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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LittleGirlLost on August 12, 2005, at 13:25:41
Hello.... it's me again, the sporadic poster. :)
I know this is something that many of us here struggle with so I am hoping someone can shed some light on this.Can someone please tell me why? I understand there is probably not a cut and dry answer, but that isn't helping me. I even told T last night that I am looking for a magical answer. There HAS to be something....
WHY does it hurt so much when I leave her? I feel young, little, scared, sad, feel like I will die, extremely anxious, worry... everything. I feel like I have no concept of time. No understanding that we have a set appt time on Thursdays, and nothing I do helps with that. (She says that children are like that; have no concept of time.)
There is NO reason for me to feel like this. She's never missed a session, and usually only takes 2 - 1 week vacations a year. She lets me call her, always calls back, responds to emails; she is ALWAYS there. So WHY do I still have these feelings?
And the kicker... I told her last night that they are getting worse!! Shouldn't they be getting better? Or at least be staying the same? WHY would they be getting worse? Seriously, WHY?
Her explanation is that I am feeling this way for a reason. I must have felt this way when I was little and needs were not met. And my personal favorite (NOT) "it must be very difficult for you to feel this way." She seems to understand my feelings, but between what I'm not saying, and my fear of crying, there is no way her (or anyone) would understand the intensity of these feelings. Please someone tell me WHY. :(
I see her Thursday night and usually call her when I get hom from work on Friday (or over the weekend if I can last), but this week I don't want to. I mean, I DO want to, but I don't *want* to want to. I don't want to feel like I have to. (Not "have to" by her, but have to for what feels like survival.) Does that make sense?
This is crazy! I even noticed last night that I kept the session light, because if I talk about something more vulnerable, I will only end up feeling worse when I leave. I really cannot take these feelings anymore. If it were anything else, I would stay away from something that is causing me to feel this way! But I don't want to leave her, because I understand (i guess) that "she", as a person, is not the problem.
Can anyone help? I'm tired of feeling so sad... and when I'm not sad, I'm thinking about her and that makes me sad. :(
~lgl
very l, lgl
Posted by LadyBug on August 12, 2005, at 15:44:15
In reply to Why? why? why?, posted by LittleGirlLost on August 12, 2005, at 13:25:41
Oh my gosh I could have written your post!!! I feel the same way exactly as you described it. I left my therapists office last week feeling so bad I told myself I'd never go back. I can't stand the way I feel sometimes when I leave. It has gotten better over the years but it still happens and when it does I just want to die!! I didn't make another appointment with her because of it. I can't stand the way I feel when I feel like that. So I thought if I don't see *Her*, I don't feel this bad!!! Then all I could do if feel worse because I didn't know what to do next. I fnally called her and left her a voice mail. I don't mean to tell you my struggles. I want to figure out why it's hurts so dang bad too. I plan to talk to her next week. I've been seeing her for over 8 years and this still happens!!! I don't want to continue therapy if doesn't get better!!! I can't take the pain of the sad feelings any longer!!!
Hugs and best of wishes to ya!
Posted by Daisym on August 12, 2005, at 15:48:31
In reply to Why? why? why?, posted by LittleGirlLost on August 12, 2005, at 13:25:41
(((LGL))))
I will try and find an article for you over the weekend about insecure attachments. It helped me understand more about why I feel the same as you do. Separation anxiety for adults is horrid...it feels like you are going to die. And no amount of rational thought or listing of concrete things is going to help. It is a fragmentation of sorts and you need to reach out to your therapist to touch base in order hold yourself together.
My therapist has said that it probably doesn't matter much what he says when I'm like that, just as long as he doesn't blow it. It is about hearing his voice, the fact that he called back, the fact that he still is out there somewhere. Therapist permanence -- a hard concept to hang on to!
It hurts worse because you care more. And as you open these wounds with her, fear and doubt creep in and whisper, "you told her too much this time...you came close to crying...what is she thinking now?!" and on and on. And the truth is, the issues that are being discussed are not easily placed in a box until the next time you see her. So I think part of the longing is to have someone listen to your truths and your pain, and not have to mask those. The person you want to be with is her. I'm very isolated in this way which is why I see my therapist so much.
