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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 18:45:55
In reply to Re: Pinkeye? (very long) » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 18:18:30
Pinkeye, that sounds awful. I'm so sorry you had to grow up that way. And I'm so glad you're starting to see the connections now so that your kids will benefit.
I think our positions are a lot different with our mothers. I think a lot of people would objectively say that your father had problems. They would objectively say that my father had problems. There's no way to avoid the fact that he was an alchoholic, even if he didn't get drunk. There's no way to avoid the fact that he said the most horrible things to my brother that I was always grateful that my brother was as nice as he was or there could have been something very ugly happening, and I'm not sure I would have blamed my brother. And he said things like that to my mother as well. That she was worthless, that he hated her so much he wished he could kill her.
He tried to leave her once. But leaving her would have meant leaving us with her alone. And I begged and pleaded and he decided to stay because of that. Because he loved me, and because he didn't think my mother should be our single parent. They'd have probably broken up when I was a baby if it weren't for me. They separated for a year, and even my mother admits they got back together because they both loved me. Daddy had to live with my mother for close to fifty years because he loved me.
The difference is that most people who meet my mother would objectively describe her in horrible terms. One friend, after spending a night at my house that by my standards was a perfectly ok night, whispered to me "Your mother is really awful. I'm so sorry." My husband liked my father ok, not really well, but ok. But he avoids my mother as much as he can and makes no pretense of liking her - even to her face. I spent a lifetime watching people edge away from her as she intruded into their personal space. I had people her age - her peers - ask me to do something about her because she was annoying them and they couldn't get her to stop. When she had that red faced screaming fit about not having the hospital bed that my father needed in HER house in front of the social worker, the social worker worked overtime to get Daddy into the hospice and away from her. When my therapist heard what happened, he totally turned against her, and now seems to think all Daddy's problems were a result of living with her. Which I think was a bit extreme. Daddy was a difficult person too.
I can't tell you the number of times her gossiping, her poor grasp of reality if it didn't tally with her idea of what it should be, and her temper resulted in some unpleasant social situations for me. She pretty much drove me out of the hobby I engaged in for many years by getting politically involved in factions when she also got involved in the hobby.
So objective people would think your mother was a nice person, right? But I've spent a lifetime of hearing that my mother was horrible from nearly every objective person she comes in contact with.
That being said, she does have her finer points. She taught me everything I know about being a good person who cares for others. And she really does put herself out for people that other people ignore or belittle, like elderly relatives or kids with problems. She loves really little kids and is great with them.
And sometime she'll say something really vulnerable that reawakens some long killed positive feelings towards her. Like once she said wistfully that people didn't like her, and she knew it. I think we were talking about looks at the time...
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 19:02:17
In reply to Re: Pinkeye? (very long) » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 18:45:55
Oh I see. So maybe your mother had real problems too. Maybe then in your case it was more of an equal problem between both your parents. That must have been hard to digest..
I feel sorry for you.. I know your dad has passed away, and I wish he was alive now so you can try to get some apology from him. Maybe you should try to get it from your mom.
I have gotten apology from my dad about lot of stuff 2 - 3 years back. That has helped me immensely in forgiving him. I haven't talked to him about making me like a surrogate wife (a term my new T came up with - I don't like it one bit). I haven't talked to him about being excessively physically close to me and emotionally making me like his companion. But the rest of the stuff, I have gotten apology from my dad. So that makes it so much easier to forgive and heal. I wish you had gotten that from your dad.
Anyway, all said and done, I really don't have any bitterness towards my parents. Not even a little bit. Even all this venting out, I am doing it because my new T wants me to do it. Otherwise, I wouldn't even be doing it. I realize that both of them - given whatever mistakes they did, at the end of the day had been very good persons at heart. They both meant well, and love me and cherish me. And they mean the world to me, really. I don't have anyone else after them.. no brothers, sisters. I am close to couple of my cousins, and I have my husband, but nobody to claim fully mine beyond them. And I really don't have any anger.. maybe I have bottled it up inside me, but I feel that is ok. It can stay inside me, and hurt me, but I am not going to take it out on my father. I don't have anyone else.
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 19:16:56
In reply to Re: Pinkeye? (very long) » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 19:02:17
Besides, I think I took a lot of stuff more personally than I had to - because I was an only kid. If I had a sibling, I would have been able to be just fine. I would have learnt much early on, that it was not my mistake that my parents didn't get along, that it was not my mistake that my father came to rely upon me. And I would have had someone else to cry with - instead of having to do it all alone inside the bathrooms :-).
But anyway, understanding all these things with my logical mind is far from being able to be emotionally healed. I wonder when I will be able to be emotionally healed. But atleast this is first step.
Logical wisdom and strength doesn't seem to be enough at all.. even logical insights about emotions is only half way. Real emotional healing is what makes people really happy. I wonder if there is a shortcut to direct emotional healing.. instead of going through this ciruitous route of reading -> information -> processing -> knowledge -> putting it all together -> logical wisdom -> understand it is not enough -> reading about emotions -> getting emotional insights -> gathering emotional wisdom -> emotional healing and happiness. There must be a way to short circuit it.. maybe movies are the way or hypnosis. (I think I am getting too much into my computer science logic. :-))
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 19:24:55
In reply to Re: Pinkeye? (very long) Dinah » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 19:16:56
There I think.. I just got the answer. Movies - and perhaps songs.. I think they are a wonderful wonderful tool for direct emotional healing. I think our emotions are based on pictures.. not words.
