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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on May 1, 2006, at 2:45:31
I think I'm a horrible person.
My husband is going to go into therapy. He needs helping coping with our separation and he really wants to try marriage counseling. I'm not ready so I told him he had to go by himself first. He asked me to get a list of therapists for him and I did. He made an appointment with one for next week.
I found myself getting more and more upset at he told me about this. His appointment was for the same time as mine, in the same city. I wanted to question him more closely but I also don't want to know too much. I was just terrified that he had chosen someone in my therapist's office. Turns out the person he initially had an appointment with isn't on our insurance so he canceled that one. Now he has another, but in a different city. (whew) But still...I'm a wreck about this. I'm absolutely terrified that I'll be in trouble for what I've done. Some part of me is sure he is going in to tell on me. But it isn't about me -- it is about him. So, what is going on?! Do I not want him to work on himself and feel better? Do I not want him to have support and caring and kindness, especially since I have it with my therapist?
Like I said, I think I'm a horrible person.
Posted by fallsfall on May 1, 2006, at 7:45:31
In reply to So confused and upset, posted by Daisym on May 1, 2006, at 2:45:31
I'm glad he is going to go to therapy. He needs it.
I think some of this is your fear of "telling". You have done nothing wrong. So how can you be in trouble for it?
If I were you, I'd be afraid that his going into therapy might mean that you need to reevaluate your decision to leave. It was such a hard decision, that I would imagine you wouldn't want to make that decision again. And I think that you really don't believe that he could change enough for it to make a difference. So all the effort of reevaluating will leave you with the same decision you have now. Doesn't sound like fun to me!
I think that you DO want him to have more peace. But you want him to have it without you. Having him in indidividual therapy does NOT mean that you have to do marriage counseling.
You HAVE the ability to say "No marriage counseling. I've made up my mind on the marriage. It isn't healthy for me to reevaluate this." And isn't this what your therapist supports??
Try to take this one step at a time. He has therapy for himself so that he can be a happier person (and heaven knows he needs that!). This is about him. Not about you. His therapy will be about him and how he views and reacts to the world around him. It isn't about you.
Maybe you are afraid that his therapy will cause him to ask you questions that you don't want to answer? Like about the abuse? I know that you are terrified to let him know about it, and that you are afraid that he will use the information unfairly in a fight. You have been able to keep this information from him. But if he starts asking you specific questions it might be harder to keep your "secret"?
But, in all honesty, Daisy, he is much too selfish to get into your stuff at all. You can't get him to talk about you even when you try really hard. And you DO have the right to say "I'm not going to talk about that".
I'm glad he's going to get some help. He needs it.
Stay in touch
Love,
Falls
Posted by Rigby on May 1, 2006, at 14:12:31
In reply to So confused and upset, posted by Daisym on May 1, 2006, at 2:45:31
Hi Daisy,
I think Falls made some great points.
One that stuck with me was the having to re-evaluate the whole thing again. I'm not up on the specifics of your situation but I'm guessing leaving was one of the hardest things you've ever had to do. And to have someone make an effort that could lead to you having to say "no" again is brutal.
As I left my long-term relationship I was asked if I'd be willing to reconcile. It nearly killed me to say "no." But we all live through this stuff. And time helps immensely.
Keep writing. Take good care.
Rigby
Posted by Poet on May 1, 2006, at 15:15:40
In reply to So confused and upset, posted by Daisym on May 1, 2006, at 2:45:31
Hi Daisy,
I don't think you're a horrible person. A horrible person would not have gotten a list of therapists together.
<<I'm absolutely terrified that I'll be in trouble for what I've done. Some part of me is sure he is going in to tell on me. But it isn't about me -- it is about him.
You're right, it is about him. In his therapy sessions he'll be talking about himself. If his T is any good s/he will guide him back to talking about himself if he strays to talking about you.
I think it's very smart of you to advise him that he needs to see a therapist for individual therapy before any discussion of couples therapy. It looks to me that your leaving him blindsided him and he needs to work through why it happened. He had no idea it was coming and so then he has no idea of what his part was in bringing it about. His part- not anything you did.
As I said, you are not a horrible person. A horrible person would go to couples therapy to *work* on a marriage that in your heart you know is over. You are a caring person.
Safe cyber hugs.
Poet
Posted by bassman on May 1, 2006, at 15:41:48
In reply to So confused and upset, posted by Daisym on May 1, 2006, at 2:45:31
For a couple years after I got divorced I had this huge fear that somehow I was going to get sucked back into the whole disfunctional, sick thing again. I think it was because I was afraid of my ex-wife so much-she was capable of doing anything, no matter how cruel, to her own ends.
I keep my drapes closed after I moved out because I thought people were looking in and knew what a horrible person I was to get divorced. Sort of funny now. I, perhaps like you, just couldn't take any more emotional pain and had to get out of the situation: that was my crime. This really is a crazy time-don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Best of luck.
bassman
Posted by happyflower on May 1, 2006, at 16:05:13
In reply to Re: So confused and upset, posted by bassman on May 1, 2006, at 15:41:48
I read your message this morning, but I couldn't come up with what I wanted to say because this feels close to my heart.
