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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by vwoolf on October 18, 2004, at 14:14:41
I have spent all evening thinking about my session with my T today and feeling angrier and angrier. Last week there was a misunderstanding between us - I thought she wanted me to do something, I did it, and then couldn't understand her questioning me around it, as if I had done something wrong. It pushed me into a total spin, hence the suicidal ideation and SI over the weekend. Anyway today we talked about it and the fact that I am always trying to please other people (like I did with my father when he sexually abused when I was little) and can't express my own needs. However this is difficult in therapy when you don't know anything about your T as a person, because everything you think about them is a projection, and you don't know what their needs really are. She asked me what I thought about her and what I thought her needs were. I told her that I thought she was a lesbian, that she leads an interesting alternative life with a lot of political activism and friends, that I couldn't handle it if I thought she was married with children and dogs and swimming pools etc. She said she thought it was because I thought that if she was a traditional housewife like my mother she would never be able to understand me. Which I guess is true. But I think it is also that if she has had only a traditional sort of life she won't be able to understand my sexuality and the difficulties I have been through. The sort of things that meet with dead silence when I mention them on Babble - just nobody identifies with them at all. Which makes me feel weirder and weirder. But now I'm having all sorts of crazy feelings about my T. She of course did not tell me the truth about herself, and in fact I asked her not to. But how can she care, and even more, how can I care if I have no understanding at all about who she is? I hate this sort of relationship, it feels so unfair. There is nowhere to hide. I usually hide myself by fitting in with other people's expectations of me and never revealing my true self. I feel so hurt and vulnerable now wrt my T that I am not sure I'm going to be able to go back.
If you met me you would find me incredibly pleasant and not at all crazy. You would wonder if everything I've been writing to Babble was true. But it is. I just never show anyone who I am. Ever. Not even my husband. Oh God, this is so hard. Because I don't really know who I am, and Babble feels like one of the few places where I tentatively try to say things without caring who thinks what, only to feel so paranoid afterwards when nobody makes any comments because the things I say are so bizarre. So even with Babble I'm trying to please an audience. Damn, damn, damn. I hurt.
This is such a rant. Sorry. I should have tried to reorder my thoughts before posting, but I just feel too pent up at the moment to be able to do anything of the sort.
Posted by vwoolf on October 18, 2004, at 14:16:36
In reply to Other people's needs and me, posted by vwoolf on October 18, 2004, at 14:14:41
And now I want to die. Oh I hate myself!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Susan47 on October 18, 2004, at 15:10:34
In reply to Other people's needs and me, posted by vwoolf on October 18, 2004, at 14:14:41
Just for the record nothing you've said is bizarre.
It's all real, and some of us really can relate.
You strike me as someone with open wounds. Taping the wounds shut to allow them to heal sounds like a good idea. Maybe not seeing your T for awhile will work like tape?
Posted by cubic_me on October 18, 2004, at 15:20:13
In reply to Re: Other people's needs and me:vwoolf, posted by Susan47 on October 18, 2004, at 15:10:34
Hi vwolf,
This all sounds so confusing for you, especially when (like me) you don't show anyone how you really feel and are always playing to an audience. It has taken me 2 years to start to be able to identify feelings and thoughts and tell my T - I just couldn't do it before then. It will take a while, and is very frustrating, but slowly you will get used to the inequality in the relationship. I was only telling my T last week how I used to find it odd that I knew nothing about her when she knew nothing about me, but now I am more comfortable with that, and just use her as a kind of blank canvas to bounce my thoughts off.
Do you like your T in other ways? Do you think it is worth sticking with her until you get over this? Sometimes you can go through a phase of misunderstandings and it can knock you sideways, you don't think you'll ever get through it, but if you generally respect your T and like her, then you can push past it.
By the way, I have wierd sexuality issues, it doesn't make us any more wierd than the person down the street who likes to sweep the path twice a day (or whatever)!
