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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by hffcookie on February 24, 2005, at 11:42:52
hello all
i am posting for the first time here (i have posted in "psyco...") because i have seen a new cognitive therapist about 3 times now as well as have read (over and over and over) "Feeling Good" as well as the handbook. I made copies of the exercises in the handbook and religously filled them out and yes, sometimes i think they helped me quite a bit, esp. when feeling anxiety over something coming up etc. however i am running into a problem with cognitive therapy that my therapist has not helped resolve very well. it seems that in cognitive therapy the underlying guideline of expect nothing, and/or have the lowest expectations possible and you will never feel deprived is, well, depressing in itself. my therapist suggestion was that i change my belief that love is a need (which, i think for self-actualization, is true). i told her i know it is not a need to sustain life, but i cannot convince myself that a life w/o any love is, for me, equivalent of that with... i guess i just have had problems trying to lower my expectations and beliefs to such a low point. and while that may be the way to keep from feeling disappointed, well, it is in itself disappointing to me to think that way.
Another question that i would love any advice on... I am now trying very hard to work through the aftermath of an affair which recently ended. In actuality, it ended in the best way it possibly could with his wife and my husband willing to forgive and trying to rebuild and repair and move on. However I am in the early stages of my marriage and he is in year 15+ with three kids...so, it seems he is much more focused and determined and i am the one still feeling intense lonliness and moments of desperation. the thing is, i am taking a new anti-d that has my sex drive kicking.... because of this and because of the extremely sexually charged relationship between this other man and i, i am now constantly thinking about him when i am aroused. how do i transfer those reactive emotions to someone new? is it possible? and when do i actually begin to believe it is over? i cannot believe it now. it seems unfathomable, unreal. is it just time? and my cognitive therapist doesn't seem to want to address these emotional issues, rather she seems more focused on tangiable day to day issues which, i think, would in large part be resolved if i dealt with the more important issue of the end of this affair and my emptiness. thanks so much for reading this long post and thanks again if you post. take care.
hc
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on February 24, 2005, at 12:06:49
In reply to cognitive therapy - the ultimate downer?, posted by hffcookie on February 24, 2005, at 11:42:52
Cookie,
When I started CBT over a year ago, I felt much like you do. What a total downer! I also was feeling I NEEDED love from others. However, as therapy progressed, it became quite obvious to me that all of these NEEDS which I had neen imposing on myself were causing me much distress and anxiety. There is so much to CBT. I have however finally accepted that the only love I NEED is from myself. And while I may actually really want and desire the love of others, I don't NEED it.
CBT has helped me dispute lots of irrational thinking which I never knew I had. And even 6 months into therapy, I was feeling CBT was kind of pathetic in its low expectations kind of way.
But guess what? The longer I have been applying its principles, and working hard at it, the more it has been working for me. I now go much longer between depressive and anxious episodes, and when I do have them, they last half as long, mainly due to the skills I have learned thru CBT.
I know CBT is not for everyone, but it has worked for me and improved my quality of life immensely. Once you begin to put what you've learned into practice and it actually works for you, I don't think you'll see it as quite so downing.
Posted by sunny10 on February 24, 2005, at 14:04:48
In reply to Re: cognitive therapy - the ultimate downer?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on February 24, 2005, at 12:06:49
the best kinds of relationships are those in which both parites WANT to be together. Need is generally a bad thing to bring into a relationship.
I think what the books and your T are trying to get at, is that the more you love yourself, the more YOU shows. And YOU are worth loving- once you see it for yourself, so will others.
My T told me that if I saw myself as worthless (more like a doormat) that's the kind of man I would attract; one looking for a doormat- not a woman to actually have a 50-50 relationship with.
It sounds like your husband is one man who loves you and is willing to do anything to get you to see and love what he sees in you.
You are lucky in that he will let you take the time in therapy to get what you want out of it. Some of the people here have very unsupportive spouses who make the practice of therapy more difficult.
The coping skills will help a lot. If you find that you get to a point where you can cope but the T still leaves you cold, there are other T'ss and other types of therapy out there.
Good luck with your new endeavor and welcome to PB!
-sunny10
Posted by pinkeye on February 24, 2005, at 15:37:24
In reply to cognitive therapy - the ultimate downer?, posted by hffcookie on February 24, 2005, at 11:42:52
Are you confusing "having expectations" in life and working for things? Therapists only stress reduced expectations - actually not even reduced expectations, only kind of meaningful expecations out of yourself and others and life.
