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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 100 to 124 of 232. Go back in thread:
Posted by Poet on December 7, 2005, at 10:48:37
In reply to Re: handouts - my opinion, posted by Deneb on December 5, 2005, at 15:37:48
Hi Deneb,
I think you've summed it up really well. They'll give the pdocs and others, we'll be meeting in small groups with, an idea of who we are and what we'll be talking about.
How will the large group be broken down into small groups? Pre-assigned, so many attendees to a poster? Any insight as to how that will work?
Poet
Posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 14:23:53
In reply to Re: handouts - my opinion question for Dr. Bob » Deneb, posted by Poet on December 7, 2005, at 10:48:37
APA web-page about the meeting:
http://psych.org/edu/ann_mtgs/am/06/Presenters
Dr. Bob
Kali Munro
AuntieMel
Annierose
ClearSkies
fallsfall
Dinah (maybe)
ghost
Deneb
10derHeart (maybe)APA small groups presentation will take place on Mon. May 22 from 9-10:30 am at the Toronto Convention Centre
> http://www.mtccc.com/parkingandmaps.cfm (ClearSkies)
________________________________________________________________________
Online Peer Support Groups -- and Support Group Members
The Internet empowers patients by connecting them not only to information, but also to each other. This workshop introduces participants to two specific online peer support groups, one small and private, the other large and public. The moderators of the groups explain how the groups function, including what the goals of the groups are, how the group members interact, what topics are discussed, how the moderators moderate, and what the pros and cons of the groups are. The focus of the session, however, is small group discussion with group members about their experiences with this type of resource. In this workshop, in other words, patients are empowered to teach doctors. All participants regroup for concluding questions and answers.If people who couldn't be there wanted to contribute something in writing, maybe we could work that in somehow? (Dr. Bob)
___________________________________________________________________Perhaps those who cannot attend could contribute to a poster session (gg)
___________________________________________________________________The focus of the session, is small group discussion with group members about their experiences with this type of resource.
If anyone wanted to present something to the group as a whole, that would be great, but I was thinking there might be more interaction if after I gave a little introduction we split up into small groups, and there I think you could just answer questions...(Dr. Bob)
_________________________________________________________________I think a diverse group of posters would mean a range of perspectives, which would add to the experience.
I doubt real names would be necessary. They'll have mine and Kali's...(Dr. Bob)
___________________________________________________________________> > If you plan to distribute handout materials at your workshop, they must be approved in advance by the Subcommittee on Workshops. You need to submit a copy of the material ... by February 4, 2006.
>
> And regarding confidentiality:
>
> > We want you to be aware that APA has an open press policy at all scientific sessions during the meeting... For the purpose of news reporting, members of the media who have been credentialed by the APA Press Room may audio/videotape and/or take notes during any or all of these presentations except when patient confidentiality might be compromised or a presenter specifically requests no audio/videotaping by the press be permitted.
>
> Should I request no taping by the press? No note-taking, even?
>
> Bob
___________________________________________________________________________My first idea is that it might be good to have (at the very least) a handout of brief quotes from Babble users…
I would say it might be a good idea so say no taping, but to allow note-taking, unless all the Babblers who will be present (a) don’t mind being taped; or (b) prefer not to allow note-taking.
>
> Tamar
___________________________________________________________________________Maybe you can do some general polls on here and summarize it on a handout. Maybe ask how often we visit the website, how helpful we find it, our level of participation, how many of the boards we use/participate in, etc. Just make it anonymous. And you can also ask things like if we have a tdoc/pdoc, have we told them about our participation in a board like this. Or something like, if our tdoc/pdoc had suggested using a support website like this, would we have taken their advice and joined. The list can go on and on and on. Since these are Drs, I'm assuming they'll love seeing numbers to back up whatever is said. I know I would! I love charts and graphs. :-D
thuso
_______________________________________________________________________
>I'm OK with audio and note taking, but not video.
> CS
______________________________________________________________________
> > Will there be at least two of us in each small group?
>
> I was thinking 1 poster per group would mean more and therefore smaller groups, but if people are more comfortable doubling up, that would be fine, too.
