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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JenStar on April 29, 2005, at 13:51:22
hi all,
I'm considering going into therapy for my anxiety issues. I was seeing a therapist briefly a year ago, but we just didn't click and I didn't feel I was getting any help from her.I think part of the problem is that I didn't respect her intellectually. She wasn't dumb or uneducated, but something about her -- either her grasp of the things I do and love, or her emotional intelligence -- didn't seem to be "enough" for me.
I hope that doesn't sound snobby. It might. If it does, I'm sorry. But I feel that I really need to be intellectually stimulated, especially by someone to whom I'm going for help of the deepest kind. I need to know that they're smart. I want to be challenged. I don't want to think I'm smarter than they are (we should at least be equals!) Obviously they would know more about therapy & psychiatry than I do. But do you know what I mean -- sometimes you meet "book smart" people who just don't seem all that intelligent, even though they are technically brilliant?
I am wondering: How "smart" are your T's? Do you think they are on the genius IQ level? Normal? Really good at relationships? How important is T intellect to you? Does it even matter, if they are nice & friendly? Do insight & intellect go hand in hand?
I'm sort of floundering here, tryng to figure out why this is imp. to me, and how imp. it is.
thanks in advance for any thoughts!
JenStar
Posted by Dinah on April 29, 2005, at 14:02:41
In reply to is your T's intelligence critical to therapy?, posted by JenStar on April 29, 2005, at 13:51:22
My therapist is smart enough, no genius. But I must confess that my standards for smart enough are pretty high. Every once in a while he mentions his grades (A's of course), perhaps because he knows I respect intelligence.
But his true genius is in emotional intelligence and relationship building. I've never met anyone like him in ability for that.
His biggest failing (to me) is in that sort of sensing that a lot of us grew up to have as a self preservation skill. He can't read the emotions of those around him nearly as well as I can, and he acknowledges it. He says that ability would be both a benefit but a curse as well in being a therapist. We've been together for so long that he knows me enough to read me now.
Which when you think about it makes his truly outstanding relational skills even more amazing. Does it help in maintaining a relationship to be a bit blind to what the other person really thinks or feels? Thinking logically, it might be.
My therapist appears to be weak at insights. I usually have to come up with them on my own. Unless that's his cunning master plan!
Posted by pinkeye on April 29, 2005, at 15:31:50
In reply to is your T's intelligence critical to therapy?, posted by JenStar on April 29, 2005, at 13:51:22
It was very important to me too - to have a highly intelligent T. Actually not just my T, I looked for high intelligence in any relationship as well.
And my ex T was pretty intelligent and had lot of common sense, and I was glad he was that way. I am not sure I would have been able to progress much with a person who was significantly less intelligent than me at that time.
But now, I am going to a new T, who may or may not be highly intelligent. I don't think she is extremely smart in all the areas. But she is an expert in therapy techniques and understanding my emotional patterns. In some areas, even more than my ex T was - because he was a man and had little experience before he started treating me. But she has about 20 years of experience as a T, and that is something to give credit to. Just because she has seen so many patients like me, she knows.
If I were one of the first few patients to her, like I was to my ex T, she would have done far worse with me than my ex T did. But because she has lots and lots of experience, she is able to recognize things that my ex T was not able to - especailly this transference related portions of it.
But my ex T was logically very smart, and he corrected all my logical errors. And my current T is emotionally perspective, and that helps my emotional self to grow more.
In short, it is not all about your logical intelligence. Ideally, you need both - logical and emotional. In fact, too much of logical intelligence puts the emotional self growth at risk - that happened a little bit with my ex T. He would be able to point my mistakes in a second, and I would be able to grasp it in a second, and we both thought that was what was needed, but in fact, for me to change emotionally and grasp things emotionally, it needed longer time, and several times going over the same thing again and again and again. And I think my ex T, because he was extremely intelligent, and perceived me as intelligent, didn't find it needed to do for me. So in a way, since both of us were more logically intelligent, it led to some aspects of the growth being missed out.
I would say all the right things, speaking from my logical mind, and my T, was tuned to my intelligence, as I was to his, and both our brains would match, and we both thought I was doing extremely fine. Whereas my emotional self continued to suffer, and I didn't have a clue why it was happening. I thought I had everything right, and yet I was suffering.