People who can attach securely are confident that the relationship won't just suddenly rupture. People who don't attach at all don't worry about it. They don't need their therapist. People like you and me, who desperately want to be nurtured and cared for, but are deathly afraid of being too dependent, swing back and forth on this pendulum. I don't think it is something you can easily control. And I don't think it matters what she says or does right now. It will take a long time of consistency to prove to your scared little self that she isn't going to leave you or hurt you or hate you for what you told her.
My therapist tells me it eases off organically, over time. I keep saying "how much time?" I was in tears leaving yesterday and I remarked how I was back here again, needing to touch base with no real reason or crisis. He said that was fine, it ebbs and flows, not to fight it so much. I try not to, but it doesn't work. So I know what you mean about needing to hold yourself back, to break what feels like a horrible addiction. I'll ask you what my therapist always asks me, "Does your attachment to me feel all bad? Is there any part that feels good?"
I really do feel for you. My suggestions: journal, post, talk to friends, especially ones who understand therapy or have gone through it themselves, post, talk in Open, read psych books with case studies (Yalom is good for this), watch movies, post... I bet other people have other good suggestions. Don't isolate. I do this, but it makes it so much worse.
I'll check in over the weekend. Please let me know how you are doing.
Posted by LadyBug on August 12, 2005, at 17:01:15
In reply to Re: Why? why? why? » LittleGirlLost, posted by Daisym on August 12, 2005, at 15:48:31
I needed to read your post as well! GREAT words and I understand exactly what you are saying! I'm going to do some research this weekend too. This is my current issue too. I does come and go.
LadyBug
Posted by Daisym on August 12, 2005, at 17:57:33
In reply to Re: Why? why? why?, posted by LadyBug on August 12, 2005, at 17:01:15
I'm glad I could help. I write as much for me as anyone else. I complain sometimes that I spend half of my therapy time talking about therapy itself and how I feel about my therapist and how hard it all is. I say things like, "I should be spending time on the 'real' issues..." and he shakes his head and says "this IS the issue and a big part of your therapy."
I'm glad I can talk about it because I can't imagine keeping it a secret. It is just too painful for that.
Posted by LadyBug on August 12, 2005, at 23:41:21
In reply to Re: Why? why? why? » LadyBug, posted by Daisym on August 12, 2005, at 17:57:33
Daisym
I have had the oportunity to think about a lot of things since you wrote you post. My therapist actually called while I was at work and left me a thought provoking message as well. I was home alone tonight, the kids were gone, hubby went to bed and it was just me. I was out on my deck as the sun went down and the sky was beautiful. I lit a candle on my table and waited for it to get dark. I replied to my therapist's message and told her I wished she were here with me sitting across from me in the chair and we were doing therapy. It was pretty cool actually. After I hung up, I thought ok I can pretend she is here, I'll just talk to my puppy instead. She was sitting on my lap so I began to talk as if my therapist was sitting across from me. Wow, I didn't realize I could have such a great session by myself! LOL She should have been there with me! LOL I opened up some thoughts and I will have to share with her when I see her next. It won't be till next Fri. due to my schedule and hers.
What I want to say to you, Daisy, is "THANK YOU" for posting what you did. It was just the right thing to get me to think about what I'm going through. And I can add to my thoughts all week and we will have a loaded session!!! Too bad my one person session tonight didn't really include my therapist. It would have been great sitting on the deck, the candle flickering, cricket's singing, the doggie sitting on my lap and just a nice tempature to go along with it.
OK troubled minds have to help each other out here.
Hugs'
LadyBug
Posted by Daisym on August 15, 2005, at 14:17:19
In reply to Re: » Daisym, posted by LadyBug on August 12, 2005, at 23:41:21
Here is the link to the article I was talking about re: secure and insecure attachments.
http://www.trauma-pages.com/steele-2001.htm
It is long but worth wading through. I hope it helps.
