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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on July 19, 2006, at 20:02:21
I told my therapist today that last night I was researching "Therapists and Suicide...how to cope when a patient succeeds." Is this an indicator of how bad I feel or how much I care about him?
He said right now if worrying about him will keep me here, he'll take it. But the person I should be thinking about and worrying about is me. He also reminded me that he's promised not to abandon me if I didn't abandon him. He threw in my kids too, which is what he does when he is really worried and trying to be calm. He wrote his cell number down again for me...just in case.
How do you explain to someone that taking care of yourself might be taking yourself out of so much pain? He just shakes his head and says I have to fight it. How?
Pass that magic wand over here please...
Posted by sunnydays on July 19, 2006, at 20:12:35
In reply to Struggling (big trigger), posted by daisym on July 19, 2006, at 20:02:21
(((daisym))) Please don't take yourself out of it. I know it is so, so hard. I'm really struggling right now - so many triggers popping up everywhere and catching me off guard. But try to just keep going, a little bit at a time. One minute at a time, one second, whatever it takes. And try to find a little time for yourself. I don't know what that would be for you, but for me it would be hiding with a book for an evening. Please take care. You are an amazing person.
sunnydays
Posted by Poet on July 19, 2006, at 20:45:09
In reply to Struggling (big trigger), posted by daisym on July 19, 2006, at 20:02:21
Hi Daisy,
I wish I had an answer for you. When I was going to activiate my plan, two years ago, one of the things my T said to me was that my suicide would hurt her in a deep place. Also how much it would hurt my husband.
I'm really depressed right now and have been thinking a lot about suicide. I plan to talk to my T about it tomorrow. I'll post what she says, but I suspect it'll be the same as it was before. Inflict guilt onto Poet. Which I know isn't how she meant it, but it's how I remember it.
I'm so sorry you're feeling so down. I wish I had a giant magic wand enough for all of us.
Safe cyber hugs.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on July 19, 2006, at 20:46:12
In reply to Struggling (big trigger), posted by daisym on July 19, 2006, at 20:02:21
Allow the ties of affection to bind you here.
I know how pleasant it seems to think of letting go. But real life is full of people that we love, that letting go will hurt.
Sometimes if that's all that keeps us going, that's enough.
Are there any other ways to reduce the pain? Are you on any meds? What ways help you get through the worst pain?
Posted by fallsfall on July 19, 2006, at 21:04:12
In reply to Struggling (big trigger), posted by daisym on July 19, 2006, at 20:02:21
(((((...Daisy)))))...
Love,
Falls
Posted by annierose on July 19, 2006, at 22:30:56
In reply to Struggling (big trigger), posted by daisym on July 19, 2006, at 20:02:21
One of the biggest weapons you have to fight this is your knowledge that this overwhelming darkness does usually pass with time, support and therapy. Lots of talking about it from every direction, angle and listening to the soothing voice of your T. Together you will make it through. You may be thinking ridding your pain through suicide will make it all go away, but it won't. The pain will linger on through your children and their children.
You matter Daisy.
You have gone through this before and it does pass. It's not easy. But you will get there. Keep talking, keep journaling and keep talking with your T.
((((((((((little daisy)))))))))))))
Love, Annie
Posted by All Done on July 19, 2006, at 23:38:43
In reply to Struggling (big trigger), posted by daisym on July 19, 2006, at 20:02:21
(((((Daisy))))),
I'm sorry you're in so much pain.
Call your T as much as you need to right now. He's there for you and ready to help. You aren't alone.
I wish I could say more to help. You just don't deserve to feel like this.
Please take care.
Love,
Laurie
Posted by Daisym on July 19, 2006, at 23:54:19
In reply to Re: Struggling (big trigger) » daisym, posted by annierose on July 19, 2006, at 22:30:56
Posting about how I feel right now is a double-edge sword. I want and need the support so thank you all so much for that. I want to matter to someone.
And yet, I don't. I'm feel like I'm tied to a balloon that is drifting slowly and quietly away. And balloons make people really happy as they float up and up and up. And then when they are out of sight, they burst...explode...and what is left free-falls to the ground. But out of sight, out of mind, right?
I wonder if you all know how much you mean to me. I've met some of you in person and everyone is as awesome in person as they are on the board. I think about this journey I'm on and I wouldn't have made it this far without Babble and my friends here. Nothing in my life has ever compared to the experience of being wholly honest and understood. The idea that I could say what I've said, especially about something as personal as therapy and my feelings for my therapist, astounds me. What an incredible gift -- this place of safety and soft emotional holding. I know others have not had the same consistent experience, but I feel blessed to have landed here, and to have found you all at this time of my life.
I know this is sappy and sentimental but I wanted it said. ((((Babble friends)))))
Posted by fallsfall on July 20, 2006, at 10:36:08
In reply to Re: Struggling (big trigger), posted by Daisym on July 19, 2006, at 23:54:19
And we will continue to be here with you, Daisy. There will be times in the future when you will feel our love. Hopefully you feel it now.
