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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by cricket on July 5, 2005, at 16:01:38
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on July 5, 2005, at 14:57:52
> Dr. lastname. He's a Phd clinical psychologist. When he calls he says "This is firstname lastname."
>
> I like the formality of calling him Dr. lastname. I guess it makes him seem more important in my mind if I call him that.Yes, I understand. And I would certainly never refer to my therapist to outsiders as firstname. He's Dr. lastname.
Posted by Shortelise on July 5, 2005, at 16:09:44
In reply to What do you call your Therapist?, posted by cricket on July 5, 2005, at 13:11:47
I call mine by his first name but didn't know what to call him until he telephoned one day and called himself by his first and last name.
I think I called him you until then.
I wish I'd talked with him about it.
SHortE
Posted by cricket on July 5, 2005, at 16:18:53
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist?, posted by Tamar on July 5, 2005, at 15:09:41
Thanks Tamar for the response. It is tricky and I think therapy is similar to teaching in that way.
It reminds me of an amusing therapy story. I came to therapy and my therapist's door was open but he was on the phone (very typical) so I sat down in the waiting room as I always do. It looked like he accidentally double booked that session because two minutes later this young woman (cell phone pressed to ear, scarf billowing out behind her in the breeze of her wake) comes right in and plops herself down on his couch. My therapist gets off the phone, brings her right back out to the waiting room where he makes her sit beside me as he apologizes to me about double booking and if I can come back in an hour, he will only charge me half price.
So the point of this story is that I think this young woman would be one of the ones who use his first name with attitude.
Anyway, Dr. T does sound formal, especially since I am only a few years younger than my therapist. And there may be some distance that I am trying to maintain by using it. And last session he was complaining that he sometimes felt like this was a Victorian marriage :) so perhaps it's time to give it up.
Posted by caraher on July 5, 2005, at 16:25:40
In reply to Hey you, posted by Dinah on July 5, 2005, at 13:43:21
Like Dinah, I'm a name-avoider. Mine is a PhD psychologist and uses "Dr. XXX" on her answering machine message, but if she leaves a message she drops the "Dr." I wrote to her recently and after much cogitation went with "Dr. XXX" in the salutation, followed by a remark joking about that choice.
Tamar, the issue of form of address in teaching can be complicated for me. Where I am now the students are very traditionalist and pretty much call ever faculty member "Dr. XXX" (less often "Professor XXX"). In two years I don't think I've ever heard a student address a faculty member by first name, and in front of students faculty tend to refer to other faculty by title and last name (though I forget and use the first name quite often!). In my own case, teaching while ABD, every time I get called "Dr." is one more reminder that I need to defend my dissertation!
What I'm accustomed to from grad school is first names. I'm starting at a new school this fall and was on campus today and met a student. I introduced myself by first and last name and I believe he "Dr."ed me back. I guess I just want them to be in their comfort zone and will conform to the de facto school standard.
Posted by Tamar on July 5, 2005, at 16:40:02
In reply to Re: Hey you, posted by caraher on July 5, 2005, at 16:25:40
> Tamar, the issue of form of address in teaching can be complicated for me. Where I am now the students are very traditionalist and pretty much call ever faculty member "Dr. XXX" (less often "Professor XXX"). In two years I don't think I've ever heard a student address a faculty member by first name, and in front of students faculty tend to refer to other faculty by title and last name (though I forget and use the first name quite often!). In my own case, teaching while ABD, every time I get called "Dr." is one more reminder that I need to defend my dissertation!
That's interesting. I often wonder if there's a male/female difference at work sometimes. I'm female and still fairly young (compared with my colleagues) and I wonder if that makes me more of a first-name kind of person. Did you mention once that you teach physics? I'd guess you don't have lots of female colleagues, so you might get 'doctored' more often.
When do you defend your dissertation?