>
> > Are all the attendees psychiatrists (MDs)? Will they be interested in medication management or in psychological things or both?
> >
> > fallsfall
>
> It's mostly psychiatrists, but not exclusively. I assume there will be interest in both. (Dr. Bob)
____________________________________________________________________________
> > >I just need to know who's coming
> >
> > When do you need to know by?
>
> I don't know, 5/1? That would give us 3 weeks to finalize things? What do you all think? (Dr. Bob)
_________________________________________________________________________
I personally think doing some surveys on here would be a great addition to a handoutAnd if you wanted people who aren't going to be given a chance to write something for a handout, that will take a lot of time also. (thuso)
________________________________________________________________________
> If I were attending this presentation, I think I'd like to see a description of the different boards, maybe some user statistics, etc. on a handout.
>
> gg
___________________________________________________________________________
Maybe we can describe the purpose of each board and how they are used. We can give some statistics about rates of posting and numbers of posters on each board (Deneb)
________________________________________________________________________
> > > We definitely need to describe the various boards and show statistics on participation.
> >
> > Agreed. Should we come up with new descriptions of the boards or use the ones Dr. Bob gave us? Should we show statistics for each board or in general for the site?
> >
> > > Some segments of actual threads would be interesting to include. Show our different takes on things. We wouldn't have to include posting names.
> >
> > That's an interesting idea. Is there a page limit on the handouts? Can we do a small PowerPoint presentation?
>
> Whatever you all would like to contribute is fine, but remember, what's unique is your experience and point of view...
>
> Bob
_________________________________________________________________________
> Perhaps each of us should do our own personal handout with our *unique experience and point of view?* The format could look the same, just content would vary.
>
> Plus some threads showing other points of view, too. Different takes from different posters.
>
> Poet
____________________________________________________________________________
> I don't think that each person doing their own handouts will really be feasible.> So you have to think that the handouts have to be ready before 2/4 and they have to be approved in advance. On top of that, I'm assuming that they will have copies made for each presenter rather than them having to bring their own. I think it will be too chaotic for them to have to guess the number of copies of each handout to make and then keeping everything seperate and in order. It's a heck of a lot easier for them and us to make one handout. There is nothing that says it can't be multiple pages. So if people want to make individual handouts, it will probably need to be part of a packet that everyone gets rather than seperate handouts for each small group. I've helped put on conferences like this (almost as large), and I would have wanted to kill a presenter if they tried something like this because of the amount of work and inconvenience it would cause. I think either creating a universal handout that deals in generalities or a multi-page packet with some of our personal experiences (but kept simple) would be best.
>
> But remember, the participants will probably take away from the presentation more from what you actually say than the personal experiences you have printed on a handout. At least, I would.
thuso
____________________________________________________________________________
> I'm not preparing anything at this point, Dinah. I'm going to go to Toronto to sit there and let people ask me questions. Unless we're otherwise requested, I don't see that there are any standard guidelines for us to follow for preparing handouts of our own. Maybe this is what Dr Bob is doing???
> I'm getting better at Wait And See.
> ClearSkies
________________________________________________________________________
> Maybe we need something to focus on, and maybe then we can decide how we want to put it together for a handout.
>
> I was thinking: if I had the opportunity to teach a bunch of therapists one thing, what would I want them to learn? And why is it important?
>
> Is that a question that appeals to anyone else? If so, we can discuss it a little and open up ways of demonstrating the things that are important to us by including (for example):
> Things we’ve learned here
> Discussions or threads that were significant to us
> What kinds of things we come to Babble for
> Things we find useful about Babble
> Things we find frustrating about Babble
>
> So, for example, if I wanted to teach therapists to understand clients’ confusion (or even desperation) about transference feelings, I’d probably write a couple of paragraphs about how people have supported me on the subject; how I’ve tried to support other people; how I’ve felt reading some of the things others have said about their transferential discussions with their therapists; and a note about the many newcomers who post to the psych board about transference and then don’t return. I wonder what happens to them; whether they tell their therapists, and whether their therapists handle it well or badly.
>
> As for putting the handout together… Is there anyone with experience of this kind of thing who would like (or be willing) to take overall responsibility for its structure and content? I imagine it would have to be on the understanding that others would contribute.