Posted by rainbowbrite on April 29, 2005, at 16:44:14
In reply to is your T's intelligence critical to therapy?, posted by JenStar on April 29, 2005, at 13:51:22
OMG its not snobby at all! It is neccessary. My attempt recently with a T was similar to what you describe. I felt like there was a 'duh' quality to my T. Intelligence to me has nothing to do with the intellignece others have descirbed. Looking at it that way I am not all that bright but my IQ scores says different. So intelligence to me is more about how quick people are. Like picking up on things and knowing about things... outside of research stats. Experience. hmm Im not explaining well as usual (or maybe IQ test lies lol) of course thier education is important but if they cant pick up on social things or sarcasm, I hope someone is following me, than hmm I dont know. But intelligence is VERY important. I would want a T who is smater than me, otherwise it doesnt work IMO.
Posted by Shortelise on April 29, 2005, at 16:49:40
In reply to is your T's intelligence critical to therapy?, posted by JenStar on April 29, 2005, at 13:51:22
it's essential.
he has to be smarter than I am on lots of different levels - he must be able to see my sneaky mind's workings: he has to understand my vocab. He just has to be smarter than I am.
He's not as creative as I am, I don't think. He doesn't understand some things I do, like, the beauty of a biscuit fresh from the oven, made from sctratch, with clotted cream and wild blueberry jam my friend made. Or how certain colours call each other, or shapes need other shapes, or how the purring of a cat curled next to the ear can calm some of the night demons.
He doesn't know everything, he doesn't know everything I know. But yeah, he's has to be smarted than I am, for sure.
ShortE
Posted by annierose on April 29, 2005, at 16:56:28
In reply to is your T's intelligence critical to therapy?, posted by JenStar on April 29, 2005, at 13:51:22
I do think intelligence is critcial to therapy for me. You don't want to be with someone that you can out wit, out maneuver, out smart. Especially with the hard work therapy involves, the client can't be the only one in the chair that is doing some critical thinking.
My T is very smart. She also has a good sense of humor, and is very perceptive with both my mood and body language. She is tuned in to me.
I have a strong personality. If I felt I was stronger than her (emotionally), I don't think it would work. We have a balance, and I like it like that.
Posted by Dinah on April 29, 2005, at 17:58:24
In reply to Re: is your T's intelligence critical to therapy?, posted by annierose on April 29, 2005, at 16:56:28
You are absolutely right. They have to be emotionally stronger than we are. I probably talk most about my therapist's warm receptivity, but his solid core is what makes therapy possible.
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 18:08:47
In reply to is your T's intelligence critical to therapy?, posted by JenStar on April 29, 2005, at 13:51:22
I like all the answers I've read so far, I do think it is important that you feel your therapist is smart. For me, I think that he is "smart" about his timing, which is critical. He seems to say the right things at the right time. And the fact that he is quick, like someone else said is also critical. He can follow my jagged line of thinking, he gets my jokes and he picks up which age state is "out" during sessions.
But I think the most essential thing is that he reads between the lines very well. He gets what I'm trying not to say -- and he never seems to avoid anything. And he is smart enough to say, "I don't know" without freaking me out.
He also acknowledges how smart I am -- and never,ever,ever is condescending. Once he said, "you don't miss a thing, do you?" Ah, "nope and it would serve you well not to forget that."
All that said, I met a woman who was super smart and she was running her psych agency so she had great understanding of the pressure I am under and all the different scheduling challenges that I faced contemplating therapy. She and I were a horrible match. She was all about the brain and what I needed, which I didn't know then, was someone who was all about the soul.
I hope you find a good match!
Posted by rubenstein on April 29, 2005, at 18:16:29
In reply to is your T's intelligence critical to therapy?, posted by JenStar on April 29, 2005, at 13:51:22
This was such a big issue with me when I started therpay because I felt that if someone didn't understand my intellectual side and musical side they couldn't understand me. My T is really smart and totally gets both of those things, and that is why I trust him and think he is so cool. I do think I couldn't see someone who didn't get those things about me, but I also think it is a weakness of mine and something I need to work on.
rubenstein
Posted by alexandra_k on April 29, 2005, at 21:53:24
In reply to Re: is your T's intelligence critical to therapy?, posted by rubenstein on April 29, 2005, at 18:16:29
Yeah, it is important to me too.
I worried if I was being snobby as well, but feel pretty reassured after reading peoples responses here (phew!)I need someone who can think quickly and on their feet
And understand my jokes
And appreciate how important research / uni is to me
And be able to think abstractly to understand meAnd all that is just part of feeling like I 'click' with them. Of course there are other things as well. Sensitivity and the ability to read my emotions. Not perfectly - but to get it when I am feeling upset or distressed and not just to keep blundering on.
But I do think all of that is important with respect to me feeling like we do click.
I worry sometimes that I am over-picky or that my standards are too high or something... But, I don't know...
