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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Voce on January 26, 2006, at 21:52:02
As some of you may remember, I signed a release form to get my old therapy records from treatment with T1. My second T, who is no longer treating me, helped me with this process. I signed the release form and asked the records be released to her so that there wouldn't be (so I thought) any problems. Well, it has been 3 weeks since I've signed this, and I hadn't heard anything from her so I shot her an e-mail and asked if she had heard anything. She replied and said that yes, she had received the records, but then had realized that since she is no longer working with that agency, that it is not within her rights to release them to me. So she sent them back. She asked that I call her to discuss the matter further.
I called her later on and she told me that most likely, the copies that she had sent back were probably still in my file and that I could go get them myself if I wanted to. She then told me that she had seen my ex male T, (apparently he is going to be adjunct faculty for the university she is now at) and she had mentioned to him that I had been trying to get ahold of my records. Now I understand that I am no longer her patient and that she is not bound by confidentiality. But I still wish she had not told him that because he expressed "concern" over my wanting them. He doesn't feel it will be healthy for me to have them and didn't think it was a good idea. And now of course, T2, who originally agreed to help me get my file, is back pedaling and made me kind of promise that I would come talk to her about it before I made any attempt to get them on my own.
I am so fed up and angry and I am going to try and put my thoughts in some logical order.
1. Is this professional snobbery on his part? Does he think I am not capible of taking his clinical notes in stride?
2. I have already talked to T2 about why I want these records. I will admit that I would like to have them as the last sort of tangible link to T1, but it's more than that. If I ever go into treatment again, it would be invaluable to have these because they are going to tell my treatment provider a lot more than just a treatment summary.
3. WHY THE HELL DOES HE CARE IF I HAVE THESE? NOTHING COULD BE WORSE THAN WHEN HE TERMINATED ME. I've already been through that hell!!! I grieved for him MONTHS, people. And he left me all ALONE to do it myself. He refused to communicate with me. He replies to my (bi-monthly) e-mails with only a few words. AND NOW HE FREAKING CARES THAT I WANT MY RECORDS???
Okay. I'm angry. I'll admit that.
Is it transference? Is this reasonable?
Should I just go get my records without talking to T2? She may try to talk me out of it.
T1 probably thinks I'm some kind of psycho obsessed woman to want these records.
Posted by gee on January 26, 2006, at 22:07:26
In reply to Just MAD, posted by Voce on January 26, 2006, at 21:52:02
I would be mad too! If I were you I would prolly just go and get them myself because then I wouldn't have to deal with anything else.
Good luck
Posted by LegWarmers on January 26, 2006, at 22:14:07
In reply to Just MAD, posted by Voce on January 26, 2006, at 21:52:02
Id be p*ssed too! And I agree with Gee, get them without T
Posted by muffled on January 26, 2006, at 22:25:09
In reply to Re: Just MAD, posted by LegWarmers on January 26, 2006, at 22:14:07
Sounds frustrating all right.
Maybe it wouldn't be the best thing?
Mebbe they care?
I wouldn't know.
Couldn't hurt nothin to see T2. You can still go get yer stuff.
I dunno.
Be safe.
Muffled
Posted by James K on January 27, 2006, at 0:04:39
In reply to Just MAD, posted by Voce on January 26, 2006, at 21:52:02
If you are in US, confidentiality doesn't go away when the professional relationship ends. In fact, you have more confidentiality after the professional relationship ends.
A current therapist could discuss you and your issues with an old treater with your permission, and could discuss with a colleague in his own institution, and for insurance and administration purposes. But they can't just gossip, consult, and disclose to each other about former clients.
It's part of HIPPA. If you are not US, I have no idea.You also have absolute right to your medical records, except for psych notes, which a provider can refuse to provide with cause, and there is some kind of recourse to appeal. I'm not a lawyer, I just retain information well. Research any of this before you take it as true.
I've said before, I'd personally rather not know. But what you want is up to you, not me and not paper shufflers at a business.
James K
Posted by Daisym on January 27, 2006, at 0:34:29
In reply to Just MAD, posted by Voce on January 26, 2006, at 21:52:02
As I recall, you've thought about this a lot. And you do understand what you are likely to get and how cold they will seem. So I think, if it were me, I'd request them directly.