>
> I hope I’m not stepping on any toes here…
>
> Tamar
________________________________________________________________________
My idea was just that Kali and I would provide some background, we'd divide into small groups, posters would discuss their experiences here, and we'd come back together again at the end.
>
> Maybe what's not clear is what exactly "discuss" means? I thought Tamar had good ideas:
>
> > Things we’ve learned here
> > Discussions or threads that were significant to us
> > What kinds of things we come to Babble for
> > Things we find useful about Babble
> > Things we find frustrating about Babble
>
> But don't go overboard in terms of preparation. It'll also be important, as ClearSkies said:
>
> > to sit there and let people ask me questions.
>
> There's probably a lot that you take for granted that they'll be clueless about!
>
> Bob
_________________________________________________________________________
> I've been thinking about this, and I think perhaps we don't want to lose the focus of the session by trying to "teach" therapist about things like transference. I think what they will be interested in is the experience of on-line support itself - as Tamar said, why we come here and what we get from it. I think the exact issues are more or less background, it is more about why we come here to talk about them. Maybe we are all saying the same thing.
>
> I'm thinking about the letter I wrote a long time ago trying to explain Babble to Fallsfall's therapist -- it was about support between sessions. And I think there should be some acknowledgement that there has been disagreement as to whether discussing things here interferes with an individual's therapy. If I was attending, I think this is what I would want to convey.daisym
__________________________________________________________________________
> I don’t want to go into a lot of detail about my personal history, but the broad issues are things I think could be discussed in the session, if people want to. And the handout could perhaps provide a bit more depth.
>
> I think the issue of support between sessions is a really important one, and something that could generate some interesting discussions!
>
> Tamar
________________________________________________________________________
> > I guess one question I'd be interested in is who is the target audience? Are these pyschopharmacologists or people who do therapy? Or people who do mainly prescribing, but are interested in other aspects of psychiatric self help.
>
> It's hard to know who's going to show up. Sorry about all the unknowns!
>
> > Are you presenting Babble as mainly the medication board? Or more as the support community? Is the emphasis on Babble as a community where supportive relationships can be built? Or on Babble as a source of information?
>
> I think it's both, so I'll try to present it that way. But FYI, I usually Google Effexor to demonstrate how people find Babble. Maybe I should post something at the main board so posters there can get involved, too?
>
> Bob
__________________________________________________________________________
The interest could lie in questions about the accuracy of information on Babble, the implications of early side-effect information (we all knew many of the side effects the doctors and drug companies are only now admitting), and how much trouble Babble is likely to cause them in encouraging us to try to be our own doctors as opposed or challenge their opinions.
>
> Or the interest could be in how Babble contributes or detracts from the therapeutic relationship. Fears about being negatively judged by posters. Or interest in how we encourage each other to be open and disclose things to our therapist that we might be otherwise unwilling to disclose.
>
> Or the interest could be more along the nature of how well the internet can serve as a source of peer support. What problems could crop up by participating.
>
> Or the interest could lie somewhere I can't even imagine.
>
> Individual poster/presenters may vary widely in their knowledge of and interest in these and other various topics. And I see some potential for embarassment or awkwardness.
>
> Maybe if we were more familiar with the contents of your presentation, we'd be more able to feel comfortable with our ability to be assets to the presentation?Dinah
___________________________________________________________________________
...the main idea is for you all to have an opportunity to say what's important to *you*, for example:
>
> > Things we’ve learned here
> > Discussions or threads that were significant to us
> > What kinds of things we come to Babble for
> > Things we find useful about Babble
> > Things we find frustrating about Babble
>
> I guess there might be questions along other lines, but if it's something you don't feel willing or able to address, I think it would be fine just to suggest that they ask in another small group or after we all regroup together.
>
> Bob
___________________________________________________________________________
Posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 14:35:54
In reply to Summary of info about Toronto APA meeting, posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 14:23:53
Posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 14:49:33
In reply to Sorry if I left anyone out above (nm), posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 14:35:54
Posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 15:04:48
In reply to Re: what is expected, posted by Poet on November 25, 2005, at 8:32:01
>I won't do my own handouts, just notes for myself in case I get so nervous that I can't remember my own name.