First of all, you are not a horrible person. It is good your DH agreed to therapy. Mine hasn't.
But the thing that really gets me is that I also feel that my DH should get indivdual therapy before we even begin to do couples therapy. I am not sure I even want him anymore, and couples therapy would be a waste. Do you have kids? I forget.
But for the sake of my kids, I do want my DH to be the best he can be for them.
I think you are being so strong holding down your beliefs and doing what is best for you, not him. So what has your T said about all of this? Did he know ahead of time what you are going to do?
((((((Daisy))))) Knowing you, and knowing the huge step you took, lets me know that when I am ready , I will be able to too. Your stength had given me strengh. Thanks.
Posted by Pfinstegg on May 2, 2006, at 15:30:45
In reply to So confused and upset, posted by Daisym on May 1, 2006, at 2:45:31
Daisy, try not to be upset about that. You are not even the slightest bit horrible- you are great. Your life focus is now on your work and your (wonderful!) Master's Degree, all the progress you have made in therapy- and the progress you will continue to make, the growth and well-being of your sons, and building a new, separate life for yourself. Anything your husband does in therapy will take quite a bit of time (we all know that!), and, if he becomes healthier and happier, it will certainly benefit him and your children, and your dealings with him about your sons. IF it ever happens that you want to return to him, it will be because he has made a LOT of changes. You have been, and will be making your own separate changes, too. You are pretty far ahead of him in that. At this point, all of this, even as a possibility, is quite far in the future. You may well fall in love again with someone new, and remarry! Right now, just concentrate on you.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 2, 2006, at 16:44:39
In reply to Re: So confused and upset » Daisym, posted by Pfinstegg on May 2, 2006, at 15:30:45
Hi Daisy,
I hope you're feeling better today. When I read your post about your husband going to therapy, I felt some recognition. I think it's perfectly natural to worry about it and to feel that they might be "telling on you". It took me awhile to relax about my husband's therapy, because I worried about what his T would think of me. But I eventually came to be okay about it and reminded myself that even though she might be only hearing one side, her job was to help him, not to judge or not judge me.And I'm sure it adds to any conflicting feelings you may be experiencing about your decision to leave. That can't have been an easy decision, and I'm sure that you can come up with "justification" for going back. I think there are valid reasons to stay and valid reasons to go. And when it's not so hugely tipped towards one side (although maybe it is), it's a tough choice. And one that still pulls at you, I would bet.
However, I have faith in you and your decisions. I support you in this and in what you decide in the future. I wish I could make it all easier.
((((daisy))))
gg
Posted by Daisym on May 2, 2006, at 21:55:20
In reply to So confused and upset, posted by Daisym on May 1, 2006, at 2:45:31
The feelings that swirl around all of this are so confusing because I'm not sure what part of me is terrified. I've been talking about it with my therapist the past two days and we've reached two separate possibilities -- the trails lead to me being terrified of being made to go home if he is all "fixed." This definately stems from the very young part that never told my mom and couldn't defend myself against the sexual abuse. So much of the fear of telling was about not being believe or nothing changing, snuffing out the hope, I guess. And the other trail leads to his therapist telling him that my therapy is bad for our marriage and so if I would stop seeing my therapist, everything will be the same again. And somehow, someway, he figures out how to get me to stop therapy.
These are those rare sessions when my therapist is being firm, clear and not so gentle. He keeps painting the picture of what it was like, and how much it was destroying me to live in the anger. It is really hard to hear, yet I know he only is telling me back my own stories. He tells me I need to hang on, not fold up and not give in. IF I decide later on, after much discussion to try again, that's fine. Today he said, "isn't it interesting that you see yourself as a monster for leaving and I see it as the most healthy thing you've ever done for yourself...besides therapy, of course.(grin)"
Thanks for all the support. I'm just reeling from how hard this all is. I shudder to think about what might come next.
love and hugs,
Daisy
Posted by Annierose on May 2, 2006, at 22:16:53
In reply to Re: So confused and upset, posted by Daisym on May 2, 2006, at 21:55:20
Your T is wise. I agree. It is healthly to leave a home filled with so much anger. But I do sympathize and understand the struggle. Divorce is never easy. Never.
The two paths that your thinking lead to make perfect sense. You don't need your husband's T to believe your truth. That's one good thing about being a grown up, our decisions are our own, we own them and we can make them, despite what well-intended people might think about them.
I'm sure your husband does see your therapy as bad for HIM. But I think you gave yourself a gift of understanding, enlightment, hope for happiness, hope for the future --- isn't that good therapy for YOU. Yes. It is. It is Daisy. This is about you and your life, your happiness, your future.