Posted by Tamar on July 5, 2005, at 17:17:06
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist? » Tamar, posted by cricket on July 5, 2005, at 16:18:53
> It reminds me of an amusing therapy story. I came to therapy and my therapist's door was open but he was on the phone (very typical) so I sat down in the waiting room as I always do. It looked like he accidentally double booked that session because two minutes later this young woman (cell phone pressed to ear, scarf billowing out behind her in the breeze of her wake) comes right in and plops herself down on his couch. My therapist gets off the phone, brings her right back out to the waiting room where he makes her sit beside me as he apologizes to me about double booking and if I can come back in an hour, he will only charge me half price.
Ooooh, grrrr! I know she has mental health issues too, but still, grrr!
> So the point of this story is that I think this young woman would be one of the ones who use his first name with attitude.
Oh *yeah*!
By the way, I love how you described the part with the scarf billowing out behind her. I’ll be growling at her all night! Grrr!
> Anyway, Dr. T does sound formal, especially since I am only a few years younger than my therapist. And there may be some distance that I am trying to maintain by using it. And last session he was complaining that he sometimes felt like this was a Victorian marriage :) so perhaps it's time to give it up.
Wow! A Victorian marriage as in enormous emotional distance between two people who have little in common and married to please their parents? Or a Victorian marriage as in a profound but largely unspoken connection between two people who have discovered a means of finding harmony against all odds? Or something else entirely?
I think names are particularly significant for a woman in therapy with a man. Wherever there are social differences, I think it’s a good thing to challenge them. I guess that’s why it annoys me if older men talk down me, and why I find it uncomfortable when young men show too much respect for me. I think it’s particularly important in therapy to feel able to get close to the therapist. Therapy is often complicated by differences of sex, race, age, class, and orientation. Finding ways to cross those (if not other) boundaries seems important to me.
Just my two cents.
Tamar
Posted by Dinah on July 5, 2005, at 18:37:26
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist?, posted by Tamar on July 5, 2005, at 15:09:41
It's funny. I would never have dreamed of calling my professors anything but Dr. Smith. I know there might have been a few students who called them Joe. Well, no, I don't think I ever heard any call them anything but Dr. Smith and Dr. Jones.
I don't know why therapy should be different for me. Well, maybe I do. I never was all that intimate with my professors. They called me by my first name, for the most part, although a few called me Miss Doe. They were up at the front of the class. I was in one of the many chairs facing them.
But I reveal my innermost self to my therapist. It would feel weird to call him Dr. Too clinical. But I'd never not call him Dr. without his permission.
Actually, it doesn't come up, because he's only got a Masters, but that's the way I feel with my son's therapist. Who shall forever be known as "hey you".
Posted by Dinah on July 5, 2005, at 18:40:21
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist? » Tamar, posted by Dinah on July 5, 2005, at 18:37:26
Come to think of it, I also call my bosses Mr. Smith and Mr. Jones, although they've asked me numerous times to call them Joe or Bob.
I just can't bring myself to call them anything else since I knew them since childhood.
And also come to think of it, my father was a bit disconcerted that I called him "Daddy" at work. But I could never remember to call him "Mr. Doe".
No wonder I never call anyone by name. :(
Posted by Tamar on July 5, 2005, at 18:51:47
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist? » Tamar, posted by Dinah on July 5, 2005, at 18:37:26
> It's funny. I would never have dreamed of calling my professors anything but Dr. Smith. I know there might have been a few students who called them Joe. Well, no, I don't think I ever heard any call them anything but Dr. Smith and Dr. Jones.
It was the same for me when I was a student. But in a few short years (while I was writing my dissertation) it seems things changed...
> I don't know why therapy should be different for me. Well, maybe I do. I never was all that intimate with my professors. They called me by my first name, for the most part, although a few called me Miss Doe. They were up at the front of the class. I was in one of the many chairs facing them.
Even though students all sit in the chairs, the teachers know who you are! It's like a panopticon. It's easy for the students to feel anonymous among other students, but the teachers can see everything! We know who's asleep, who's doing homework for another class, who's falling in love (OK, I made up that last part)...
> But I reveal my innermost self to my therapist. It would feel weird to call him Dr. Too clinical. But I'd never not call him Dr. without his permission.