And I need you as much as you need me. Remember that.
Posted by pegasus on July 20, 2006, at 11:13:17
In reply to Struggling (big trigger), posted by daisym on July 19, 2006, at 20:02:21
Daisy, I'm sorry you're in that dark place again. Your therapist is wonderful, and I'm so glad that you have him. I know what you mean about it seeming like a way of saving yourself from all of the pain and struggle. I've felt that way too. And it's hard for our Ts to counter that. My old T used to tell me that in his belief system, suicide didn't actually save you from that pain. It just moved you to a different place where you had to deal with the pain, and then *also* your decision to turn against yourself.
Sorry if that's not helpful. It never really helped me, because I don't actually believe that. And I really wanted/needed to believe that there *was* a way out.
many safe hugs
peg
Posted by Jost on July 20, 2006, at 14:04:13
In reply to Re: Struggling (big trigger), posted by pegasus on July 20, 2006, at 11:13:17
Hi, Daisy. I know a little about where you are-- in a way.
I've been very close to suicide at one point, and of course, I don't know if this is how it is for you.
For me, it came down to whether there was anything in life that I couldn't turn my back on, couldn't quite give up on, or completely let go. Anything that I just needed to do, no matter what.
For me, there was. In the final analysis.
So I couldn't take that step, even though it seemed as if it would end the pain. It wasn't because anyone needed me, or would suffer because of my choice. Any moral qualm, any idea there was anything beyond my personal experience in whatever here and now I had.
Even if my need to do this thing didn't make any particular sense to me. It just was there.
I have a feeling there something like that for you, because you've come through before, and there's a reason you did it, even if it's a reason that only you know.
Jost
Posted by annierose on July 20, 2006, at 16:51:23
In reply to Re: Struggling (big trigger), posted by Daisym on July 19, 2006, at 23:54:19
I hope some of the darkness lifted today. I've been thinking about you and wishing there was a better way for me to help lift the clouds.
It seems to me this darkness comes every summer for you. I don't know for certain if that is true, but it would be interesting if it was. What does the summer trigger for you (if my recollection was true) ...
You do matter. You do.
Posted by Racer on July 20, 2006, at 17:32:39
In reply to Re: Struggling (big trigger), posted by Daisym on July 19, 2006, at 23:54:19
OK, you know how I use abcesses as an analogy for whatever ails us psychologically? Well, this fits into it, Daisy.
Just in case anyone hasn't already read this one...
Our psychological wounds are like abcesses. The surface can even be healed over, so that you're not aware of the wound, but under that surface, the infection is still there -- and growing. While that intact skin is covering it, and it has no where to go, it's eating away your healthy flesh and bone. That's why we go to therapy -- to debride that abcess.
And it hurts. It hurts much more than just leaving it as it was -- right now. If we did leave it, though, it would just get worse, and we'd end up in more pain. But when we treat it, debride the psychological abcess, everything can heal for real -- it's all healthy flesh that comes back. That's what we're working for, right?
Now, Daisy -- if I came to you and said, "You know, my beloved cat had an abcess, and so I had him put down, because treating it would hurt so much," what would you say to me? What would you think of me?
So, right now, while I acknowledge that you're in a huge amount of pain, you're still looking at euthanizing yourself over an abcess. Something treatable. Something that you *will* get over -- if you allow yourself.
Mind you, if you came to me with your cat, and said, "I feel so bad, because he doesn't understand that the pain he's feeling now will pass, and there's no way to tell him -- but I love him so much, I'm going to put him through this pain in order for him to have the rest of his life," I'd say, "yes, that's so hard, I understand."
So, that's what I say to you now: I understand how hard this is for you right now.
Daisy? You really and truly *can* do this. I'll even put that in writing. If it turns out that I'm wrong, you can sue me for breach of contract. Won't you stick around for that?
All my best to you.
Posted by canadagirl on July 20, 2006, at 21:31:38
In reply to Struggling (big trigger), posted by daisym on July 19, 2006, at 20:02:21
Just keep reaching out, and someone -- us here on babble, or your therapist --- will be there for you. The important thing is to talk about it and get your feelings out.
Posted by crushedout on July 21, 2006, at 17:58:47
In reply to Re: Struggling (big trigger), posted by Daisym on July 19, 2006, at 23:54:19
Daisy,I'm worried about you and I want you to stay safe.
For me, reading about therapist reactions to patient suicide makes me feel cared for. Because it drives home the idea that my T and I have a real relationship and that she really cares.
She said this to me yesterday, that what we had between us was REAL. It made me cry. Because I want more evidence of that. Or I want to matter to her more.
I don't know if this helps, but I just thought I would share it. Please take care of yourself. We all really care about you.