I'm afraid of the same thing! I haven't presented anything in front of a group of people since high school. I was always extremely nervous while presenting.
I'm seriously thinking of the worst right now. What if I panic and hyperventilate and faint and hit my head and forget who I am and don't know how to get home and get lost in Toronto? LOL Or, what if I run away and hide in a corner somewhere? OMG that would be soooo embarrassing. What would people think?
What should I wear? Professional attire? I don't have professional attire.
OMG, what will people think? What will people think if I start to freak out? "Hey, come look at the girl who's freaking out! I wonder what her problem is? Wow, she's really making a fool of herself!" Aaaahhhh!
Deneb
Posted by fallsfall on December 7, 2005, at 20:42:48
In reply to Anxiety about meeting, posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 15:04:48
I figure that I'll just show up.
I am going to let Dr. Bob do the "presenting". I'm just going to talk about how Babble works in my life and to answer questions if I can. And if I can't answer the questions I'll say "Gee, I don't know". And then they'll ask a different question. I don't know what I'll wear. Maybe something nice, but not a linen suit or anything. Maybe I'll wear my jeans. I don't think that will matter much. I talk about Babble a lot with many people who I know. So I'm pretty used to talking about Babble. This time it will just be with people who I don't know (and who I'll never see again ever in my life, and who won't know my real name).
I guess I'll have a way to introduce myself to the small group (how long I've been on Babble, how I found it, how long I've been in therapy, what role Babble fills in my life).
Deneb, you would be in good hands if you hyperventilate and hit your head. There will be lots of doctors there. 8^)
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 7, 2005, at 23:46:10
In reply to Re: handouts - my opinion question for Dr. Bob » Deneb, posted by Poet on December 7, 2005, at 10:48:37
> How will the large group be broken down into small groups? Pre-assigned, so many attendees to a poster? Any insight as to how that will work?
Good question. I don't know, what if we just see how many small groups we'll have and have them count off?
Bob
Posted by Deneb on December 8, 2005, at 12:01:29
In reply to Re: Anxiety about meeting » Deneb, posted by fallsfall on December 7, 2005, at 20:42:48
> I'm just going to talk about how Babble works in my life and to answer questions if I can. And if I can't answer the questions I'll say "Gee, I don't know".
OK, "Gee, I don't know." That's a good idea for when I freeze up and can't think of the answer.
> I don't know what I'll wear. Maybe something nice, but not a linen suit or anything. Maybe I'll wear my jeans. I don't think that will matter much.
It's good to know that. I don't have any suits.
> I talk about Babble a lot with many people who I know. So I'm pretty used to talking about Babble. This time it will just be with people who I don't know (and who I'll never see again ever in my life, and who won't know my real name).
I've never talked to anyone besides pdoc1 about Babble. I don't really talk to people on a regular basis because I don't have friends IRL. It's going to be scary for me, I hope I will be coherent.
> I guess I'll have a way to introduce myself to the small group (how long I've been on Babble, how I found it, how long I've been in therapy, what role Babble fills in my life).If I'm actually able to speak coherently, my stories will be quite shocking I think. How I found Babble eh?...Well, you see, I was trying to find message groups to post a request for someone to help me kill myself??? OMG. Oh yeah, did I mention that sometimes I'm obsessed with Dr. Bob and sometimes I e-mail inappropriate e-mails to him and I even threatened my life because I thought everyone at Babble was against me?? OMG.
I will try my best. I hope I will be interesting (assuming I will be able to speak of course).
Deneb
Posted by fallsfall on December 8, 2005, at 15:26:38
In reply to Re: Anxiety about meeting » fallsfall, posted by Deneb on December 8, 2005, at 12:01:29
You know, Deneb, if we didn't each have an interesting story, we wouldn't be here.
Do you think that Babble has helped you to get a better handle on what is going on in your life, and helped you to identify behaviors that are helpful for you and ones that are not helpful? Did it help you to bring certain things up with your therapists? Do you consider us to be your friends? If so, why is it easier for you to connect with us than with people IRL?
You have a very interesting story to tell.
