![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 12, 2005, at 20:57:12
I shouldn't hold my breath... I know. But... Well, it actually sounds rather promising.
A while ago when we were looking at my treatment options within the service (before getting the assessment and looking externally) p-doc said that there were 3 p-docs within the service who had interest / experience with my condition. But they were all full up and not interested in taking me on.
I rang up to check how I was going on that waiting list... P-doc had forgotten all about me with respect to putting me on the list! But apparantly I'm not going on the list anyway. He is making a specific referral for me to see one of those three, and so I won't have to wait (is what I'm being told anyway). That is good because the wait list is 3 months. I might have to wait till one of them get an opening, though. Or maybe one of them will be able to pass on a couple of their cases or something. I don't know.
I know it isn't exactly a terrific start with my knowing that they have been approached about me before and they weren't keen :-(
But... Most people aren't keen about me. If we get on then sometimes they don't mind me so very much over time, though.And I'm used to the first few months being about countering their assumptions anyways. I don't mind that so very much. I actually find it interesting how much different clinicians vary with respect to counter-evidence. And with respect to the grace with which they back down and revise their initial opinions (based on my file and reputation).
So...
I know I shouldn't get my hopes up...
But it might just turn out ok.
:-)
Posted by alexandra_k on July 12, 2005, at 20:58:51
In reply to I might... be getting a p-doc :-), posted by alexandra_k on July 12, 2005, at 20:57:12
So long as they don't start fighting about who is going to have to see me :-(
Posted by pinkeye on July 12, 2005, at 21:24:48
In reply to I might... be getting a p-doc :-), posted by alexandra_k on July 12, 2005, at 20:57:12
As always, I think the problem with you is that you are some sort of highly intelligent person.. Maybe quite frankly, you might know more than some of the therapists, seeing what you are writing..And maybe that is quite the problem.. Sometimes if the patients know too much, the physicians lose interest.. They think "Oh. she already knows everything, what am I going to tell her".. But in fact, knowing and being able to experience happiness is quite different.. many people don't understand that even if a person seems to know everything, she still needs adequate therapy and teaching to learn to experience happiness.
So when you go to pdoc, I would probably advise, don't tell them all you know. Or maybe tell them, that you read a lot and you have ended up lots of information, but you don't know how to use them for yourself. That might help and maybe will open them up more instead of perceiving you as resistant to treatment
Posted by alexandra_k on July 12, 2005, at 22:27:21
In reply to Re: I might... be getting a p-doc :-) » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on July 12, 2005, at 21:24:48
Mmm.
I think I try to be careful...
They don't often ask me what I think - they just launch into what they think.
But then I get to comment on what they have to say.
So I do tell them what I think. But in bits. As it is suitable. I think it probably is true that I've thought about it a hell of a lot more than they have. They come to know me over time...
I gave one of my old p-doc's a paper I had written on it - but that was in our last session together.
He emailed me - mostly to say that he got lost with the transition to the philosophy stuff.
Sigh.
Still, it confirmed that I am used to writing to an audience of philosophers (who have a tendancy to get lost with the transition to the mental illness stuff.)
Sigh.
But then he wasn't academically inclined...
But I hear what you are saying and I am careful.I would hope they know that knowing something rationally is different from experiencing it.
I would hope that they would feel excited about my willingness to think hard about stuff and my ability to think rationally (at times).
If they aren't...
Well... Then we aren't suited to each other, really.
But yeah, it makes it something of a problem.
Most certainly with community mental health where I think the average client might have something like 3 years of secondary school...I guess it depends on how much they are prepared to try to work WITH me
Or how much they are used to talking AT someone and giving them drugs.
It is up to them it is up to them
But that being said I appreciate that there are things that I can do to make that easier...
Posted by gardenergirl on July 13, 2005, at 9:00:09
In reply to Re: I might... be getting a p-doc :-), posted by alexandra_k on July 12, 2005, at 20:58:51
Maybe they will fight over who *gets* to treat you?
