Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 506634

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I like that one, too » daisym

Posted by Racer on June 2, 2005, at 12:28:48

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise, posted by daisym on June 2, 2005, at 2:00:24

It's called The Twelve Dancing Princesses.

I can't remember which colored fairy book it was in, though...

 

Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise

Posted by annierose on June 2, 2005, at 14:26:27

In reply to Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise, posted by gardenergirl on June 1, 2005, at 22:38:25

My favorite fairy tale as a child was "Emperor who wore no clothes". I think the emperor symbolizes my family ... acting crazy but pretending as if nobody will notice how weird they really are.

 

Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise

Posted by Emily Elizabeth on June 2, 2005, at 14:50:51

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise, posted by Tamar on June 2, 2005, at 12:00:10

I can't think of a fav either..I always loved books, but so many fairy tales are so upsetting with wicked witches and stuff. I remember a little red riding hood doll that I had when I was little where it would turn into her grandma and a wolf. I always freaked me out. Hmmm...guess I had an anxiety disorder then too! ;)

Can anyone think of a totally happy fairy tale??

EE

 

Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » gardenergirl

Posted by rainbowbrite on June 2, 2005, at 15:58:42

In reply to Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise, posted by gardenergirl on June 1, 2005, at 22:38:25

Very interesting, I had/have a few favorites...but one that probably tops the list is Rapunzal. when I was a kid I used to play the part of her LOL I liked the hair part (let down your hair hehe)
then I would say Cinderella, and snow white Oh and I loved Hansel and Gretal ( I used to drop bread crumbs for fun too).

Does this make me confused I wonder lol.


 

Re: Jung and fairy tales...oooh fun topic

Posted by sleepygirl on June 2, 2005, at 19:50:13

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » gardenergirl, posted by rainbowbrite on June 2, 2005, at 15:58:42

I love fairy tales. I used to read them a lot when I was a kid, all the details didn't stick, but I think they're great. Hans Christian Andersen is the man for me. I like 'Thumbelina'
It's about a little girl so small she lives in a flower. She finds herself living with a mouse, and while there finds a swallow she thinks is dead, but she nurses it back to health. Then she's almost forced to marry a mole, and she doesn't want to. So the swallow takes her away from the bad situation. Thumbelina finds a nice place to live with other tiny people, and they give her some wings for herself. So the bird leaves her even though he doesn't want to, and sings the story of Thumbelina.

 

Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » Gabbi-x-2

Posted by sleepygirl on June 2, 2005, at 19:53:41

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » gardenergirl, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 1, 2005, at 23:20:41

I remember the little match girl vaguely. Can you tell me who wrote it or what it was about generally? I think I liked that one.

 

Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » Emily Elizabeth

Posted by sleepygirl on June 2, 2005, at 19:55:46

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise, posted by Emily Elizabeth on June 2, 2005, at 14:50:51

No, I don't think I can remember a totally happy one fairy tale. I'll try to find one.

 

Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise

Posted by daisym on June 2, 2005, at 21:02:35

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise, posted by Emily Elizabeth on June 2, 2005, at 14:50:51

Fairy tales aren't supposed to be happy. They were a way that parents and clans communicated warnings and social rules to children. They were supposed to clearly show good and evil.

The problem now a days is that we read confusing stories to little kids. That is what I meant by Peter Rabbit got ruined for me. In the story, PETER breaks into Mr. McGregor's garden and STEALS food. But we are led to feel sorry for Peter and hate Mr. McGregor. So the message is confusing.

On the bright side, most Fairy Tales have a good ending.

 

Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » rainbowbrite

Posted by daisym on June 2, 2005, at 21:04:02

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » gardenergirl, posted by rainbowbrite on June 2, 2005, at 15:58:42

It strikes me that these are all rescue tales. Were you always wishing someone would come and save you, transform you into a princess?

 

Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » daisym

Posted by rainbowbrite on June 2, 2005, at 22:53:47

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » rainbowbrite, posted by daisym on June 2, 2005, at 21:04:02

I did actually always wish to be rescued or taken away as a kid.
And I just always always loved to dress up like a princess. But I hadnt thought about the rescue theme...hmm I dont like that. Oh well, I rescued myself anyway so Im not waiting for anyone now....ok ok yes I am Im waiting for prince charming! I really am. And then that would be a very happy ending to my fairytale ;-)

 

Me and Cinderella--isn't that part of a song? » rainbowbrite

Posted by gardenergirl on June 3, 2005, at 0:02:52

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » daisym, posted by rainbowbrite on June 2, 2005, at 22:53:47

I think that rescue is part of it. What I think resonates with me in Cinderella is the concept of real self versus an ideal self. The prince falls in love with the ideal self, or Cinderella in all her magical finery, but loses this fantasy woman. When he feels this loss, he goes in search of it, and finds Cinderella as her true self. And he loves her anyway.

Jung believed that all aspects of the fairy tale (or of dreams for that matter) represent parts of our psyche.