Posted by Dinah on December 8, 2005, at 18:31:12
In reply to Re: Anxiety about meeting » Deneb, posted by fallsfall on December 8, 2005, at 15:26:38
If individual posters talk to small groups, different small groups could come out with waaaaay different ideas about Babble. Like the blind men feeling the elephant.
But I suppose that's Dr. Bob's problem, not ours.
Posted by 10derHeart on December 8, 2005, at 19:27:01
In reply to Re: Anxiety about meeting, posted by Dinah on December 8, 2005, at 18:31:12
Good point.
I hadn't envisioned it happening quite that way, but then I could be confused about the poster to group ratio thing.
I guess I thought I'd wait and see if the concept sort of got fleshed out and more specific as this thread continued on.
Besides, wouldn't it be a bit disconcerting at the least, if not downright uncomfortable or worse (at least for some) to have only one poster with a small group? Not that I (or others) are particularly "afraid" of pdocs, so to speak, but do you know what I mean..?
Or else I'm totally off track and have misunderstood entirely. This feels like where Eeyore would say, "oh, bother..."
Posted by Dinah on December 8, 2005, at 20:21:07
In reply to Re: Anxiety about meeting » Dinah, posted by 10derHeart on December 8, 2005, at 19:27:01
Ah good. Yes, that would be much better. :)
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2005, at 21:26:09
In reply to Re: Anxiety about meeting, posted by Dinah on December 8, 2005, at 18:31:12
> If individual posters talk to small groups, different small groups could come out with waaaaay different ideas about Babble. Like the blind men feeling the elephant.
What if the psychiatrists didn't have to stick to one small group the whole time?
Bob
Posted by annierose on December 9, 2005, at 6:20:52
In reply to Re: waaaaay different ideas about Babble, posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2005, at 21:26:09
No one chooses to come to our forum? Or, it could be the babblers with just 1 or 2 attendees.
Maybe that would be a good thing?
Posted by muffled on December 9, 2005, at 9:59:31
In reply to Re: What if ..., posted by annierose on December 9, 2005, at 6:20:52
> No one chooses to come to our forum? Or, it could be the babblers with just 1 or 2 attendees.
> Maybe that would be a good thing?**Not that I'm going, but ya, what if you were sitting there and noone wanted to talk to you...YUCK! Perhaps this is just me and mt insecurities showing.
Muffled
Posted by Deneb on December 9, 2005, at 12:11:13
In reply to Re: waaaaay different ideas about Babble, posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2005, at 21:26:09
> > If individual posters talk to small groups, different small groups could come out with waaaaay different ideas about Babble. Like the blind men feeling the elephant.
>
> What if the psychiatrists didn't have to stick to one small group the whole time?
>
> BobThat's what I was thinking would happen. We could rotate the small groups. Each poster or posters would present several times to different groups.
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on December 9, 2005, at 12:34:37
In reply to Summary of info about Toronto APA meeting, posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 14:23:53
> APA web-page about the meeting:
> http://psych.org/edu/ann_mtgs/am/06/
>
> Presenters
> Dr. Bob
> Kali Munro
> AuntieMel
> Annierose
> ClearSkies
> fallsfall
> Dinah (maybe)
> ghost
> Deneb
> 10derHeart (maybe)
> Poet>
> APA small groups presentation will take place on Mon. May 22 from 9-10:30 am at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre
> > http://www.mtccc.com/parkingandmaps.cfm (ClearSkies)
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Online Peer Support Groups -- and Support Group Members
>
> The Internet empowers patients by connecting them not only to information, but also to each other. This workshop introduces participants to two specific online peer support groups, one small and private, the other large and public. The moderators of the groups explain how the groups function, including what the goals of the groups are, how the group members interact, what topics are discussed, how the moderators moderate, and what the pros and cons of the groups are. The focus of the session, however, is small group discussion with group members about their experiences with this type of resource. In this workshop, in other words, patients are empowered to teach doctors. All participants regroup for concluding questions and answers.