Posted by shortelise on October 18, 2004, at 18:02:58
In reply to Other people's needs and me, posted by vwoolf on October 18, 2004, at 14:14:41
Vwoolf,
I try not to write unless I think I have something to say.How many of us here feel that we are not our real selves anywhere but within our selves? I wonder but I'd think it's a lot.
Maybe it's important to know that about one's self. It helped me when I could be that inside person with my T. It took a long time and a lot of courage.
I honestly think, I truly beilieve that the times I most want not to go back to therapy are times when I am close to something important.
I hope you can find a way to continue to relate to your T. It does sound as though you're getting someplace with her - am I right? DO you feel you've seen to some things with her that needed seeing to?
At times I have had to say to myself, ok, I am going to talk about X and I am going to say what I have to say, I will do it, I will, I will. I will let whatever spills out of me spill out and I will trust my T to know how to help.
((Vwoolf)) LIfe really sucks sometimes. Therapy really sucks sometimes. But sometimes it doesn't and that makes it worth it - to me.
ShortE
Posted by tryingtobewise on October 18, 2004, at 20:59:44
In reply to Other people's needs and me, posted by vwoolf on October 18, 2004, at 14:14:41
Hi vwoolf,
I tend to be more of a reader than a poster, but I just wanted to say that I have never read anything of yours that has come off as weird beyond measure. I think you sound smart, kind, and I think there are probably just as many people out there with sexual difficulties/issues.
Therapy is an unfair dynamic -- even if it is for our own good it is unfair. I sometimes think when therapists ask things like "what do you think of me" it is a bit gratuitous because then in most cases they never confirm or deny.
Anyway, I'm sure others will have more profound input. I just wanted to offer my support.
Kim
Posted by fallsfall on October 19, 2004, at 9:55:16
In reply to Other people's needs and me, posted by vwoolf on October 18, 2004, at 14:14:41
>>There is nowhere to hide. I usually hide myself by fitting in with other people's expectations of me and never revealing my true self.
This is how therapy can help. If you don't know her expectations then you will make assumptions about them, and your assumptions will tell a lot about you. But it *is* really difficult, and uncomfortable, and painful, and weird, and different. It has to be. If therapy were just like all of our other relationships, then it wouldn't be able to help us learn and change.
You have a lot of insight into yourself. Keep going!
Posted by vwoolf on October 19, 2004, at 10:46:28
In reply to Re: Other people's needs and me » vwoolf, posted by fallsfall on October 19, 2004, at 9:55:16
>>If you don't know her expectations then you will make assumptions about them, and your assumptions will tell a lot about you. <<
I know, that's precisely what happened. I made assumptions about what she wanted me to do, and made a total fool of myself. And now I feel as if I have been caught up in a huge wave that is spinning me around and around, so that I don't know where up is and where down, or anything else at all in fact. I am not sure I have the stomach for therapy, I'm feeling seasick.
And thanks for saying I have insight. I feel as if I have none, that I'm just blundering along. I nearly rang her to cancel my next appointment this morning, but then had second thoughts. I'll talk to her about it on Thursday, even though I will no doubt make myself look stupid yet again. I wish this weren't so painful. I now have to go and see my GP as well because of the SI I inflicted on myself over the weekend, and I don't know what he's going to say. He thinks I'm just a happy suburban housewife. And I know I shouldn't worry about what he thinks, but I do.
Posted by vwoolf on October 19, 2004, at 10:58:23
In reply to Re: Other people's needs and me:vwoolf, posted by Susan47 on October 18, 2004, at 15:10:34
I wish taping my wounds would work, but I know I've got to a point where it won't. They'll keep bleeding and suppurating(sp?) through the bandages. If I stop therapy, I'll end up crying on everyone's shoulder, or shooting someone, or of course, the easiest solution of all, hurting myself. So I guess I'll have to keep going to therapy. Sigh. In fact I've already threatened to bring in a shotgun and shoot my T, but it didn't seem to worry her one bit. Gee, I think you must be crazy to be a Psychologist. It's strange, I've kept all this under wraps my whole life, so you'd think I'd have become an expert, but I really can't any more.