Posted by LittleGirlLost on August 15, 2005, at 15:08:14
In reply to Re: Why? why? why? » LittleGirlLost, posted by LadyBug on August 12, 2005, at 15:44:15
>>> Oh my gosh I could have written your post!!! I feel the same way exactly as you described it.
LOL and I just read your post above, "Where I'm at in therapy" and I thought the same thing! In fact, the way you ended it, something about failure, I said the exact same thing to my T the other night!
Oops, I just accidentally deleted the rest of your post!
You said that you've been with your T for 8 years and it has gotten better, but is still there. That is both hopeful and discouraging to me. Hopefull that it will get better, but discouraging to think of it lasting that long! I can feel fine when I go, in fact I usually do; then I leave and it all starts up again (as I'm sure you know). What's weird is that it's like I'm calmed the minute I walk in her door and have often commented to her on that. I never enter her office in crisis or anything. Even after a hard week and a bad day at work, I look forward to seeing her, but as soon as I walk in it's like I leave my troubles outside. That is actually not such a good thing because then I forget everything I wanted to address. I just hate that I leave and feel like I'm in such turmoil... it usually lasts a few days till I can get her out of my mind, but sometimes it lasts until the day before I see her again. Oh, it's bad.
sigh
~lgl
Posted by LittleGirlLost on August 15, 2005, at 15:59:05
In reply to Re: Why? why? why? » LittleGirlLost, posted by Daisym on August 12, 2005, at 15:48:31
Hi Daisy,
Thanks for your response though it feels so difficult for me to respond now as I feel very detached from the feelings... and everything, really.
There is more I want to say, but am having a really difficult time gathering my thoughts (or focusing long enough to do so).
I want you to know though that after reading your response to me on Friday, I did call my T even though I told myself I wouldn't. (Thank YOU for making me feel like it was okay!) T and I didn't talk for long, we usually don't, but I wish I can remember exactly what she said. She basically reassured me (as always) that it is okay to call and that I needn't torture myself like that. She even said I can call again if I want! She always says that though. I just don't remember exactly what she said, but apparently I don't bother her like I think I do. Sorry, I can't really concentrate today.
~lgl
Posted by LadyBug on August 16, 2005, at 0:35:04
In reply to article linke, posted by Daisym on August 15, 2005, at 14:17:19
Thank you so much!! I haven't read it yet, I went to copy and past it into word to print out and it was 46 pages long. Oh well, I might still do it that way!! LOL
This work can be so hard! Is it worth it? I told my T that I'd rather give up therapy and call myself a failure than go through this pain I feel sometimes. She said then you would just have a different kind of pain and you wouldn't feel successful. Maybe not but I can't stand the pain, the thought of being a failure sounds better to me than going through this!
I go on Fri. and she is going to get an ear full of my frustrations. I've got it all written down and I'm still writing!!!
Hugs and much Thanks~
LadyBug
Posted by jadah on August 16, 2005, at 18:29:29
In reply to Why? why? why?, posted by LittleGirlLost on August 12, 2005, at 13:25:41
it is ok to cry and feel vulnerable. your t can help you only as much as you are willing to help yourself. To keep things in will only fester more pain.YOU ARE ONLY AS SICK AS YOUR SECRETS! Therapy is strange medicine in a sense that you have to feel worse before you feel better. You do want to feel better right? Dont hide from your past, it only keeps you a victim and gives power to those who have hurt you. Those people have gone on with their lives and here you are... stuck. Youre letting them win. Also, I have found that the less superficial I was in therapy the more response I got from my T. I never got a hug until I opened the flood gates and cried like an infant. I let my guard down and became vulnerable and you know what... i didnt die, my t didnt abandon me, and what do you know? I was able to put myself back together!
Posted by LittleGirlLost on August 18, 2005, at 14:22:43
In reply to Re: Why? why? why? » LittleGirlLost, posted by Daisym on August 12, 2005, at 15:48:31
>>> Separation anxiety for adults is horrid...it feels like you are going to die. And no amount of rational thought or listing of concrete things is going to help. It is a fragmentation of sorts and you need to reach out to your therapist to touch base in order hold yourself together.