I was thinking about this and Cinderella, and I think you could look at the step mother and the fairy god mother as opposing mother archetypes. Neither is very satisfying, because the step mother is evil and abuses Cinderella, and the fairy god mother transforms her into this fantasy woman, but it doesn't last. I think that idea resonates with me as well, because I often feel like people are going to find out I'm really just a pumpkin.

You know, when I got married, I didn't realize it at the time, but my dress had elements in it that looked like Cinderella's dress. And I had my hair in a similar style, AND my veil was attached to a headband. When I took the veil off and just wore the headband, it was a bit startling to me how much I seemed to be trying to look like a princess.

And of course my father always called me "princess" when I was a girl. Funny, it stopped when I hit puberty. Guess that was the midnight bell for me as far as he was concerned.

I think I will bring this up tomorrow in my session.

Thanks everyone for all your posts. I can't respond much now, as I have to get a good night's sleep before I hit the road tomorrow. But more later.

gg

 

Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » sleepygirl

Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 3, 2005, at 0:44:09

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » Gabbi-x-2, posted by sleepygirl on June 2, 2005, at 19:53:41

Sure! It was, I think by Hans Christian Anderson
And it was about a very poor girl who was sent out into the cold to sell matches. No one would by them, and as she began to freeze she decided to light them to keep warm. With each one she lit she had a beautiful vision, and she would try so hard to keep it, but then the match would burn out. With the very last match, she saw her dead grandmother, who she loved very much, her grandmother took her into her arms, and this time the match didn't go out, because the little girl had died.

 

Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » Gabbi-x-2

Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 3, 2005, at 2:24:57

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » sleepygirl, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 3, 2005, at 0:44:09

Though I guess that's not really a fairy tale, it's too modern I think, it's a children's story. I didn't like any others. I just liked Russian Wonder Tales, with the Baba Yaga.. and all the boys had the same name. Ivan. Those were great examples of the universal archetypes though.

 

Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » daisym

Posted by Tamar on June 3, 2005, at 3:56:18

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise, posted by daisym on June 2, 2005, at 21:02:35

> Fairy tales aren't supposed to be happy. They were a way that parents and clans communicated warnings and social rules to children. They were supposed to clearly show good and evil.

I think you’re right, and I think they were probably intended for adults too. I suppose urban legends probably fulfil a similar function today.

> The problem now a days is that we read confusing stories to little kids. That is what I meant by Peter Rabbit got ruined for me. In the story, PETER breaks into Mr. McGregor's garden and STEALS food. But we are led to feel sorry for Peter and hate Mr. McGregor. So the message is confusing.

Or possibly the message is that there are lots of grey areas? That good and evil are contingent? For example, Peter is a RABBIT. Can't we feel some compassion for a rabbit who takes a carrot? (I can't quite remember - is it a carrot?) Can Mr McGregor really claim to own the carrots? Is it OK for humans to work ecosystems to their own advantage (e.g. by farming vegetables) if it disrupts the local food chain (e.g. by denying young rabbits a source of sustenance)?

Of course these questions are a little bit silly, but on the other hand, I think there's plenty of precedent. Most story traditions have trickster characters, and their activities are presented in such a way that the audience delights in their naughtiness at the expense of the great and the good.

> On the bright side, most Fairy Tales have a good ending.

Yes! Whatever happens, things usually turn out OK in the end (at least, for the good guys who haven’t compromised their integrity too much). I think it’s supposed to reassure us that there’s a natural justice in the world.

I wonder what it means if my favourite story is about one of these tricksters...?

 

Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » Shortelise

Posted by alexandra_k on June 3, 2005, at 5:17:51

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » alexandra_k, posted by Shortelise on June 2, 2005, at 12:26:52

> Sorry Alexandra. That was abrupt of me. Glad you could take it. :-)

Thats ok. Don't worry - I meant it in a jokey way, I didn't feel upset or indignant at all.

> I've read several people here feeling horrible about this.

Yeah.
I know that some theorists talk about 'universal themes'. I guess they would apply in a culture where something is culturally accepted as a symbol for something else. Maybe there are universals... But maybe you have to study classics or something to learn about such stuff. The average person doesn't know what is supposed to symbolise what...

I think it is more important to ask what something means for the person in particular.

Whether you are analysing the significance of dreams or the significance of fairy tales.
'What does it mean to you' is more appropriate than 'what does it universally mean'.

I think ... even Freud recognised this. Dream analysis wasn't supposed to be done outside the context of the particular person. What he already knew about the person and such was supposed to come into play...


> I always value what you write here.

And I value you too :-)
>
> ShortE who has a migraine


I hope you feel better soon.
I have never had a migraine, but I've heard that they are horrible indeed.
:-(

 

Thumbelina!

Posted by Shortelise on June 3, 2005, at 12:13:42

In reply to Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise, posted by gardenergirl on June 1, 2005, at 22:38:25

Yes! I loved that when I was little. I loved all the stories about tiny people who made their tiny ways and did their tiny things, all in a world almost unknown to the big people.

I used to make a tiny land around the roots of a tree. There were mossy terraces, ledges for houses, how I loved that small world.

