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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by thewrite1 on January 17, 2005, at 16:57:33
I don't even know what I want to say. I spoke with my T about our between sessions call. She was perfectly fine with it. In fact, she gave me her home office # in the event of an emergency, which psychologically I'm not even sure what that would be. I told her that I was ashamed to be there and all that. I failed to mention that the call didn't help me.
I'm at a critical point in my life right now where things just seem to be spinning out of control. I want to call her and tell her that I just can't do this life thing anymore. It's just too stressful. On the other hand, I feel I can't count on her. I'm far too dependent on her and it's not fair. I don't even want to be dependent on her. And then I feel like I can't be. I left my session saying to her, "Please don't leave me." She said she was there for me during sessions and if I needed to talk between sessions. I don't feel right about calling and I don't know what I'd say if I did. I don't even know what I'm trying to say here.
Posted by mair on January 17, 2005, at 17:23:20
In reply to stuck, posted by thewrite1 on January 17, 2005, at 16:57:33
When do you see her again? - I'm sorry you're hurting so much, but it really does sound to me like she's trying to let you know that she's not going to abandon you and that she wants to be there for you in whatever way is effective.
Also, I wouldn't worry about the dependency aspect, because it sounds to me like you really need to be able to lean on someone now. Worry about dependencies when you're feeling a lot better.
Not terribly long ago I was talking to my T about therapeutic goals. It really shocked me when she said one of her primary goals was to reduce my isolation. I guess it surprised me because in my mind her goal had nothing to do with improving my life. To me improving my life means I get depressed less easily and frequently - it never occurred to me that improving my life had anything to do with what happens when I am depressed. But I guess from her perspective, she knows that I'm always really going to need her until I develop other support systems (I'm not at all sure I'm making any sense here)
Anyway, my bugaboo is that when I'm most depressed I cut myself off from possible avenues of support, not in a physical way, just internally. I share the fact that I'm in such pain with no one, except maybe my T and she knows I'm loathe to call her between sessions. So maybe what your therapist is trying to do is reduce your own sense of isolation, and if feeling needy and dependent makes you feel a connection to her, then that's a good thing right now.
I don't mean to be presumptuous, but I think what maybe is going on is that you are so isolated emotionally, and she is your life support at the moment, and maybe you need more palpable evidence from her that she's ok with you needing her because she really worries about you and cares about you. I think it's important for you to keep communicating that to her, because I think if you do, she'll let you know that it's totally all right for you to depend on her so much now, and she'll appreciate knowing what she can do to be a more reassuring presence.
I'm sorry to ramble so much.
Mair
And of course we're all here too.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 17, 2005, at 17:26:03
In reply to stuck, posted by thewrite1 on January 17, 2005, at 16:57:33
Maybe write her a note and keep it and make an appt for sooner..its kind of middle of the road if you fear calling and not talking?
HUGS
Posted by B2Chica on January 17, 2005, at 17:29:38
In reply to stuck, posted by thewrite1 on January 17, 2005, at 16:57:33
((((((((((thewrite1)))))))))))))
i'm sorry i don't have the right words. but what you were saying struck a chord with me. It seems like you are in a Lot of pain, a terrible place.
Please remember this horrible feelings will leave. If you feel suicidal PLEASE call 911 or go to the nearest emergency room.it sounds like maybe you are on the verge of something in your therapy, or it's getting to the exploding point of frustration in Not getting it out in therapy. is it working it's way out causing this pain?
would it be possible for you to "work it out" while you were in a safer place such as a hospital?
Do you maybe need to see your T more often?Please let us know how you are doing.
sorry, don't have the right words, but try to take care of yourself.
we're here.
Love
B2c.
Posted by thewrite1 on January 17, 2005, at 22:05:06
In reply to Re: stuck » thewrite1, posted by mair on January 17, 2005, at 17:23:20
I don't see my T again until Sat. and I can't really see her before then. I'm with you, I don't get how being dependent is supposed to help me. I've been doing this for three years. I should be so not dependent by now. I haven't called her. I want to, but I haven't. I just really know what to say. I think I'm going to give it until tomorrow and then if I still feel this way, I'll just call and say that.
Posted by thewrite1 on January 17, 2005, at 22:21:27
In reply to Re: stuck » thewrite1, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 17, 2005, at 17:26:03
She's big on having me write stuff, but she always seems to go the wrong way with it and I can't seem to point her in the right direction. Like I'm not even capable. For that reason, I've pretty much stopped taking things in for her.
This is just so stupid. I need her, but I don't want to need her.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 17, 2005, at 22:25:54
In reply to Re: stuck » Fallen4MyT, posted by thewrite1 on January 17, 2005, at 22:21:27
Maybe write it for you and don't share or save it for a good while...? Also I think many of us hate to need ANYONE....its hard cause its like you have no control in some ways :-/
> She's big on having me write stuff, but she always seems to go the wrong way with it and I can't seem to point her in the right direction. Like I'm not even capable. For that reason, I've pretty much stopped taking things in for her.
>
> This is just so stupid. I need her, but I don't want to need her.
Posted by thewrite1 on January 17, 2005, at 22:26:12
In reply to Re: stuck » thewrite1, posted by B2Chica on January 17, 2005, at 17:29:38
Yes, we are on the verge of something. I've been experiencing different age states (I guess that's the correct term). Being that my mother neglected me through a number of years, it all makes sense. However, my head tells me that it's stupid. I'm 31 years old. I shouldn't need anyone.