>
> If people who couldn't be there wanted to contribute something in writing, maybe we could work that in somehow? (Dr. Bob)Who cannot attend but wants to contribute something in writing? How would we work that in? Would posters make sense? If we do posters, you should probably have something by April. You can send what you write to someone on the committee and we can put it on poster paper for you. I volunteer to do this. I can even take a picture of the poster and post it online for you to see. :-) Hmmm...where would we put the posters during the presentation? Are there going to be walls or tables nearby?
RE: Handout
Lets write down things we want on the handout now and somehow put it together. Post what you want on the handout and we can discuss how we want to put it together.Deneb
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 17:08:34
In reply to Re: waaaaay different ideas about Babble, posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2005, at 21:26:09
I think I was hoping that your presentation would take up most of the time. :)
I'm not altogther sure I'm self confident enough for this. :(
Posted by fallsfall on December 9, 2005, at 18:57:47
In reply to Re: waaaaay different ideas about Babble » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 17:08:34
I'm hoping that they will have questions for us. And we can just answer them the best we can. And if we don't know the answer we can say "I don't know". Or even "I'll ask that question on the board - you can look there for the answer".
We could have a set of generic "questions" to start with or if things get slow:
How did you find Babble?
How often do you read/post?
What role does Babble play in your life?
What has Babble helped you with?
What problems has Babble caused?
What is the difference between online support and IRL support?
Does your therapist know about Babble, what do they think of it?
What would you do if you didn't have Babble?
What do we talk about on Babble?We could each ask our own therapist/pdoc what questions they would want answered if they went to something like this.
We could have a whole list of these questions, so if they don't have any questions for us, we can get the conversation started.
We can also ask THEM if they have any experience with their patients reading things online.
When I think of it as a conversation rather than a presentation, it is a little less scary for me.
As for splitting up into groups:
I think that no poster should have to do a group by themself if they don't want to. Probably many of us would rather have at least 2 posters to a group. Maybe we should say that the "normal" number of posters in a group will be at least 2.
I don't like the idea of people wandering from one group to another. Too much potential for making one of us feel unloved. We don't need that!
Maybe we can come up with a couple of scenarios so that when we find out how many posters/attendees there are we will already have a plan:
1. If there are fewer than 10 attendees, we stay as one group.
2. If there are lots of attendees and not too many posters, we ask for subjects that they would like covered, and then posters who want to talk about that topic form a group around that.
3. Or the posters pair up (or whatever) and chose the topic that they would most like to talk about and then the attendees can go to the group that is most interesting to them.
4. Or if there are a few number of groups and the discussion time isn't too short, we could divide them into groups and have the poster teams rotate through the groups so they get to talk to more than one poster.
5. If a group feels like they are in "trouble", there should be some way to call Dr. Bob over and he should help get the discussion going (is that OK, Dr. Bob?)
Dr. Bob, when the time comes, can you find out how big a room they are giving us? That should say something about the maximum number of attendees.
If nobody comes we'll have our own party.
Dr. Bob can remind them before we split up that we come to Babble because we have mental health issues - so they should use their best doctor manners with us! And we ALWAYS have the right to refuse to answer a question if we are uncomfortable. I think that we and the doctors really will be wanting the same thing - to increase their understanding of online support groups - so we'll all be working in the same direction.
Posted by 10derHeart on December 9, 2005, at 20:12:31
In reply to Re: waaaaay different ideas about Babble, posted by fallsfall on December 9, 2005, at 18:57:47
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 20:13:27
In reply to Re: waaaaay different ideas about Babble, posted by fallsfall on December 9, 2005, at 18:57:47
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 20:15:34
In reply to Can I call dibs on your group? (nm) » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 20:13:27
Sigh. You sound like you know what's going on. And I'm just lost in a sea of confusion. Every explanation Dr. Bob gives just sinks me further into blank idiocy.
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 21:43:55
In reply to Falls, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 20:15:34
Posted by muffled on December 9, 2005, at 22:01:07
In reply to I really feel dense :( (nm), posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 21:43:55
Welcome to my world Dinah!!!
I think your brave.
Muffled
Posted by fallsfall on December 9, 2005, at 23:22:23
In reply to I really feel dense :( (nm), posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 21:43:55
Don't feel dense. None of us have done this before!
They'll love us! Because we are lovable!
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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