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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2005, at 7:22:16
Is it me? Yesterday she invited me to attend church with her. She started talking about sinners and how we are all sinners and that dog has a plan for us. I know I had this horrified look on my face. We've discussed spirituality before and I've made it clear that I'm not comfortable with organized religion, that when I visit my mum I go to church with her out of a sense of duty, and I know the tunes :-)
I ended up telling my therapist that it was highly unlikely that I'd be attending a church of any kind. I was amazed that she had suggested it in the first place. It felt intrusive and presumptuous of her. Am I being overly sensitive? Is it normal for therapists to offer spiritual guidance??I'm going to talk to a different T this morning. I'm worried about how to terminate the one I've been seeing. Do I just stop making appointments or do I tell her that she is freaking me out?
ClearSkies
Posted by Dinah on November 1, 2005, at 7:27:00
In reply to I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate., posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2005, at 7:22:16
Theoretically I believe in talking it out.
In practice, I made an appointment as usual and called and cancelled and terminated over the phone with a spurious excuse. A big chicken I am.
I do think she was inappropriate in both this and in other things you've told us. Some therapists use spirituality in their practice, but even they aren't supposed to suggest any particular church, I don't think. Or to press churchgoing on people who aren't so inclined.
Posted by allisonross on November 1, 2005, at 8:49:00
In reply to I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate., posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2005, at 7:22:16
> Is it me? No.
Yesterday she invited me to attend church with her.
This was unethical/inappropriate...a boundaries violation.
She started talking about sinners and how we are all sinners and that dog (Did you mean God? LOl, LOL) has a plan for us.
T's are NOT supposed to use their biases, thoughts, etc.....they are there to listen to YOU and help yu with your stuff. NOT their beliefs, etc.
I know I had this horrified look on my face. We've discussed spirituality before and I've made it clear that I'm not comfortable with organized religion, that when I visit my mum I go to church with her out of a sense of duty, and I know the tunes :-)
That right there told you she was disrespecting you by proselytizing (I think thats spelled right); that means preaching at you, etc.
> I ended up telling my therapist that it was highly unlikely that I'd be attending a church of any kind. I was amazed that she had suggested it in the first place. It felt intrusive and presumptuous of her.
Always trust your gut. It WAS "intrusive and presumptuous of her"
Am I being overly sensitive?
No, and i always am disturbed at the thought "too sensitive" we all have feelings, and they are facts....not right or wrong...just facts (on my soapbox now, LOL); we react to things however it hits us; we should NOT question our feelings...they are there to tell us something....always trust your gut; that's why we have the intutition thing.
IIs it normal for therapists to offer spiritual guidance??
Not unless you ask for it.
>
> I'm going to talk to a different T this morning. I'm worried about how to terminate the one I've been seeing. Do I just stop making appointments or do I tell her that she is freaking me out?I believe (my bias, LOL) in being authentic. Simply tell her the truth. She should have known better to use her own construction, thoughts, beliefs on you. Very disrespectful....ESPECIALLY since she knew how you felt about organized religion.
(for my sordid story, which will just reinforce what you think, LOL); my site: www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com (voted out of 31-year church membership, cause I got a divorce after 31 years of abuse), fought the system for 18 months. In the end (on my birthday, no less),
Was called to a meeting of deacons (16 "men") not allowed to have a woman with me and asked: 'are you still having sex with your ex'?! My name put up on a big screen, followed by the words: CONDUCT UNBECOMING A CHILD OF GOD. Long story!
So, enough about ME, what do YOU think about ME, LOL, LOL.....Wonderful to meet you here. I've also been published with the psychs! www.psychiatricjournal.com...entitled; The Transcendent Child on Overcoming Verbal and Spiritual Abuse
Look forward to getting to know you (pretty new here)
Grins, Ally
>
> ClearSkies
Posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2005, at 9:47:44
In reply to I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate., posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2005, at 7:22:16
> Is it me?
It's not you. That was very inappropriate. I would tell her so if you feel up to it, but if you don't, I would cancel appointments. You really don't owe her an explanation. Telling her why you are terminating might help in the future, but I would only worry about it if it's going to help you.
It's not normal for therapists to do this. Some use spirituality more than others, but it's supposed to be within the bounds of what's comfortable for the client. Honestly, you could probably complain to the state Board of Psychology if you were so inclinded. But again, only if it helps you.
I hope that your next T is the "just right" one, Goldilocks. ;)
Take care,
gg
Posted by Annierose on November 1, 2005, at 12:34:58
In reply to I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate., posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2005, at 7:22:16
I agree with the other posters. Our instincts do work if we can hear them, "run, fast, this doesn't feel right." I'm glad you already put into action another plan. I hope GG is right, and the new T is "just right".