ShortE

 

where the wild things are! (nm) » gardenergirl

Posted by B2chica on June 3, 2005, at 12:16:58

In reply to Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise, posted by gardenergirl on June 1, 2005, at 22:38:25

 

symbols » alexandra_k

Posted by Shortelise on June 3, 2005, at 12:33:17

In reply to Re: Jung and fairy tales...interesting exercise » Shortelise, posted by alexandra_k on June 3, 2005, at 5:17:51

I found what you wrote so interesting that I started another thread "dream symbols".

ShortE

 

Re: Thumbelina! » Shortelise

Posted by TamaraJ on June 3, 2005, at 15:27:44

In reply to Thumbelina!, posted by Shortelise on June 3, 2005, at 12:13:42

I, too, loved Thumbelina as a child. I think there was a song about Thumbelina that I used to sing over and over. And, the Little Match Girl was another favorite, although it was very sad. Wasn't there another story about red shoes or red slippers that was sad? Maybe I am thinking of something else.

Tamara

> Yes! I loved that when I was little. I loved all the stories about tiny people who made their tiny ways and did their tiny things, all in a world almost unknown to the big people.
>
> I used to make a tiny land around the roots of a tree. There were mossy terraces, ledges for houses, how I loved that small world.
>
> ShortE

 

Re: Thumbelina! I remember part of the song

Posted by TamaraJ on June 3, 2005, at 15:44:36

In reply to Re: Thumbelina! » Shortelise, posted by TamaraJ on June 3, 2005, at 15:27:44

Or at least I think I do. Maybe someone else remembers more of it.

"Thumbelina, Thumbelina, tiny little thing. Thumbelina dance, Thumbelina, sing. . .

There is something in the song, I am sure, about being 10 feet tall.

Yes, I loved that story!

 

Re: Thumbelina! I remember part of the song » TamaraJ

Posted by 10derHeart on June 3, 2005, at 17:10:00

In reply to Re: Thumbelina! I remember part of the song, posted by TamaraJ on June 3, 2005, at 15:44:36

Here are the words...

I love it, too.

Couldn't remember any more that you.

Thanks goodness for search engines....;-)

---------------------------------------
Thumbalina, Thumbalina tiny little thing
Thumbalina dance, Thumbalina sing
Thumbalina what’s the difference if you’re very small?
When your heart is full of love you’re nine feet tall

Though you’re no bigger than my thumb
Than my thumb, than my thumb
Sweet Thumbalina don’t be glum
Now now now, ah ah ah, come come come

Thumbalina, Thumbalina tiny little thing
Thumbalina dance, Thumbalina sing
Thumbalina what’s the difference if you’re very small?
When your heart is full of love you’re nine feet tall

Though you’re no bigger than my toe
Than my toe, than my toe
Sweet Thumbalina keep that glow
And you’ll grow and you’ll grow and you’ll grow

Thumbalina, Thumbalina tiny little thing
Thumbalina dance, Thumbalina sing
Thumbalina what’s the difference if you’re very small?
When your heart is full of love you’re nine feet tall

It came from:
http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/radio/lyrics1.htm

These are bringing back pretty nice memories....

 

Re: Thumbelina! I remember part of the song » 10derHeart

Posted by TamaraJ on June 3, 2005, at 17:22:33

In reply to Re: Thumbelina! I remember part of the song » TamaraJ, posted by 10derHeart on June 3, 2005, at 17:10:00

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I used to sing that song all the time when I was a little kid. It does bring back memories for sure. My mom told me some time ago that when I was little, I used to get up really early in the morning and would sit in the living room singing all my little songs to amuse myself until others got up. My mom was not, and still is not, a morning person. She told me she felt so bad because she would come down stairs all grumpy and tell me to PLEASE STOP SINGING!!! LOL, I was a pain I guess :-)

 

Re: Thumbelina! (nm)

Posted by happyflower on June 4, 2005, at 9:49:58

In reply to Thumbelina!, posted by Shortelise on June 3, 2005, at 12:13:42

 

wicked stepmothers!

Posted by happyflower on June 4, 2005, at 9:53:35

In reply to Re: Thumbelina! I remember part of the song » 10derHeart, posted by TamaraJ on June 3, 2005, at 17:22:33

Yes, I am a stepmom, but I am not wicked! lol I told my T that "not all stepmothers are evil" because I was the only one who remembered my stepdaughters first wedding anniversary and sent her a card. Well my T said normally it isn't the stepmom that do the abuse, it is the stepfathers. He also told me back in those days when there was a divorce kids went to live with the fathers since they were the bread winners. So that why you see so much stepmother stories.

 

Re: Thumbelina!

Posted by happyflower on June 4, 2005, at 9:59:24

In reply to Re: Thumbelina! (nm), posted by happyflower on June 4, 2005, at 9:49:58

I also had miniture worlds around the roots of trees when I was a child. Even now, as an adult, I want to make a miniture fairy garden! I guess I will never grow up! lol


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