BUT, I'd promise myself that if I started to get upset or confused, I would stop where I was and seek out support around this from T2. I guess you should expect some upset from the feelings that will resurface about T1 but it sounds like you are already upset enought about him. Do you think the original reason you were terminated is still true or do you doubt that?
Taking action will make you feel better. Good Luck!
Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 10:31:39
In reply to Just MAD, posted by Voce on January 26, 2006, at 21:52:02
I've asked for my records at nearly every doctor's I've been at, including psych ones. You don't always get the notes, but you're entitled to the rest.
But, and this is a big but, I think it's a good idea to have someone on hand when you read them. I was positively distraught when I saw the brief comments in my pediatric records. And this would be worse because you cared about T1.
So by all means go ahead and ask for them. But maybe you could establish a relationship either with T2 or with another therapist before taking them out of that sealed envelope.
Just my own thoughts.
(At a guess, it sounds like T2 freaked a little when T1 told her it wasn't a good idea, and she'd already promised to do it.)
Posted by gardenergirl on January 27, 2006, at 15:39:12
In reply to Re: Just MAD » Voce, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 10:31:39
It also depends on state laws. If your state gives you more rights than HIPAA, they supercede HIPAA. For example, in my state, a patient is entitled to ALL of their records, psychotherapy notes included.
gg
Posted by Voce on January 28, 2006, at 14:59:52
In reply to Confidentiality » Voce, posted by James K on January 27, 2006, at 0:04:39
That is a good point, James, thanks. My T has been fluid with her boundaries, which I thought was a good thing, but she obviously is fluid with HIPPA too. I am in the US and am more familiar with FERPA, as it applies to academic records, but the idea is the same.
I know I can get these notes, it's just being labled as a "bad" patient going against my T's wishes that makes me hesitate.
Posted by fairywings on January 28, 2006, at 20:33:09
In reply to Re: Just MAD » Voce, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 10:31:39
> .I was positively distraught when I saw the brief comments in my pediatric records. And this would be worse because you cared about T1.You mean your records all the way back to your pediatrician were still kept? How long are psychiatric records kept?! This is scary.
Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2006, at 9:51:12
In reply to Re: Just MAD, posted by fairywings on January 28, 2006, at 20:33:09
My psych records had long since been destroyed (darn it). But the psychiatrist worked at the same institution as my pediatrition, and brief notes were on my pediatric records. They were still available on microfiche.
Posted by Voce on January 29, 2006, at 22:27:57
In reply to Re: Just MAD, posted by Daisym on January 27, 2006, at 0:34:29
The more I think about it, the more I think I may just go get them. The door is open right now. This doesn't mean I have to read them. In fact, that doesn't appeal to me right now. I wonder if that will change once I actually have them in my possesion.
I wonder if I will feel like I can look to T2 for support, in the event that I read them, or if she will say, "I told you so."
Posted by Voce on January 29, 2006, at 22:31:17
In reply to Re: Just MAD » Voce, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 10:31:39
<At a guess, it sounds like T2 freaked a little when T1 told her it wasn't a good idea, and she'd already promised to do it.>
Now that you mention it, that was kind of the vibe I got from her. The sort of freaked-out-trying-to-cover vibe.
That doesn't make me any less mad at both of them. To do this makes me a bad patient, anyway.
Thanks for your thoughts, Dinah.
Posted by Dinah on January 30, 2006, at 10:03:16
In reply to Re: Just MAD » Dinah, posted by Voce on January 29, 2006, at 22:31:17
It doesn't make you a bad patient.
It makes you an empowered patient.
And for the most part professionals of any sort prefer that their patients not be all that empowered. :) It's less trouble to them.
Posted by Voce on February 1, 2006, at 13:09:02
In reply to Re: Just MAD » Voce, posted by Dinah on January 30, 2006, at 10:03:16
<It doesn't make you a bad patient.
It makes you an empowered patient.
And for the most part professionals of any sort prefer that their patients not be all that empowered. :) It's less trouble to them.>Dinah, I think you may have given me the courage to go over to the clinic and get them (the records) myself.
My T and I talked a lot about assertiveness/empowerment. Now I'm actually BEING assertive, trying to do what *I* think is the best thing for me, and he is trying to stand in my way. Funny how things come full circle like that...
When it comes down to it, the buck stops here.
(I've got to keep telling myself that.)
This is the end of the thread.
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