Welcome back Susan. How are you? I've been thinking about you and wondering. Send me a Babblemail if you don't feel comfortable with the exposure.
Posted by fallsfall on October 19, 2004, at 11:09:18
In reply to Re: Other people's needs and me » fallsfall, posted by vwoolf on October 19, 2004, at 10:46:28
Don't worry about looking "stupid" to your therapist. They seem to be pretty good at not judging. Mine keeps saying that it is "interesting" that I would feel that way. I guess it helps me to keep going knowing that I am providing him intellectual stimulation ("Why in the world would she do *that*????").
Yes, it can feel like you are swirling around - and completely out of control. Can you trust your therapist to keep you within bounds so you don't go flying off into space?
Make sure you tell your therapist about your SI, too....
Take care.
Posted by vwoolf on October 19, 2004, at 11:10:08
In reply to Re: Other people's needs and me:vwoolf, posted by cubic_me on October 18, 2004, at 15:20:13
Yes, I think I do like my T, although I actually don't know anything about her. I have been scrupulous about not finding out details of her life, so I really only know the few things she has told me - and even those I have asked her to limit because I get so paranoid about them. But I have got to like her odd quirky sense of humour and her funny habits.
As far as having odd sexuality, it is not quite the same as the person who sweeps the path twice, although the image made me laugh. Every time I see my PDoc he tells me about the mystical union and intimacy of true sexual relationship (he's very sweet but he's a Jungian mystic) and I just know that is something I will never be able to have. I am not sure whether I am hetero-sexual or gay, and I think that it actually doesn't matter because both imply relationship, and I am unable to truly be in an intimate relationship. I split every time.
Posted by vwoolf on October 19, 2004, at 11:15:31
In reply to Re: Other people's needs and me » vwoolf, posted by shortelise on October 18, 2004, at 18:02:58
Hi Shortelise, I really appreciate your answering. I have learnt something very important in therapy, I think. I am starting to set boundaries for the first time in my life. Very tentative boundaries it is true, but they are there. I guess I'm not going to quit just yet, but as you say, it really sucks sometimes.
Posted by vwoolf on October 19, 2004, at 11:21:52
In reply to Re: Other people's needs and me, posted by tryingtobewise on October 18, 2004, at 20:59:44
Thanks Kim. It is a very unfair dynamic, you're right. There's a huge power differential, and I hate that. I have been in management positions for a long time, and like to be in control wherever I am, so this powerlessness is really awful.
Posted by Susan47 on October 19, 2004, at 15:16:01
In reply to Re: Other people's needs and me » fallsfall, posted by vwoolf on October 19, 2004, at 10:46:28
It hurt to read that you think you made a fool of yourself, because that's just your assumption, plus if anybody else thinks that of you, then they don't understand.
Vwoolf, I really acted out a lot of stuff with my last therapist, and I made him very angry with me.
In the end, though, I felt it was worth it all, even his pain and suffering, if I caused any. Because I feel like I know, in my heart, that pain causes growth. You're growing and you're beautiful. :)
Posted by Susan47 on October 19, 2004, at 18:55:47
In reply to Re: Other people's needs and me: » vwoolf, posted by Susan47 on October 19, 2004, at 15:16:01
I'm so sorry I didn't mean you hurt me, I just meant, you know, I've been there and that hurt me at the time ...
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2004, at 2:31:16
In reply to Other people's needs and me, posted by vwoolf on October 18, 2004, at 14:14:41
I haven't noticed anything bizarre. I tend to think certain things I say are met with dead silence here too. And maybe they are. Or maybe I just am incredibly sensitive about them and am extra aware of how they are received. But in either case, they're part of me. And in sharing them, I'm sharing me. I can't control how the gift of myself is received, but sometimes the satisfaction comes in the giving, you know?
At any rate, I don't always have something to add to what someone says. But I always appreciate the gift when someone shares of themselves here.
I hope you feel better soon. And I hope that you and your therapist reach an understanding. It can be so deeply moving to be understood and accepted.
This is the end of the thread.
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