"And no amount of rational thought... etc."
Could this be why no matter what I do to show myself that Thursday WILL come again, it's not enough to comfort me? It's like even looking at a calendar doesn't help because it's not good enough proof, ya know? I try to watch the weather forcast every night and wait to see Thursday come up in the 5-day forcast so I know that it IS coming, but even that is not as helpful anymore.She does encourage me to call her when I want to, I just wish it were that easy. I'M the one that gives me a hard time about calling.
lgl
Posted by LittleGirlLost on August 18, 2005, at 14:30:16
In reply to Re: Why? why? why? » LittleGirlLost, posted by Daisym on August 12, 2005, at 15:48:31
>>> I don't think it is something you can easily control. And I don't think it matters what she says or does right now. It will take a long time of consistency to prove to your scared little self that she isn't going to leave you or hurt you or hate you for what you told her.
:(((
:::whine::: but whyyyy? and how much time?
I'm looking for a magical solution so that I don't have to feel this way week after week. And she has proven consistency to me... [Isn't that good enough (I ask myself).] I'm afraid she will give up on me if it takes much longer.lgl
Posted by LittleGirlLost on August 18, 2005, at 15:26:49
In reply to article linke, posted by Daisym on August 15, 2005, at 14:17:19
Looks like a great article, Daisy. Thanks so much for posting it! (Not to mention I love reading this stuff!)
Didn't realize how long it was; I printed it out to read better. :)
LGL
Posted by LittleGirlLost on August 18, 2005, at 15:31:30
In reply to Why? why? why?, posted by LittleGirlLost on August 12, 2005, at 13:25:41
I almost wish I didn't have therapy tonight. I don't want to have to hurt all over again. I have enough other stressors right now. I feel so little and i don't wanna do this.
right now i think the only good thing is that i told her last week that i made a bunny at Build-A-Bear and she said I can bring her with me tonight! yay!! but i am still scared.
i feel little and i don't like sitting in the big people chairs.llll lgl
Posted by Daisym on August 19, 2005, at 12:30:34
In reply to It's Thursday.... SO nervous, posted by LittleGirlLost on August 18, 2005, at 15:31:30
How did it go? Did it help to bring your bunny? I've brought a friend like that once.
How are you feeling today? I just wanted you to know you aren't alone out there.
Daisy
Posted by LittleGirlLost on August 22, 2005, at 8:53:55
In reply to It's Friday now... » LittleGirlLost, posted by Daisym on August 19, 2005, at 12:30:34
> How did it go? Did it help to bring your bunny? I've brought a friend like that once.
>
> How are you feeling today? I just wanted you to know you aren't alone out there.
> DaisyHi Daisy,
Thank you SO much for thinking of me. And I apologize for not responding sooner, but my computer at home has been giving me trouble, so I have to read the board at work when I can.
It went ok I guess. We talked about it, and believe it or not, I think that helped some. I didn't feel AS bad after leaving, so I guess that is good. I don't remember much about the session; it seems I've been dissociating a lot. I told her that I was nervous about being there because I feel so awful when I leave. I even told her that I wasn't fully there for the same reason. She said she understands how painful it must be for me, and to not be able to hold on to the connection. I just nodded my head yes. However, I don't know if that's completely it. I mean I do have a hard time holding on to the connection, but I also find that it's almost easier to try and forget that she exists when I'm not there because if I do think of her I get sad. I didn't want to tell her that though.
I felt much more comfortable when I was leaving and wish I could have stayed; it takes me toooo long to warm up.
And yes, I brought Bunny!! T liked her and she even held her the whole time!! Sometimes I bring my doll, and she likes her too. She said I could bring whoever I want. Sometimes I feel silly, and sometimes I feel in my belly that I just have to bring her. Maybe now I will rotate with my doll and Bunny.
And I didn't call her the next day like I usually do! I didn't feel as panicky. It started a bit last night though so maybe I will call today; I don't know. Now I'm afraid that if I don't call she will forget about me.
Thank you for thinking about me Daisy; you are very kind. :)
~LGL
This is the end of the thread.
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