Good news, anyway. I wish you a good connection with a caring and knowledgeable pdoc!
gg
Posted by GreySkyEyes on July 13, 2005, at 9:56:29
In reply to I might... be getting a p-doc :-), posted by alexandra_k on July 12, 2005, at 20:57:12
you might be pleasantly surprised... some p-docs like it when you are knowledgeable. if I may interject with some personal experience... I had a p-doc who had a superior "sit down and don't hurt yourself" attitude, but now I have one who seems to really enjoy our conversations when I mention books I have read, or treatments/ studies I've learned about. our sessions actually run over half the time.
I agree with gg, maybe they'll fight over who "gets" to treat you! look at you as a challenge to take on - I mean that in a nice way! some Ts/p-docs like patients who keep them on their toes. :)
Posted by Jazzed on July 13, 2005, at 14:59:18
In reply to I might... be getting a p-doc :-), posted by alexandra_k on July 12, 2005, at 20:57:12
Finally! I'm so happy for you! Be sure to keep us posted on how it goes.
Jazzy
Posted by cricket on July 13, 2005, at 16:02:29
In reply to Re: I might... be getting a p-doc :-) » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on July 12, 2005, at 22:27:21
> Mmm.
> I think I try to be careful...
> They don't often ask me what I think - they just launch into what they think.
> But then I get to comment on what they have to say.
> So I do tell them what I think. But in bits. As it is suitable. I think it probably is true that I've thought about it a hell of a lot more than they have. They come to know me over time...
> I gave one of my old p-doc's a paper I had written on it - but that was in our last session together.
> He emailed me - mostly to say that he got lost with the transition to the philosophy stuff.
> Sigh.
Well at least he admitted it.> Still, it confirmed that I am used to writing to an audience of philosophers (who have a tendancy to get lost with the transition to the mental illness stuff.)
> Sigh.
> But then he wasn't academically inclined...
> But I hear what you are saying and I am careful.
Maybe I am biased because of my pdoc and his extensive training in so many areas. But I think that all psychiatrists should have some kind of training in philosophy. They are dealing with the way we view the world, the way we view ourselves. I mean they are psychiatrists, not plastic surgeons.
> I would hope they know that knowing something rationally is different from experiencing it.
> I would hope that they would feel excited about my willingness to think hard about stuff and my ability to think rationally (at times).
> If they aren't...
> Well... Then we aren't suited to each other, really.
> But yeah, it makes it something of a problem.
> Most certainly with community mental health where I think the average client might have something like 3 years of secondary school...
>
Exactly. So I think it would be refreshing for someone to get a chance to work with you. And maybe more challenging in some ways, but certainly more fulfilling too.
> I guess it depends on how much they are prepared to try to work WITH me
> Or how much they are used to talking AT someone and giving them drugs.
Yeah, I guess that's it. It's probably an easier living just to talk at someone and give them drugs. But how boring!
> It is up to them it is up to them
> But that being said I appreciate that there are things that I can do to make that easier...
Alex, I think the right p-doc will be delighted to have you, just as you are, as a patient. He just has to find you :)
Posted by alexandra_k on July 13, 2005, at 16:45:39
In reply to Re: I might... be getting a p-doc :-) » alexandra_k, posted by cricket on July 13, 2005, at 16:02:29
Thanks everyone.
I just think...
That they have enough relatively straightfoward cases in community mental health, enough cases where they just have to dole out meds, enough cases for them to seriously try their hardest to avoid anything different. Anything that requires more time / energy. I mean... I'm not sure how many clients they would need to drop from their workload to see me. If they typically see a client once a month... And I get to see them weekly... Then that is four people who basically just go to be given meds / meds review.And they have already indicated they were unwilling. To the point where I was told that nothing was available...
So... I don't know.
I appreciate that things are different in private practice.