Posted by alexandra_k on November 1, 2005, at 13:39:33
In reply to I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate., posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2005, at 7:22:16
no, thats not appropriate.
i knew someone who was doing volountary work for age concern and part of their thing was that they were NOT allowed to talk to their clients about religion.they would turn a little bit of a blind eye if volounteer and client were of the same religious beliefs and wanted to discuss it but aside from that - not appropriate.
i had a t who had some funny spiritual beliefs once. she would tell me how people spontaneously combust because their emotions get out of control and about how my voices were inner spirit guides etc.
I told her in the first session that I didn't believe in that stuff.
But she persisted because... It is part of her world view. The way she sees the world. The way she makes sense of the world.
I only lasted a couple more sessions. We couldn't relate.
I think it is fairly inappropriate.
And in general... I think things go much much better if you have similar beliefs to your t because it is a world view thing. And sometimes it is about the sorts of explanations you are likely to accept as well.
I dunno.
I have to say... I don't have much time for it.
And I most certainly don't think you are over-reacting.
Posted by Damos on November 1, 2005, at 14:51:30
In reply to I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate., posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2005, at 7:22:16
Hey CS,
Yep I reckon it's over the odds too, especially given you had already your feeling about it previously. So no, I don't think you're being oversensitive in the least.
Hope you find the T that's just right for you.
(((ClearSkies)))
Posted by antigua on November 1, 2005, at 19:10:27
In reply to I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate., posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2005, at 7:22:16
Clear Skies, I think you send out a special vibe for Ts--you've certainly had some interesting ones! Keep looking, you'll find one, and try to stay away from the ones that even have the remotest chance of abandoning you in the near future. You need some stability, and someone who will be focused on you and not them.
Just my unasked for opinion,
best,
antigu
Posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2005, at 19:26:49
In reply to Re: I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate. » ClearSkies, posted by antigua on November 1, 2005, at 19:10:27
I went to see a prospective T today. Generally I have to say that the therapists I have tried who are on my insurance plan have been really bad!! When I stopped working last spring I thought I was being smart and saving money.
It went well today. I'm sooo cautious about starting with a new therapist. This one works in the same building my old T (who retired her practice) worked in, so the familiarity was very comforting. She's much more perceptive than *anyone* I've seen so far, picking up immediately on when I'd become anxious while discussing some subjects. I've never had that experience before, and it made me feel like she's much more obervant than my previous T's.
Finally, it would seem that the standard of care where I live is much lower than where I used to live (moved from the northeast to the south). That's the only conclusion I've been able to come to.Thanks, Antigua - and to all who responded to this thread.
CS
Posted by fallsfall on November 1, 2005, at 20:15:15
In reply to Re: I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate. » antigua, posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2005, at 19:26:49
This new therapist sounds much better than the old one. Perceptive therapists are wonderful. I hope it goes well for you.
(And the old one was out of line, in my opinion)
Posted by Poet on November 1, 2005, at 21:10:45
In reply to I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate., posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2005, at 7:22:16
Hi Clearskies,
I think your T is very inappropriate. I can see a pastoral counselor offering spiritual guidance, but not a regular T. No way.
You are not overly sensitive. Your T has leaped over a boundary. Leap the other way.
Poet
Posted by fairywings on November 1, 2005, at 22:45:27
In reply to Re: I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate. » antigua, posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2005, at 19:26:49
This one sounds like a much better fit, I think I'd give her a chance.
fw
Posted by Jen Star on November 2, 2005, at 11:00:04
In reply to I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate., posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2005, at 7:22:16
apart from this, is she a good T? Has she been helpful?
I think it would be good to confront her, kindly, and tell her firmly that it made you uncomfortable that she asked you such a thing. You could tell her it sounded/felt like prosetylizing, that you think it's something she shouldn't be doing, and that you think it caused a big rift in your therapy. Then see what she says.
Do you think that if she apologized/etc. that you could repair the damage and keep working with her? Or is this too big a problem?
I personally wouldn't report her anywhere - it seems to be jumping the gun. I'd give her a chance to explain and see what she says.
Another poster, I think, we encouraged by her T to see a priest and it's working out really well. So maybe your T has had experiences where religion has helped people, and she's just trying to provide you with lots of options. Maybe she's bringing it up -- and explaining the potential benefits -- the way people might discuss acupuncture, eye motion therapy, regression, etc. Just as another "therapeutic" technique, or something that could help. Some therapists disclose that THEY have tried certain techniques or drugs. Maybe she's telling you that religious works for HER just as an example of one person it's helped.
Just a different opinion to chew on! :)
let us know what you decide!JenStar
Posted by caraher on November 2, 2005, at 14:17:13
In reply to Re: I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate. » ClearSkies, posted by Jen Star on November 2, 2005, at 11:00:04
> Another poster, I think, we encouraged by her T to see a priest and it's working out really well. So maybe your T has had experiences where religion has helped people, and she's just trying to provide you with lots of options.
