LlurpsieBlossom, posted by madeline on December 7, 2006, at 5:41:34
Thanks Maddie,
I'm so glad to hear that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for that- it's one thing to hear it from my T, but important to hear from you too.I'm just gonna let it rest for a couple more days. I'm not gonna call them any more. If they want to call ME, it better not be with the intention of telling me that this whole thing is a side-effect of me taking medications, and getting ideas from my therapist(s).
I get a little impetuous sometimes.
-ll
Posted by kerria on December 16, 2006, at 14:20:15
In reply to I talked to my parents.**abuse**triggers**, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 3, 2006, at 17:38:37
(((((((safe hugs)))))))
i'm so sorry that the conversation went as it did. Maybe your mother will think and talk to you later. tears for you and all that have been treated so badly.
my mom talked to me when i wasn't expecting it. tears
she said that we 'could have been really hurt'. i know she was thinking of damaged physically - and admitted it was wrong -kind of -and that she grew so much since then and there were so many pressures or something like that.tears, i appreciate that she said that and i forgive but my life is so messed up. The physical wounds heal so much better than the emotional ones.
best wishes,
kerria
Posted by kerria on December 16, 2006, at 14:33:25
In reply to Re: I talked to my parents.**abuse**triggers** » LlurpsieBlossom, posted by kerria on December 16, 2006, at 14:20:15
LlurpsieBlossom,
i'm sorry that your mother won't admit to what really happened. You are a very courageous person to confront her.
wishing you peace,
kerria
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