>
> Actually, it doesn't come up, because he's only got a Masters, but that's the way I feel with my son's therapist. Who shall forever be known as "hey you".I think 'hey you' is a great name for a therapist. If I ever see mine again, I'll call out "Hey, you!" I bet he'll look round!
Posted by Dinah on July 5, 2005, at 19:13:11
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist? » Dinah, posted by Tamar on July 5, 2005, at 18:51:47
Chuckle. I don't know. Our high school teachers were very much involved in the romance between my husband and I and the younger woman and my husband. :D
And the professor in some deadly dull economics class, who read straight from the book, who spent the first part of the semester at my side rapping on my desk as he lectured. He told me a couple of years later that he thought I wasn't paying attention until the first exam, and then he realized it just *looked* like I wasn't paying attention. rofl. I never disillusioned him.
So yeah, I know we weren't really anonymous. Not to most of them anyway. One or two of the auditorium classes maybe.
Posted by happyflower on July 5, 2005, at 19:15:52
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist? » Dinah, posted by Tamar on July 5, 2005, at 18:51:47
Posted by cricket2 on July 5, 2005, at 19:36:05
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist? » cricket, posted by Tamar on July 5, 2005, at 17:17:06
> Wow! A Victorian marriage as in enormous emotional distance between two people who have little in common and married to please their parents? Or a Victorian marriage as in a profound but largely unspoken connection between two people who have discovered a means of finding harmony against all odds? Or something else entirely?
>
No, more because I am completely passive in therapy. I never ask for anything. I wait quietly in the waiting room until he comes and gets me and have never complain even if he is 15 or 20 minutes late. I made one 3 minute phone call in 3 years of therapy. I never have any topic that I want to discuss and am perfectly content if he rambles on the whole 50 minutes. In fact those are my favorite sessions - no kidding. Despite repeated offers, I never eat or drink anything in his presence while he sort of slurps and crunches away. I never ask questions, always say the room temperature is fine (not sure why he keeps asking).So he says that he wants me to learn how to take the lead sometimes. I have no idea how to do that, not in there, not with him.
> I think names are particularly significant for a woman in therapy with a man. Wherever there are social differences, I think it’s a good thing to challenge them. I guess that’s why it annoys me if older men talk down me, and why I find it uncomfortable when young men show too much respect for me. I think it’s particularly important in therapy to feel able to get close to the therapist. Therapy is often complicated by differences of sex, race, age, class, and orientation. Finding ways to cross those (if not other) boundaries seems important to me.
>
>
You are so right. I mean we have the innate power imbalance of therapist vs. patient and then we have the fact that he is rich, white and male and I am none of those things. So sometimes I feel like I have centuries of cultural conditioning that I am up against (not to say anything about a horrendous childhood) in trying to cross all these boundaries and make a connection. Sometimes I don't think he appreciates the difficulty of that. I mean I know how to passively resist - always arrive late, a polite shrug serves many purposes, bolt off the couch when he gives the nod that I can go - but all those tactics do more harm than good.Anyway, on his part, I think he is trying his best. He probably reveals far more about himself than most therapists. I think primarily to try and find common ground with me. I get everything from "Oh I was an angry adolescent too" to "I like peanut butter sandwiches too."
So it seems that what I call my therapist is just the tip of a very large and complicated iceberg.
PS - Thanks for the grrrr. I needed that.
Posted by annierose on July 5, 2005, at 20:02:45
In reply to What do you call your Therapist?, posted by cricket on July 5, 2005, at 13:11:47
Interesting thread. Something I ponder too. When I first saw my T 20 years ago, she wasn't a Dr., and I just called her by her first name. Although, I didn't have reason to address her much at all. And she would call me by my first name too.
Now, years later, seeing her again, she is a PhD and refers to herself as Dr. lastname. But I never call her that. When she calls me, she'll ask for "Mrs. lastname" which cracks me up. I'll reply, "This is Annie." Stop the formality.
So, I call her nothing. Refer to her as "you" most often. Maybe this could be a conversation in therapy one day.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on July 5, 2005, at 21:22:44
In reply to What do you call your Therapist?, posted by cricket on July 5, 2005, at 13:11:47
I work at a University and always refer to Deans, faculty members as "Dr. X" I do so until I am told otherwise by that particular person. In my mind, if one has a PhD, one has worked really hard for it. And I think they deserve to be called "Dr." as sort of a badge of honor.