IT does not mean, you should be working only for that, or have only that much in your life. By all means, if you have something extraordinarily good, that is fine. But getting depressed because you don't have something extremely perfect and worrying about it is what is wrong.
It has been one of the basic premises of religions for a long time - do your duty without expecting rewards. And it works.
Posted by hffcookie on March 14, 2005, at 15:37:05
In reply to Re: cognitive therapy - the ultimate downer?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on February 24, 2005, at 12:06:49
Thanks so much for the words of encouragement...I'm sorry it has taken me so long to post but wanted you to know that your insight provided me with some comfort that, even though i know it's hard and sometimes i get cynical, CBT does work and I'm not the only one who feels like this. Best to you!
cookie
> Cookie,
>
> When I started CBT over a year ago, I felt much like you do. What a total downer! I also was feeling I NEEDED love from others. However, as therapy progressed, it became quite obvious to me that all of these NEEDS which I had neen imposing on myself were causing me much distress and anxiety. There is so much to CBT. I have however finally accepted that the only love I NEED is from myself. And while I may actually really want and desire the love of others, I don't NEED it.
>
> CBT has helped me dispute lots of irrational thinking which I never knew I had. And even 6 months into therapy, I was feeling CBT was kind of pathetic in its low expectations kind of way.
>
> But guess what? The longer I have been applying its principles, and working hard at it, the more it has been working for me. I now go much longer between depressive and anxious episodes, and when I do have them, they last half as long, mainly due to the skills I have learned thru CBT.
>
> I know CBT is not for everyone, but it has worked for me and improved my quality of life immensely. Once you begin to put what you've learned into practice and it actually works for you, I don't think you'll see it as quite so downing.
Posted by hffcookie on March 14, 2005, at 15:41:13
In reply to Re: cognitive therapy - the ultimate downer?, posted by sunny10 on February 24, 2005, at 14:04:48
Sorry it has taken me so long to post but i wanted to say thanks for your post...it's so true you know and that is what sucks sometimes. I have this memory of me and then I have this current version of me that is having trouble coping, feeling depressed and low and kind of pathetic...but it was good to read what you posted and i wanted to say thanks. somedays are easier than others. i am happy i can say that instead of some hours are better than others...take care and thanks again. this is such a helpful site.
cookie
> the best kinds of relationships are those in which both parites WANT to be together. Need is generally a bad thing to bring into a relationship.
>
> I think what the books and your T are trying to get at, is that the more you love yourself, the more YOU shows. And YOU are worth loving- once you see it for yourself, so will others.
>
> My T told me that if I saw myself as worthless (more like a doormat) that's the kind of man I would attract; one looking for a doormat- not a woman to actually have a 50-50 relationship with.
>
> It sounds like your husband is one man who loves you and is willing to do anything to get you to see and love what he sees in you.
>
> You are lucky in that he will let you take the time in therapy to get what you want out of it. Some of the people here have very unsupportive spouses who make the practice of therapy more difficult.
>
> The coping skills will help a lot. If you find that you get to a point where you can cope but the T still leaves you cold, there are other T'ss and other types of therapy out there.
>
> Good luck with your new endeavor and welcome to PB!
>
> -sunny10
Posted by hffcookie on March 14, 2005, at 15:45:51
In reply to Re: cognitive therapy - the ultimate downer? » hffcookie, posted by pinkeye on February 24, 2005, at 15:37:24
Sorry for taking so long to post but I wanted to say thanks for your response. I have noticed much truth in your assessment that CBT has a lot in common with many theologies etc. I have been reading some essays written by the Dalai Lama and have found that helps me quell my cynicism...thank you again. this site is very helpful and your response meant much to me. take care.
cookie
> Are you confusing "having expectations" in life and working for things? Therapists only stress reduced expectations - actually not even reduced expectations, only kind of meaningful expecations out of yourself and others and life.
>
> IT does not mean, you should be working only for that, or have only that much in your life. By all means, if you have something extraordinarily good, that is fine. But getting depressed because you don't have something extremely perfect and worrying about it is what is wrong.
>
> It has been one of the basic premises of religions for a long time - do your duty without expecting rewards. And it works.
>
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