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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2006, at 1:02:08
In reply to The elephant in my room, posted by ClearSkies on July 14, 2006, at 12:13:28
Do it piece by piece, by baby steps. I like the idea to write it down first. That's a step. And when you feel like it, you could start with just one person, or one idea to get it going. I could tell my T ANYTHING, except I don't like to talk about anything to do with sex. that's just not comfortable for me with her. At least you're thinking about it, that's a start.
Keep on going, don't stop now.
LadyBug
Posted by ClearSkies on July 15, 2006, at 5:46:15
In reply to Re: The elephant in my room » ClearSkies, posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2006, at 1:02:08
I'm even afraid to write it down.
I think I will move up my appointment and see if I can approach this thing sideways. It's just too distracting for me; I am having trouble dealing with this in silence.
Thanks to all! I appreciate the great advice :-)
Posted by cecilia on July 15, 2006, at 7:31:58
In reply to Re: The elephant in my room » ClearSkies, posted by antigua on July 14, 2006, at 20:26:15
Desperate to do therapy right, I shared many elephants with my ex-T. (usually in writing). It never made me feel any better, though, and after therapy fell apart I'm left with all those elephants grown bigger and scarier. T's are taught that encouraging their clients to share their elephants will reduce shame, but for some it multiplies it. T's are taught a lot of things that aren't true. Even if they see the client falling apart before their eyes, can't be, that's not what they were taught in T school. Cecilia
Posted by ClearSkies on July 15, 2006, at 18:16:21
In reply to Re: The elephant in my room, posted by cecilia on July 15, 2006, at 7:31:58
Then who can I trust? Who can I find who will work with me on this? If I can't trust a therapist with my thoughts and feelings, what am I doing there?
CS> Desperate to do therapy right, I shared many elephants with my ex-T. (usually in writing). It never made me feel any better, though, and after therapy fell apart I'm left with all those elephants grown bigger and scarier. T's are taught that encouraging their clients to share their elephants will reduce shame, but for some it multiplies it. T's are taught a lot of things that aren't true. Even if they see the client falling apart before their eyes, can't be, that's not what they were taught in T school. Cecilia
Posted by annierose on July 15, 2006, at 19:45:15
In reply to Re: The elephant in my room » cecilia, posted by ClearSkies on July 15, 2006, at 18:16:21
I think you can trust your T. You already do.
Posted by ClearSkies on July 16, 2006, at 7:43:34
In reply to Re: The elephant in my room » ClearSkies, posted by annierose on July 15, 2006, at 19:45:15
I do feel that I can.
I am going to call and get in this week to see her and try to talk about it; at least start.Thanks, Annierose
Posted by ElaineM on July 16, 2006, at 10:35:29
In reply to Re: The elephant in my room » cecilia, posted by ClearSkies on July 15, 2006, at 18:16:21
>>>> Desperate to do therapy right, I shared many elephants with my ex-T. (usually in writing). It never made me feel any better, though, and after therapy fell apart I'm left with all those elephants grown bigger and scarier. T's are taught that encouraging their clients to share their elephants will reduce shame, but for some it multiplies it. T's are taught a lot of things that aren't true. Even if they see the client falling apart before their eyes, can't be, that's not what they were taught in T school. Cecilia
> Then who can I trust? Who can I find who will work with me on this? If I can't trust a therapist with my thoughts and feelings, what am I doing there?
> CSMy interpretation of this advice would be.....that the sole act of vocalizing something with a T, won't make you suddenly okay with an issue within yourself. That a T's ears are not necessarily a magic solution, and that the outcome of uncovering elephants is a very individual thing....
I think you can trust your T. And I think you'd be really brave to share something you feel so much shame about. My T's have always told me that SOMETIMES even the act of sharing alone, can deflate the balloon a little. When I told my doctor about my relationship with my T, it was such an incredibly unburdening experience. It didn't solve the underlying problem, it didn't make understanding or accepting my situation any easier, but it made me feel so much less alone -- like there was two carrying the weight, instead of only one. And that's something huge.
I'd hope that you could experience the same thing. And that that would give you increased strength to continue working on the issue, once it's out in the open.
Good Luck, hugs, EL
Posted by ClearSkies on July 18, 2006, at 6:56:50
In reply to The elephant in my room, posted by ClearSkies on July 14, 2006, at 12:13:28
I can't make myself call and move up my appointment. I feel silly, foolish, and ashamed.
Yesterday I burst into tears and took a 2 hour nap. Part of my problem is that I'm getting a really poor quality of sleep right now, and it's making me all torn up with high emotion.
I guess I'll be stuffing this down back into the hidey hole until I see my T.
Posted by annierose on July 18, 2006, at 7:01:55
In reply to I can't do it, posted by ClearSkies on July 18, 2006, at 6:56:50
Don't stuff it too far down because it will take too long to get it to the surface again. My T would tell me that this stuff is coming up because our unconscious minds knows why we are in therapy --- so it does a lot of the work for us in bringing up stuff. Isn't that special?