I am going to see lot of movies - good family movies. lot of positive family stuff like "Sound of music".. Good thing about Indian movies is there are lot of family themes instead of this usually non family oriented western movies. Anybody has seen indian movies? I think they are a wonderful cure for emotional trauma - especially related to family problems. Any body agrees?
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 19:32:38
In reply to Re: Pinkeye? (very long) Dinah » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 19:16:56
That's a wonderful realization to make, Pinkeye. That you weren't to blame. And of course, you really weren't.
My therapist is always telling me I just didn't have as much power as I thought I did. That a child just doesn't have that much power over what a parent does. But while I personally might not have forced them to stay together (at least not the time I was an infant), my existance almost certainly did.
I never needed an apology from my father for my life in general. Towards the end of his life when he got angry and said hurtful things to me, he apologized at the time. But for my life in general? No, absolutely not. I'm just glad I got a chance to thank him for all he did for me, and to tell him how much I loved him, and that he not only heard but reflected back to me that he did in fact know how much I loved him and how grateful I was to him.
I'm not saying living with him was easy, because it wasn't. But he didn't need to apologize to me. I had forgiven and understood long since.
I'm relatively certain that an apology from my mother would mean nothing to me, unless accompanied by a change in her actions.
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 19:35:02
In reply to Re: Pinkeye? (very long) Dinah » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 19:24:55
And one day, perhaps, we all can take a good movie about a therapy relationship. How the patient heals, and understands and copes up with transference, and most especially, terminates well. And both the patient and the T lives happily ever after.
This board and the movie will become a mandatory training for all therapists. Otherwise, they will fail their finals and never become therapists :-)
Oh.. please ignore me. I am just self talking.. Is Dr. Bob going to block me? I haven't done even a little bit of work today - and they will fire me if I proceed in this way. Pinkeye - shut up and get back to work. I am actually in a good mood.
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 19:38:55
In reply to Re: Pinkeye? (very long) Dinah » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 19:35:02
Ok, as long as there is one character who continues therapy until she is lucky enough to predecease her therapist and husband.
Termination may teach some important lessons.
But not everyone needs to learn all lessons.
Now back to work with ye.
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 19:48:07
In reply to Re: Pinkeye? (very long) Dinah » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 19:38:55
Skip the last part of the movie :-).. I think you cannot even bear to watch it.
Posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 20:54:55
In reply to Re: Pinkeye? (very long) Dinah » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 19:24:55
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 20:59:31
In reply to Love Sound of Music! (nm), posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 20:54:55
Want to be like her. I don't actually care about anything else.. And I have never seen a movie where there is so much of joy in a person and where it had been portrayed so well.
Posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:00:21
In reply to Pinkeye?, posted by Dinah on May 5, 2005, at 19:04:02
Isn't there a new movie out about therapy? I thought I heard about something, but maybe I was daydreaming. ( at least it wasn't about t) lol
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 21:03:12
In reply to new therapy movie?, posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:00:21
No need for therapy when you can watch such movies.
Posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:09:58
In reply to Forget about therapy movie. Sound of music will do » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 21:03:12
These are my a few of my favorite things! lol
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 21:15:02
In reply to Raindrops on roses and whiskers on T's,, posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:09:58
Why pollute such a happy movie with a T in it? In worlds like the world of Sound of Music, there should be no need for Ts.. Everyone will be happy and who will have time for a T?
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 21:17:51
In reply to Oh No.. How about no Ts for a change? » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 21:15:02
Posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:19:57
In reply to Oh No.. How about no Ts for a change? » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 21:15:02
Sorry I am in a nutty kind of mood tonight, sorry to ruin your non t movie. I am crazy tonight. :)
Posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:21:59
In reply to Re: Oh No.. How about no Ts for a change?, posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:19:57
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 21:25:16
In reply to What's a T hat? (nm) » happyflower, posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:21:59
I know you like your T, so feel free to bring him in. But no T ing business. He can come and enjoy simply. :-)
Posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:57:09
In reply to Ts not acting as Ts. But simply human - like us. » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 21:25:16
So if he isn't wearing his T hat, and he is watching a movie with me, then he isn't my T, right? So we can make out, then? lol
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 22:08:06
In reply to Re: Ts not acting as Ts. But simply human - like us., posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:57:09
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 22:20:54
In reply to As you wish :-) But Not For Me. Got over it :-) (nm) » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 22:08:06
I think, that just maybe, I am over my excessive liking towards my T.. Just maybe.. Isn't that great? Just struck me.. right now. I don't feel all that excessive need.. Suddenly dawned on me.
I think I have been foolishly hurting myself too much..I think I like him as a person a lot.. but suddenly has dawned on me that he is not my dad - he never was, and he is not my husband. And I am happy.
What just happened?
Posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 22:25:28
In reply to Hmm.. What just happened? » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 22:20:54
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 22:34:30
In reply to Must of been the music! lol (nm), posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 22:25:28
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 23:16:55
In reply to Better be for good :-) It is about time :-) LOL (nm) » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 22:34:30
I just so enjoy your spontaneous comments :-) You deserve your name.
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 23:19:39
In reply to Re: Ts not acting as Ts. But simply human - like us., posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:57:09
Well wait, what about the ethics committe? :-))To hell with them? :-)
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