Posted by Daisym on July 21, 2006, at 21:58:35
In reply to Re: Struggling (big trigger) » Daisym, posted by crushedout on July 21, 2006, at 17:58:47
It is harder this time because it isn't about wanting more from him, or the pain of not being able to have a real relationship with him. It is really old pain and I'm so miserably tired of dealing with the memories. I feel like laying down and giving up. I know I will hurt him if I give up.
He told me today that I'm wrapped in darkness so for now I need to stop questioning and struggling and just "follow orders." And my order were (are) to hold on: to him, to my kids and to you guys. I'm just suppose to work hard to stay still and not act. He said he is one step ahead of me, finding the way out of the dark tunnel, and I need to hold on to him and trust that he can lead me out of this. I want to believe him and it is hard not to struggle to find some other way to quiet my mind and ease the pain. He said "I don't care what you think, don't think. Hold on." (wow, weird thing for a therapist to say.) He is being so gentle and so strong...and I gave him a promise.
But it is pretty hard to just sit with all of this. I had a complete brain fade at the grocery store and ended up leaving in tears. I couldn't remember anything we needed. And that just isn't me.
And my dad called me today, out of the blue. He is on the West Coast visiting. I've been sick to my stomach all afternoon with fear. He said he doubts they will actually get to California but he'd let me know. I don't feel safe, I feel small and young and terrified. The back of my closet looks better and better.
I'm sorry guys. I should take a break from posting. It all comes out negative and horrible. And there isn't anyone can do anyway.
Posted by sunnydays on July 21, 2006, at 22:35:18
In reply to Re: Struggling (big trigger), posted by Daisym on July 21, 2006, at 21:58:35
Oh, Daisy, I'm sorry your dad called. Can you tell him that you just can't see him right now? Make up an excuse if you have to, say you have plans? If you can't, that's okay too -- just keep hanging on, and call your T and post here when it gets too difficult. No one here is sick of you posting - I am always happy to see that you have written something, even if it's dark, because it means you are reaching out. It's good to reach out, even if it's hard. Then people can show you how much they care. But I know it's hard - I have so much trouble with that myself. If you need a break from posting because it's too triggering, then by all means, but if you think that we're sick of you or will get frustrated, it's not true. We're here for you, daisy, no matter how you're feeling. And your therapist is there. Hold onto him like he said. (((((daisym)))))
sunnydays
Posted by fallsfall on July 21, 2006, at 23:23:12
In reply to Re: Struggling (big trigger), posted by Daisym on July 21, 2006, at 21:58:35
>>He told me today that I'm wrapped in darkness so for now I need to stop questioning and struggling and just "follow orders." And my order were (are) to hold on: to him, to my kids and to you guys. I'm just suppose to work hard to stay still and not act. He said he is one step ahead of me, finding the way out of the dark tunnel, and I need to hold on to him and trust that he can lead me out of this. I want to believe him and it is hard not to struggle to find some other way to quiet my mind and ease the pain. He said "I don't care what you think, don't think. Hold on." (wow, weird thing for a therapist to say.) He is being so gentle and so strong...and I gave him a promise.
So follow orders and hold on to him, and to your kids and to us. Please hold on.
Love,
Falls
Posted by Racer on July 22, 2006, at 0:00:36
In reply to Re: Struggling (big trigger), posted by Daisym on July 21, 2006, at 21:58:35
Bulloney, Daisy. Not posting would be against the doctor's orders, now, wouldn't it?
Besides, we're all in the same boat, so you'd better plan on helping us all bail it out, right? Sometimes that means just being here. I know you can do that.
>
>
> The back of my closet looks better and better.That's because it's a great closet. ;-)
And you know what? I realize this is a literal response, rather than a "real" one, but I used to sit in my closet all the time. I took in a light, and an armchair, and my radio, and that's where I'd sit and read. The heater duct was there, and as long as the pilot light was on, it was warm in there. I felt so snug and safe. I really don't think there's anything wrong with sitting in the closet, if it's a cozy place for you.
I'm also a very firm believer -- you'll laugh at this -- in giving yourself time off, giving yourself permission to stop struggling quite so hard against the current. Just let the current have you for a while, while you get collect your strength again. Float.
>
> I'm sorry guys. I should take a break from posting. It all comes out negative and horrible. And there isn't anyone can do anyway.Yeah, well, you know what? We can do the only thing anyone can ever do for another person, when you come right down to it: we can care about you. And we do that. It's a lot better, though, if you're here to be cared about...
My class is overwhelming, but in a good way (now that I've stopped the Buspar...), but if you want to go shoe shopping, you know where to find me, right?
Posted by sunnydays on July 24, 2006, at 19:49:32
In reply to Struggling (big trigger), posted by daisym on July 19, 2006, at 20:02:21
How are you? Have the desperate feelings passed any? (((daisym)))
This is the end of the thread.
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