The t I got on with really well was actually a history lecturer / researcher who turned to clinical psychology comparatively late in the day. We got on great - but I was a bit freaked when I found out (after she was well gone) that she had an academic background herself.
But maybe that was an important part of why we did click.
Posted by pedrito on April 30, 2005, at 17:08:36
In reply to Re: is your T's intelligence critical to therapy?, posted by alexandra_k on April 29, 2005, at 21:53:24
Hey, yes I can vouch that intelligence of the T has been crucial to me too. My first two Ts simply did not "get" the mess of logic, irrational beliefs, assumptions and fears I'd cooked up for myself to stew in.
The last two Ts I've seen, who are significantly more experienced and intelligent, have helped. They are considerably brighter than I am and I think that, for me, this is a necessary requirement. Someone who's able to understand the spaghetti-like mess in my head and unravel it and say "that makes no sense because xyz".
pedrito
Posted by cubic_me on May 1, 2005, at 5:54:13
In reply to Re: is your T's intelligence critical to therapy? » alexandra_k, posted by pedrito on April 30, 2005, at 17:08:36
I completely agree that intelligence is an important factor. It's not the be-all-and-end-all, but it is extremely important for me. My T used to say that she wasn't as intelligent as me when she had to think things through before replying, while I was waiting for a response, but I don't believe that she was less intelligent, she just had very insightful responses that were worthy of a bit of thinking.
She worked with many people with a similar intellect as me, which probably helped her guage what was appropriate for me. She was certainly as intelligent as me, if not more so.
In contrast, the T that leads my group sessions hasn't shown herself to be particluarly intelligent. Maybe she is, but I haven't seen it. Her comments seem very superficial and 'obvious' to me, but I realise that it must be difficult dealing with a group of people who all have different needs.
Posted by B2chica on May 2, 2005, at 11:43:44
In reply to is your T's intelligence critical to therapy?, posted by JenStar on April 29, 2005, at 13:51:22
must say it is very important to me, and i do tend to surround myself by intelligent people so it's natural that i gravitate toward this type of person. i think more or equally as important as intelligence in their field is their security of their own knowledge. i tend to ask a lot of questions, and tend to think outside the box. when i was looking for new T i came across several people that QUICKLY became very defensive, as if i was questioning their 'expertise'. Well, duh...of course i was- i want to be able to ask questions and get answers. i want to spend my time talking about what's inside...not explaining it.
Also, i want someone who's willing to share their knowledge, i understand I'M the patient, but that doens't mean they need to treat me like a tree trunk. Talk to me, explain to me...feed me what i need to heal.
That's what i want.(and i Finally found it) :^)
b2c.
Posted by pedrito on May 2, 2005, at 12:58:49
In reply to Re: is your T's intelligence critical to therapy?, posted by B2chica on May 2, 2005, at 11:43:44
>> i tend to ask a lot of questions, and tend to think outside the box
I also think in very unusual ways. This often comes out in social circles and I often raise quite a smile with some of my "odd" observervations =0]
However, I am in no doubt whatsoever that it's also a very large factor in my depression and anxiety. Instead of agreeing with fact, probability, evidence and logic, I inherently focus on falsehood, improbable things, cognitive beliefs and illogical constructs.
It's hard to elucidate but I'm convinced the two are linked!
pedrito
Posted by B2chica on May 3, 2005, at 9:48:39
In reply to Re: is your T's intelligence critical to therapy? » B2chica, posted by pedrito on May 2, 2005, at 12:58:49
excellent point and linked they are. i'm sure my thoughts also come from my depressive personality. the potential of or unseen basis are much more of a curiosity to me than 'what is'.
i'm not sure i've seen you before pedrito. nice to meet you.
b2c.
> However, I am in no doubt whatsoever that it's also a very large factor in my depression and anxiety. Instead of agreeing with fact, probability, evidence and logic, I inherently focus on falsehood, improbable things, cognitive beliefs and illogical constructs.
>
> It's hard to elucidate but I'm convinced the two are linked!
> pedrito
Posted by pedrito on May 3, 2005, at 10:29:03
In reply to Re: is your T's intelligence critical to therapy?, posted by B2chica on May 3, 2005, at 9:48:39
>
> i'm not sure i've seen you before pedrito. nice to meet you.
> b2c.
>Nice to meet you too b2c,
I used to post here years ago under a different name (can't remember what it was) so I'm an old hand unfortunately.I say "unfortunately" since I'd rather be better and not frequent depression/anxiety message boards but hey, it's kinda nice to be back and I'm just so thankful that this site exists, it's helped me through many a bad time.
pete
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