I don't know though, I feel I may be the only person left on earth who really enjoys formality. Can't you tell by my name????!!! There's something really nice in calling someone Mr. or Ms. when you don't know them. That's why I love all those 18th and 19th century stories where people call eachother mostly by the formal. I lament the lack of manners these days, so perhaps I try to overcompensate.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 5, 2005, at 22:18:00
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist? » Tamar, posted by cricket2 on July 5, 2005, at 19:36:05
> So it seems that what I call my therapist is just the tip of a very large and complicated iceberg.
As far as what you call yourself :-) I see "cricket" by itself works again. If "cricket2" comes up automatically, could you just change it back? Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on July 5, 2005, at 23:20:29
In reply to What do you call your Therapist?, posted by cricket on July 5, 2005, at 13:11:47
Good question! I lamented about this one quite a bit. For the first year (or 2?) I didn't call her anything. Then I needed to call her at home and I freaked out a bit and then just called her by her 1st name. That seems like it has finally become comfortable after 4 yrs of therapy!
As for my pdoc, I call her Dr. X. My therapist also refers to her as Dr. X. Although when my pdoc leaves a message for me or calls me, she always she it is "Mary X" calling instead of "Dr. X." I like that. It feels like she doesn't think that she is all above me b/c she is the pdoc and I am the patient.
It seems like such a simple thing, but it is so complex!
EE
Posted by Jazzed on July 5, 2005, at 23:35:01
In reply to What do you call your Therapist?, posted by cricket on July 5, 2005, at 13:11:47
Hi Cricket,
I asked mine what he wanted me to call him. He said I could call him by either Dr. ... or by his first name, whatever I was comfortable with. I think, other than voice mails, it's not likely I'll call him much of anything. I'm like Dinah, don't use names all that much.
Jazzy
Posted by Jen Star on July 6, 2005, at 0:49:43
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist?, posted by Tamar on July 5, 2005, at 15:09:41
Tamar, this is a really interesting thread and I found your post very insightful! I know I'm one of the people who like to use first names partially b/c I want to seem on equal footing, but I don't ever try to do it with an attitude. I always try to be respectful of people's degrees and knowledge. And if someone prefers to be called "Dr. X" or "Prof. X" then I always use what they prefer, out of respect too.
I know what you mean about some people trying to put you in your place. I don't have a phd, but I used to work as a rather high-level engineering manager. Some of the male technicians in the corp. -- esp. the older ones (I mean in their upper 40s and beyond) liked to call me "cutesy" names, like "Dear", "Honey" or "Jennie Starrie" or such. One guy I think only did it b/c he was so used to "girls" being "girly". But one guy for SURE was trying to make me smaller. He would call me "Dear" in meetings and try to touch my arm all the time, and would act condescending. I finally had to take him aside and tell him to call me "JenStar" instead of "Dear." He deserved an Oscar for his hurt and misunderstood act after that! But he did start treating me with more respect. It's a strange thing...
JenStar
Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2005, at 10:50:05
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist? » Tamar, posted by Jen Star on July 6, 2005, at 0:49:43
I call mine Dr. last name. I can't imagine calling him by either of his first names (he has a first and middle name, but for whatever reason, he goes by something completely different.) It gets to be a mouthful at times. I always tend to shorten multi-syllabic words and names if possible. But I don't with him--probably my way to try to keep some distance to protect myself from hurt. (shrugs)
On the other hand, I almost always say in the first session, "Please feel free to call me by my first name." I don't have my doctorate yet, and Mrs. X sounds so weird in a therapy environment. In any environment, actually...even after 10 years of marriage!
When my hubby and I were dating, I called his parents Mr. and Mrs. Hubby for five years. I don't recall them ever saying it was okay to call them by their first names. I think they assumed I would, but I was brought up never to unless told it was okay. Even when an adult neighbor said, "please call me Barbara" when we first moved to the neighborhood, my mom nixed that idea. So finally, my husband must have said something to his parents, because 2 months before the wedding, his mother FINALLY said to call them by their first names.