I don't really want my life to end. Don't worry about that. I just want to be able to live and dying seems closer than being alive right now. I don't know if that makes sense to you. Everything is just so HARD.
Posted by daisym on January 18, 2005, at 0:46:55
In reply to stuck, posted by thewrite1 on January 17, 2005, at 16:57:33
<<<<<I'm at a critical point in my life right now where things just seem to be spinning out of control. I want to call her and tell her that I just can't do this life thing anymore. It's just too stressful. On the other hand, I feel I can't count on her. I'm far too dependent on her and it's not fair. I don't even want to be dependent on her. And then I feel like I can't be. I left my session saying to her, "Please don't leave me." She said she was there for me during sessions and if I needed to talk between sessions. I don't feel right about calling and I don't know what I'd say if I did. I don't even know what I'm trying to say here.
*****I'm sitting here with tears pouring down my face. I think I know exactly what you are trying to say here. I wrote in my journal last week,"Being disconnected left me alone. Being alone makes me bereft. Being bereft makes me want to cling to you. Being clingy makes me want to yank myself back. Yanking myself back makes me feel disconnected. And we are back at the beginning."
I'm completely aware that the younger parts of me want it to be OK to need my therapist. They missed out on being cared for. AND the stories that have been held in for so long are pouring out. But it is important for some reason that someone else witness these stories and help hold the emotions. I need my therapist to be that person. The adult has lots of hard things to deal with too. But she is the one that hates that word dependency.
I read what you wrote about being 31 and shouldn't need anyone. What does that mean? We all need someone, and different people fulfill different needs for us at different times. I think perhaps we have to step back and say, "pathological" dependency might mean not being able to make daily decisions without our therapists input. or lead to obsessions and poor choices and boundary crossings. I don't think either of us are there. Perhaps it would help us both to realize that we are making a choice to let someone see our emotional pain and try to help us with it.
I think you also might be feeling a reawakening of attachment that younger age states need. And if you didn't have a really secure relationship with at least one careprovider, you may exhibit insecure attachment behaviors. This would explain a lot about wanting more contact and support right now. Perhaps you can try to replace the word "dependency" in your vocabulary with something less loaded.
I don't know if any of this helps. I've struggled so hard with this for over a year. I'm pretty sure at this point there is no right or wrong answer or level of support from a therapist. But it is the same debate that rages over whether to comfort an infant or let them learn to self-soothe. I think we think we need to self-soothe, but perhaps we need a little help doing that right now.
I hope you call her tomorrow.
Daisy
Posted by Shortelise on January 18, 2005, at 1:31:15
In reply to stuck, posted by thewrite1 on January 17, 2005, at 16:57:33
Trust. It's hard to get there.
A place I have got to in therapy is that I feel safe there. I feel cared about, and safe. That I was able to find that safety, and trust in it, allowed me to look into the abyss knowing that it was ok to do so, that there was someone at my side who was looking out for me.
This dependence doesn't last, we grow through it, and come to a place where we don't need it so much. We have explored the nooks and crannies that held the monsters, pushed them into the light and looked at them, hopefully we vanquished some, and are ready to move on. We feel better, and need the safety less, because, oh my dear, we carry our mothers, our safety, whatever we call it, in our own selves. I am nurturing this right now with bits of whatever I think might fertilize this growing sense of safety within my Self. It's hard, and it's long, and it began with reaching out to my T, sometimes by phone.
They don't always say the right things, they don't always understand, and we don't always get from them what we need. Rats. But, if we are lucky, they do care about us, and we are safe with them.
thewriteone, I send you the warmest, safest hug I have. If I were a T and you were my client, I would *want* you to call me.
ShortE
Posted by B2Chica on January 18, 2005, at 12:26:08
In reply to Re: stuck » B2Chica, posted by thewrite1 on January 17, 2005, at 22:26:12
>However, my head tells me that it's stupid. I'm 31 years old. I shouldn't need anyone.
ringging lots of bells lound and clear here. (i'm 31 also) and feel horrible, sad AND angry at myself for "acting like i'm 12".
i have to remember that it doesn't matter my age now. i need to deal with things and these create pain.
> I don't really want my life to end. Don't worry about that. I just want to be able to live and dying seems closer than being alive right now. I don't know if that makes sense to you. Everything is just so HARD.BULEEEVE me. though i'm not in your shoes. i DO understand that statement.
Keep hanging in there.
b2c.
Posted by thewrite1 on January 18, 2005, at 13:56:16
In reply to Re: stuck » thewrite1, posted by daisym on January 18, 2005, at 0:46:55
I feel bad that my message made you cry, but it makes me feel better that someone can understand despite my inability to articulate it.
I think I may call her and tell her that I'm feeling anxious about needing contact with her. Maybe I could say that?
Posted by thewrite1 on January 18, 2005, at 13:57:31
In reply to Re: stuck » thewrite1, posted by Shortelise on January 18, 2005, at 1:31:15
Posted by thewrite1 on January 18, 2005, at 13:59:56
In reply to Re: stuck » thewrite1, posted by B2Chica on January 18, 2005, at 12:26:08
"acting like I'm 12" really rings a bell with me! I couldn't act 12 when I was 12 and now I'm 31 and I feel like I'm acting 12 (or younger). *sigh* It's all so tormenting.
This is the end of the thread.
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