Lack of sleep makes everything worse. I hope you can get that back soon.
Just when is your appointment?
Posted by Dinah on July 18, 2006, at 8:13:49
In reply to I can't do it, posted by ClearSkies on July 18, 2006, at 6:56:50
You are a wonderful writer, Clear Skies.
My therapist sometimes tells me that when I bring in posts he "gets it" much better than when I tell him in words.
Is it possible for you to gently allow yourself to write or journal about it? Maybe not to give her initially, but later to flesh it out? You can write as much ro as little as you want, to decide how close you want to keep it. And you can destroy it later. I've shredded many a therapy writings.
Posted by ClearSkies on July 18, 2006, at 10:12:47
In reply to Re: I can't do it » ClearSkies, posted by annierose on July 18, 2006, at 7:01:55
> Just when is your appointment?July 25th. I am so mixed up about this.
sigh.
I'm going to call, this is too much drama for me to contain.
Posted by ClearSkies on July 18, 2006, at 10:13:54
In reply to Re: I can't do it » ClearSkies, posted by Dinah on July 18, 2006, at 8:13:49
> You are a wonderful writer, Clear Skies.
>
> My therapist sometimes tells me that when I bring in posts he "gets it" much better than when I tell him in words.
>
> Is it possible for you to gently allow yourself to write or journal about it? Maybe not to give her initially, but later to flesh it out? You can write as much ro as little as you want, to decide how close you want to keep it. And you can destroy it later. I've shredded many a therapy writings.
That's a good idea (and I'm blushing at the compliment!).
CS
Posted by ClearSkies on July 19, 2006, at 8:16:42
In reply to Re: I can't do it » annierose, posted by ClearSkies on July 18, 2006, at 10:12:47
>
> > Just when is your appointment?
>
> July 25th. I am so mixed up about this.
> sigh.
> I'm going to call, this is too much drama for me to contain.
>
>I called and my T is on vacation this week. I had forgotten this; she told me a few sessions ago.
Had a good cry, feel sorry for myself, and haven't been able to write anything down yet. Next Tuesday will be here before I know it. Now I'm doubting whether my angst is something to talk to her about or not. Shame runs deep, deep.
Posted by Dinah on July 19, 2006, at 8:23:14
In reply to Wouldn't you know it, posted by ClearSkies on July 19, 2006, at 8:16:42
Don't let time give you second thoughts. There is something miraculously healing about sharing the thing you find shameful and having it accepted.
Posted by ClearSkies on July 19, 2006, at 11:36:07
In reply to Re: Wouldn't you know it » ClearSkies, posted by Dinah on July 19, 2006, at 8:23:14
> Don't let time give you second thoughts. There is something miraculously healing about sharing the thing you find shameful and having it accepted.
I know. Actually, I called my T's number again and left a message that I'd like to see her sooner than Tuesday. She'll be back in her office tomorrow. I'm still flubbering around today. Really unhappy and tearful. My husband is so puzzled and sad for me... I can't even share this with the person who loves me most.
Thanks, Dinah.
Posted by annierose on July 19, 2006, at 15:48:08
In reply to Re: Wouldn't you know it » Dinah, posted by ClearSkies on July 19, 2006, at 11:36:07
I'm so sorry. My T reminded me recently it's more than okay to have that pity party. I know that feeling well. To add to my somber mood, I even play sad love songs on my i-pod --- to keep with the theme. I'm glad you left a message for an earlier appointment. I usually tell my husband, I'm feeling sad (or overwhelmed ... fill in the blank) today. Can you give me a hug? or sometimes ... I just need to be left alone. He usually responds.
Posted by cloudydaze on July 19, 2006, at 19:01:09
In reply to Re: Wouldn't you know it » ClearSkies, posted by annierose on July 19, 2006, at 15:48:08
((((Clearskies))))
good luck.
Posted by Poet on July 19, 2006, at 19:38:41
In reply to Wouldn't you know it, posted by ClearSkies on July 19, 2006, at 8:16:42
Hi Clearskies,
If you can get yourself to write it down, do you think you can snail mail it to her? With the envelope clearly marked in bold print PRIVATE. CONFIDENTIAL.
I did that. I knew if I just wrote it down and tried to give it to her in person that I would either rip it up or keep it in my pocket and cry about it later. Once I put it in the mail, I couldn't get it back.
My elephant included a disclaimer saying I probably won't talk about this, please just acknowledge you got it. It's on the long list of things that she knows not to bring up unless I do. At least that elephant isn't hiding in plain sight now.
Postage even for big elephants is still 39 cents.
Poet
Posted by ClearSkies on July 19, 2006, at 20:40:26
In reply to Re: Wouldn't you know it, posted by cloudydaze on July 19, 2006, at 19:01:09
More later guys.
Posted by ElaineM on July 20, 2006, at 18:35:47
In reply to I'm seeing her tomorrow afternoon., posted by ClearSkies on July 19, 2006, at 20:40:26
Posted by ClearSkies on July 22, 2006, at 5:27:01
In reply to I'm seeing her tomorrow afternoon., posted by ClearSkies on July 19, 2006, at 20:40:26
> More later guys.