Hang on. You made a GIANT, BIG decision. It's scary. But give yourself time. Sit with your decision. Trust me, you can go back to your husband anytime. It's more than okay to be without him for as much time as you need, even if you decide you need a lifetime.
You are worth love. You deserve a piece of happiness. You can do this.
Posted by fairywings on May 3, 2006, at 7:03:06
In reply to Re: So confused and upset » Daisym, posted by fallsfall on May 1, 2006, at 7:45:31
Hi Daisy,
Everyone knows how wonderful and kind you are, you're not horrible at all. I'm glad you've been able to make such a difficult decision. You didn't make it hastily, you've tried. It seems, from your posts, you've been in a marriage where you have a lot of fear, you're getting little or no love from your husband, and none of your needs met otherwise. It doesn't sound like there's any room to grow little daisy in that environment. Take her and let her blossom somewhere else.
It was really kind of you to pull that list together for him. It must feel threatening to have him going to someone in you T's office.
I had to wonder why he decided after all this time now was the time to get his act together, and why he made the decision to go with someone in your T's office - did he know they were from the same office? And could your T suggest to the other T there might be some conflict of interest, and not take your husband on as a client? I know the shock of having you leave maybe made him realize what he was losing, but is it possible, by asking for therapy, he was just to try to get you to stay? Didn't he understand before how much you were suffering, and how dysfunctional the marriage was? I was just wondering why he didn't try harder....sooner? Maybe he just always taken for granted you'd be there. I hope he's sincere about his realization he needs therapy. I hope whatever it works for him, so he can be happier with himself, and I hope he's doing it because he genuinely knows he needs to change so he can be happy.I can't imagine you're in trouble for anything. Seems you were just making a kind gesture. I hope you can move on and fulfill the potential you couldn't while you were being stifled in a bad marriage. It can't be easy to leave, but do you have some relief now that you've made the decision, and you've decided to move on with your life?
I hope your T will be by your side through all of this.
((((((hugs)))))
fw
Posted by bassman on May 3, 2006, at 7:13:48
In reply to Re: So confused and upset, posted by Daisym on May 2, 2006, at 21:55:20
Daisy,
Best of luck with this journey. What I find interesting is that I had exactly the same fears as you (getting somehow, involuntarily really, sucked back into the situation-and feeling bad about therapy), although I'm male and wasn't sexually abused. The getting sucked back in was a REAL fear, as in number one, and I don't know why-but then I mentioned this before. I think it was because I was so afraid of my ex-wife...could that be it with you, too? Just a simple, "If I just freeze in life, maybe nothing worse will happen (I called this "predictable discomfort")-but if I do some stuff on my own and assert myself, who knows what horrible thing will happen?". It seems like every woman I've ever talked to that was considering divorce was afraid of what the husband might do physically, as well, even when abuse seemed very unlikely.Again, best of luck. It takes awhile, like a couple years, to get things sorted out, so be patient with yourself and the situation. Again, best of luck.
bassman
Posted by fairywings on May 3, 2006, at 7:13:59
In reply to Re: So confused and upset, posted by Daisym on May 2, 2006, at 21:55:20
>And the other trail leads to his therapist telling him that my therapy is bad for our marriage and so if I would stop seeing my therapist, everything will be the same again. And somehow, someway, he figures out how to get me to stop therapy.
Your therapist is there to help you understand and know it was the marriage that was bad for you. The therapy only helped you admit it to yourself. I'm sure your T would fight back just as hard for you to do what's best for you, no matter what kind of pressure you get from your husband.
Like you said, your T is only telling you back how bad it's really been. Don't lose sight of that. I'm sure he's right....it was a healthy decision, but feeling ambivalence has to be really normal. Stick to your guns! Daisy was withering.
fw
Posted by bassman on May 3, 2006, at 7:45:52
In reply to Re: So confused and upset » Daisym, posted by fairywings on May 3, 2006, at 7:13:59
I know fw was doing nothing but being supportive, but here is another view. I have female friend of 35 years, got married to an abusive jerk (which was evident at the time, as it often is) and after many years,with great pressure and support from her T, got divorced. That was 4 years ago and she grieves the decision today as the worst thing she every did, and she is a Bad Person, she ruined her life, etc. My point is a simple one: T's don't know anything about us emotionally in any fundamental way, certainly not enough to tell us how to conduct our lives. The great value of T's is to help us to know what WE feel...and then let us decide what the solution is. When a T is too involved in making decisions in your life, you have simply traded one emotionally manipulative person for another. It doesn't matter at this point what the T thinks, it's Daisy's decision.
I'd also watch out for thinking about it as a "fight". A good friend T of mine once said, "think of divorce as a project, like getting a MA in business or accounting, etc." :>}The calmer you can make the process, the better-don't get sucked into old battles and don't try to get revenge-actually, go 180 degrees the other way and always try to be reasonable Five years from now, you'll sleep a lot better. That's my 2 cents-again, best of luck.
bassman
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