I hate that dilemma.
Oh, and at school it depends on the professor what we call them. Some I wouldn't dream of calling by their first name even if I think of them that way. Others insist on it.
sigh...avoiding is good.
gg
Posted by GreySkyEyes on July 6, 2005, at 12:07:46
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist?, posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2005, at 10:50:05
This is an interesting thread!
I've always called my T by her first name. She doesn't have a PhD so no "Dr" anyways. At first she left a few messages as "firstname lastname" but now she just says "firstname". Same with my husband's (former) T. He was always "firstname", and he has a PsyD.
P-docs are always "Dr. lastname". Although my current one leaves his messages as "firstname lastname". The p-doc relationship is formal for me and I'd feel weird otherwise. But then I've been through 4 p-docs in 12 months so what would I know? :P
Posted by caraher on July 7, 2005, at 11:52:22
In reply to Re: Hey you » caraher, posted by Tamar on July 5, 2005, at 16:40:02
> That's interesting. I often wonder if there's a male/female difference at work sometimes. I'm female and still fairly young (compared with my colleagues) and I wonder if that makes me more of a first-name kind of person. Did you mention once that you teach physics? I'd guess you don't have lots of female colleagues, so you might get 'doctored' more often.
Yes, I'm in physics, but in this case I think it's more the institutional culture than the field. Students refer to the female faculty as "Dr. X" as well (and I did have a female colleague this past year and will again at my next school).
> When do you defend your dissertation?
Looks like July 26 will be the day. I'll be glad to have this thing out of the way!
Posted by Jazzed on July 7, 2005, at 11:59:01
In reply to Re: Hey you, posted by caraher on July 7, 2005, at 11:52:22
>
> > When do you defend your dissertation?
>
> Looks like July 26 will be the day. I'll be glad to have this thing out of the way!
Good luck with that!Jazzy
Posted by Tamar on July 7, 2005, at 15:06:01
In reply to Re: Hey you, posted by caraher on July 7, 2005, at 11:52:22
> Yes, I'm in physics, but in this case I think it's more the institutional culture than the field. Students refer to the female faculty as "Dr. X" as well (and I did have a female colleague this past year and will again at my next school).
Yes, I suppose the institutional culture is part of it. Although I'm a bit surprised that my own institution has become so informal because it's a pretty traditional place. It may depend on the field to some extent as well.
> > When do you defend your dissertation?
>
> Looks like July 26 will be the day. I'll be glad to have this thing out of the way!I hope it goes well. Let us know all about it!
Tamar
Posted by Blossom on July 7, 2005, at 21:05:22
In reply to Re: What do you call your Therapist?, posted by GreySkyEyes on July 6, 2005, at 12:07:46
I like this thread too. I used to always call my T as Dr.(lastname). Then one day, I overheard one of his colleagues call him by an informal nickname, and the next time I saw him, it just sort of slipped out. I called him by that same nickname. Later, I saw him walking to a cafe for lunch, and since I was going to the same cafe, I came up behind him and called him by this nickname. He turned around, and I said, "I bet not too many people call you that." He replied, "No. Besides you, just a couple of the graduate interns and some people that have known me for a long time." Still, he never corrected me, and, I think, was inwardly pleased because it demonstrated my affection for him.
After I terminated with him, I made a call and left a message for my P-doc who works in the same office with my ex-T . My T returned the call and said, "Hi, Blossom, this is Dr. XXX." We chatted for a few minutes, and later in the day, I sent him an email related to our conversation (in which I addressed him as "Dr.(nickname)"). He replied, signing it with his first name.
I'm so bad, aren't I???
Blossom
Posted by kerria on July 7, 2005, at 22:00:45
In reply to What do you call your Therapist?, posted by cricket on July 5, 2005, at 13:11:47
Hi- names are so hard to get right, i didn't feel comfortable calling my T any name until he sent an email and wrote his name as initials. From then on i call him by his initials.
It feels right to me but i'm the only one that calls him that.
Take care,
kerria
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