Well, I did it, I was able to look out her window (thanks, Dinah) and say the words through my tears. My T thinks that getting upset about this and being able to talk about it is a sign of further recovery from my alcoholism; that the deeper forgiveness of myself has to happen. It hurts, to feel this shame so completely and overwhelmingly.
It was a relief to be able to say it out loud, and to hear that I'm not a loser for feeling the way I do. Boy, it's been a long time since I saw myself as a loser. It's a familiar and horrible feeling - no wonder it made me cry so hard. It was not like taking several steps back, but like turning around and racing back to the starting line.
Now she wants me to write about it... that will be difficult, committing the past to paper. Even if no one ever sees the words, they'll be out there, out of the trap of my head. Why am I so afraid? There's no one to judge, no one to say to me "I have never gotten over what you did, what happened..."
Posted by Racer on July 22, 2006, at 12:20:55
In reply to Re: I'm seeing her tomorrow afternoon., posted by ClearSkies on July 22, 2006, at 5:27:01
I don't know if it helps, but I disclosed something to several people last weekend that has had me drowning in shame since high school. It's one of my Racer Is A Hopeless Shameful Loser things. Until last weekend, I'd disclosed what happened to my T, and to GG. I don't think I've even told my mother -- although that's coming.
Last weekend, I felt so horrible I told several other people, including my husband. My poor husband -- we had dinner with my aunt last Saturday, and she told him about something else that happened that shocked him, so he had a bucketful of my past. It upsets him, which is still hard for me to take. Anyway, I told these people in order to punish myself for being so shameful, I guess, but it had an unexpected (to me, at least) effect.
One person told me about a similar sort of difficulty she had at about the same time. She told me that what happened was something someone else did, and a reflection on the situation, rather than me. That helped.
The other told me something that totally realigned my view of it -- that the person who actually did this thing was joining in with the others who started the ball rolling. That was something I'd never thought of before, I just assumed that I was at fault, and that I had made his life difficult and should be ashamed of that. No. It's not my job to protect someone who is devastating me.
And while my husband didn't do or say anything earthshattering, he did look at me with a great deal of compassion, and he still loves me.
And you wanna know how I feel now? It's certainly not something I'd want the whole world to know about, and it's certainly not something I look back on with pleasure -- it was devastating, and it has had a lasting and negative effect on my life -- but now, instead of feeling quite so ashamed of what happened, I'm feeling more and more sad about it. That may not seem like such a great thing, CS, but grief is something I think I need to feel, in order to get past it, and the shame has to go away a bit in order for that to happen. I think that's starting to happen.
What I'm trying to say with all this is that, no matter how horrible your Elephant might be, you may be surprised at how healing it is to have shined a little light on it, and shown it to someone else.
I hope so. You deserve fewer tears, because you have such a charming laugh.
Posted by AuntieMel on July 24, 2006, at 12:01:54
In reply to Re: I'm seeing her tomorrow afternoon., posted by ClearSkies on July 22, 2006, at 5:27:01
I just saw this.
I have many things that I would feel enormous shame about - if I hadn't (finally) convinced myself that it wasn't *me* doing them, it was that dang bottle.
After all, if it was *me* doing it, would I feel shame?
Posted by ClearSkies on July 25, 2006, at 19:51:39
In reply to Re: I'm seeing her tomorrow afternoon. » ClearSkies, posted by AuntieMel on July 24, 2006, at 12:01:54
> I just saw this.
>
> I have many things that I would feel enormous shame about - if I hadn't (finally) convinced myself that it wasn't *me* doing them, it was that dang bottle.
>
> After all, if it was *me* doing it, would I feel shame?
>
>It wasn't the bottle that did this stuff. Cold stone sober. But maybe it was done as a knee-jerk reaction to living with an active alcoholic. He was lots of different 'holics, not just drinking. Right now, my defiance seems staggering. And deeply shameful.
The forgiveness is up to me. And I'm not so hot at forgiving myself *anything* so this will take some skill and time.
Posted by ClearSkies on August 1, 2006, at 7:49:30
In reply to Re: I'm seeing her tomorrow afternoon., posted by ClearSkies on July 22, 2006, at 5:27:01
..for the moment, it's acting like a red herring. I went back to revisit the times when I'd acted in a guilty and shameful way, and found that I felt like I would have done the same thing under the same circumstances now.
So was this something to not feel guilt over, or am I skirting the moral issues because they still carry so much weight with me? My T is not worried. She wants me to continue on with what we are doing, "take it easy" on myself, and when and if the time is right, we can work on it again. The way my feelings triggered such an enormous and overwhelming feeling of depression seems to me to be a sign that I'm not through with this yet. I admire my T for recognizing that maybe it's too large an elephant (or herring, or whatever) for right now.My Lamictal was bumped up to 300mg to help with the associated anxiety I've been experiencing. Makes me feel just like that elephant at the moment, but I am grateful for the respite.
ClearSkies
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