After I hurt my legs (a couple years back now) I basically got told that there wasn't anybody suitable to treat me: therefore I don't get treatment. And that was that. I eventually managed to get assigned to a new psychologist who was appointed (and so hadn't heard about me) but then she terminated me... And then p-doc felt sorry for me when I was in hospital over that termination. So I guess I figured that turning down the external funding was just them reiterating that. So I would get nothing. But I guess this has me thinking that maybe they will try and treat me from within the service after all. But I don't know. I shouldn't get my hopes up. Just wait and see... Just wait and see...
Posted by Dinah on July 13, 2005, at 18:05:27
In reply to Re: I might... be getting a p-doc :-), posted by alexandra_k on July 13, 2005, at 16:45:39
It's really been a deplorable condition. They ought to step up to the plate and give you someone with experience and interest.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 13, 2005, at 19:09:05
In reply to Got my fingers crossed for you » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on July 13, 2005, at 18:05:27
>They ought to step up to the plate and give you someone with experience and interest.
Yeah. It is just that there isn't anyone :-(
I don't mind. I don't mind if they aren't keen on working with me to start with. I really don't mind that. I enjoy the process of getting to know them. But... I just don't take it very well when they get to know me a little... And based on me, based on really seeing me, they don't want to work with me. Because they see how much time / energy I need compared to their other clients. And they don't want to go there. But when they decide that after really seeing something of me... well... that is what really hurts. Even though I try really hard to not take it personally. It is that that is so very hard for me.
Posted by Dinah on July 13, 2005, at 19:25:44
In reply to Re: Got my fingers crossed for you » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on July 13, 2005, at 19:09:05
That's a pretty rotten attitude on their parts. You'd think a good clinician would enjoy a good challenge.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 13, 2005, at 19:49:12
In reply to Re: Got my fingers crossed for you » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on July 13, 2005, at 19:25:44
Mmm.
I guess it depends how overworked you are just dealing with the relatively 'easy' cases.
Its not suprising staff turnover is so high in community mental health.
And to be a little too honest I'm not at all sure that the prospect of working for community mental health would be at all appealling to clinicians with more of an interest in the harder cases. I'm not sure what is appealling about working here actually... And they move along to another job pretty quick..
I mean... Why not go with someone who is both interesting and rich??? There are a lot of f*cked up people in the world... You can probably afford to be a little picky...
Sad... But true.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 14, 2005, at 9:47:31
In reply to Re: Got my fingers crossed for you » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on July 13, 2005, at 19:49:12
Actually, I think I get why...
To take the worst cases. The people who are really out of contact with reality. Give them medication and two weeks later they are well enough for discharge.I'm not that bad to start with.
I'm not going to show such an extreme improvement - not in a couple years and even less a couple weeks.There must be a job satisfaction in that - I get that.
Not so much in working with me :-(
Posted by Tamar on July 14, 2005, at 17:00:06
In reply to Re: Got my fingers crossed for you, posted by alexandra_k on July 14, 2005, at 9:47:31
> I'm not that bad to start with.
> I'm not going to show such an extreme improvement - not in a couple years and even less a couple weeks.
>
> There must be a job satisfaction in that - I get that.
>
> Not so much in working with me :-(That just seems so wrong. They should find plenty of job satisfaction working with you. You'd think they'd jump at the chance to work with someone interesting and articulate. In fact, they should be lining up to get the opportunity to work with you!
I really hope things work out.
Tamar
Posted by Damos on July 14, 2005, at 17:32:12
In reply to Re: Got my fingers crossed for you, posted by alexandra_k on July 14, 2005, at 9:47:31
Hey Alex,
Sorry to have been such an absent friend lately. No excuses.
This is great news. What they are missing is the true joy and satisfaction of just simply knowing and getting to know you. What they don't realise is that the tiniest improvement for you would be like the moving of a mountain. They don't realise that we're like icebergs, only a tiny fraction is visible on the surface. I hope someone takes the chance to dive beneath the surface of your case file and your DX becuase they will be amazed by the depth and the beauty of what they find in the world beneath the surface. They will be enchanted, intrigued and astounded. They will see and learn and heal. So much that is wondrous awaits the one that is brave enough to take the chance.
I'm hoping so hard for you - so very hard.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.