Jen, I think it makes a BIG difference that, rather than encouraging the patient to look within an *existing* spiritual framework, this T both suggesting attending the T's church ("this" church as opposed to "a" church of your choice) AND accompanied it with a speech about God's plan, etc. That's not therapy, that's an attempt to steer someone to the T's religion.
I had a friend whose T started out nonjudgmental then, after many months, one day unloaded a big religion-based "you're lesbian and that's as bad as any other sin" speech on her. This was in a rural part of Minnesota. So it's not just a southern thing...
The new prospective T sounds like a good match. I'm glad that went well!
Posted by ClearSkies on November 2, 2005, at 16:19:07
In reply to Re: I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate. » ClearSkies, posted by Jen Star on November 2, 2005, at 11:00:04
This T gets no second chance from me. We had discussed spirituality multiple times in the past, and I've made my position clear. She hasn't bothered to review her notes from session to session; she asks me the same questions over and over. Every time I see her I say - "I'd really like to learn better techniques for reducing my anxiety" - and it never ever gets addressed. It's one frustration after another, and we keep butting heads as she does not listen to my words nor remember them.
If she can't be bothered to remember why I'm seeing her and what my therapy goals are - that haven't changed since we started - then I can't be bothered to continue therapy with her. The church invitation was really the last straw.
Posted by fairywings on November 2, 2005, at 18:36:50
In reply to Re: I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate. » Jen Star, posted by ClearSkies on November 2, 2005, at 16:19:07
> This T gets no second chance from me. We had discussed spirituality multiple times in the past, and I've made my position clear. She hasn't bothered to review her notes from session to session; she asks me the same questions over and over.
Don't you just HATE that?!
> If she can't be bothered to remember why I'm seeing her and what my therapy goals are - that haven't changed since we started - then I can't be bothered to continue therapy with her. The church invitation was really the last straw.
>
You're so right, and good for you! She shouldn't be practicing if she can't do better than that by her clients. She's got an agenda. I think I'd write her a good long letter and give her a piece of my mind!fw
Posted by fairywings on November 2, 2005, at 18:39:25
In reply to Re: I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate., posted by caraher on November 2, 2005, at 14:17:13
>
> I had a friend whose T started out nonjudgmental then, after many months, one day unloaded a big religion-based "you're lesbian and that's as bad as any other sin" speech on her. This was in a rural part of Minnesota. So it's not just a southern thing...That just s*ucks! Period! Why do ppl get into counseling when they have an agenda like that? How's your friend doing now. Did she swear off of therapy forever or get a new T? Did she report that one, or give them a piece of her mind?
fw
Posted by Jen Star on November 2, 2005, at 23:03:50
In reply to Re: I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate. » Jen Star, posted by ClearSkies on November 2, 2005, at 16:19:07
Well, it definitely sounds like you'll be much better off without her. I hope your new T works out much better, and is able to help without preaching! Good luck! :)
JenStar
Posted by Jen Star on November 2, 2005, at 23:06:59
In reply to Re: I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate. » ClearSkies, posted by fairywings on November 2, 2005, at 18:36:50
I agree with fw that you should definitely let her know that what she did upset you and that you feel it's inappropriate.
It's always much easier to SAY this than DO it, but would you be comfortable confronting her "live" or on the phone to make her explain herself? But at least a letter would let her know that what she's doing is wrong. She's made you uncomfortable, uneasy and unhappy -- she should be made to know about it!
But still, even if you don't feel she's worth the effort to do this, I sure hope your new T is much better. :)
JenStar
Posted by Jen Star on November 2, 2005, at 23:08:35
In reply to Re: I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate., posted by caraher on November 2, 2005, at 14:17:13
Yes, I guess it does sound more judgemental than what I was hypothesizing. Definitely inappropriate. I guess some T's just are not able to keep their own personal beliefs out of the room...I wonder if that T does this with every client, eventually? Once they open up to her, she hits them up with her story? hmmmm...
JenStar
Posted by caraher on November 3, 2005, at 9:54:17
In reply to Re: I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate. » caraher, posted by fairywings on November 2, 2005, at 18:39:25
> That just s*ucks! Period! Why do ppl get into counseling when they have an agenda like that? How's your friend doing now. Did she swear off of therapy forever or get a new T? Did she report that one, or give them a piece of her mind?
At the time she really had no alternatives, so she simply dumped that one and did without, but without swearing off therapy forever. She's now in the LA area and still needs help (and prodding to get it), but I don't think she took that experience as anything more than an indication of a class of therapists to avoid.
Posted by fairywings on November 4, 2005, at 18:39:19
In reply to Re: I keep thinking my therapist is inappropriate., posted by caraher on November 3, 2005, at 9:54:17
> At the time she really had no alternatives, so she simply dumped that one and did without, but without swearing off therapy forever. She's now in the LA area and still needs help (and prodding to get it), but I don't think she took that experience as anything more than an indication of a class of therapists to avoid.I hope she gets back into therapy, and this time with someone good. Keep prodding! ; )
fw
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