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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by PTSD_Girl on August 22, 2004, at 13:28:45
In reply to taking notes, posted by shortelise on August 22, 2004, at 12:42:22
Maybe you could ask your T if you could bring a micro-recorder, kind-of like when you record your University classes. Then you could play back your session when you get home. I don't see why your T would refuse your request. I mean, he should be open to methods that will be of service to you.
PTSD_Girl
Posted by shortelise on August 22, 2004, at 15:32:57
In reply to Re: taking notes, posted by PTSD_Girl on August 22, 2004, at 13:28:45
thanks both P/C and PTSDgirl.
Recording is of course the best idea as even if I am confused, everything is recorded whereas if I am writing, it doesn't.
But the idea of recording is scary - is it just me, does this idea scare anyone else. It means there is no getting around anything... and to listen, yikes ...
I'll think about this. It might be a really really good idea.
Thanks again. Tomorrow, I'll try to take notes. Then I'll have two weeks to think about recording.
ShortE
Posted by Susan47 on August 22, 2004, at 16:41:20
In reply to taking notes, posted by shortelise on August 22, 2004, at 12:42:22
I took notes during one or two sessions and I found them comforting and helpful; and I believe that having the notes to re-read and interpret in different ways afterward stopped me from drawing incorrect conclusions as well.
Posted by Susan47 on August 22, 2004, at 16:44:45
In reply to Re: taking notes, posted by PTSD_Girl on August 22, 2004, at 13:28:45
I thought of doing this but realized that was too dangerous for me because I think I'm what they call hypervigilant. Which would mean that I would listen to the recording with a degree of suspicion afterward. And I would mis-interpret what he said because I would pick up on tones of voice etc which would hit me the wrong way and blammo! I'd be a mess. Don't ask me how that's different from taking notes, it just is. I think. Because I've never done it. I mean recorded a conversation I had with anyone. Oh, there's an interesting new subject.
Posted by PTSD_Girl on August 22, 2004, at 17:04:09
In reply to Re: taking notes » PTSD_Girl, posted by Susan47 on August 22, 2004, at 16:44:45
>Because I've never done it. I mean recorded a conversation I had with anyone. Oh, there's an interesting new subject.<
I used to send "letters" back and forth with penpals that were cassette tapes. It was so neat to get an hour of "talk" from my penpal, and then to record messages back. We'd probably take about a month to do the tapes. It was sooo cool. Of course, this was long before the internet.
I also remember recording a night when I was partying with a guy friend. We had been drinking a lot, and we were past the point of no return. Ha! But listening to that tape was horrible!!! I sounded so odd. I sounded so unsure of myself. My laugh didn't have the strength I thought it did. I just sounded so weak and confident-less. And it wasn't the drink....that was me. Ugh. I sounded the way I thought I actually was...but have always tried to cover up.
As for taping a therapy session, I think it would be good idea....for me. Everyone is different though. But I find that I don't follow the conversation very well when I'm with someone. I think it's just too stressful. So hearing it played back would give me the opportunity to make notes as to what I want to discuss next time. And record THAT session as well, because I'm not going to follow it in real time! Lol!
PTSD_Girl
Posted by Susan47 on August 22, 2004, at 17:20:14
In reply to Re: taking notes » Susan47, posted by PTSD_Girl on August 22, 2004, at 17:04:09
LOL, yes, but that's the beauty of the recording. I also had trouble paying attention in session because I found it extremely stressful. Sometimes I felt like a talking head. (remember Talking Heads? I liked). Can you let us know what you do and how it felt? I couldn't stand the sound of myself either, I would have a hard time listening in afterwards. I'm curious as to your therapist's reaction if you suggest taping a session.
Posted by tryingtobewise on August 22, 2004, at 17:53:41
In reply to taking notes, posted by shortelise on August 22, 2004, at 12:42:22
I take notes as soon after the T session as possible. I think I would feel uncomfortable (aka like a dork) if I did it in the session, and I definitely don't want to hear myself via a recording!!!
:) Kim
Posted by gardenergirl on August 22, 2004, at 20:09:21
In reply to Re: taking notes, posted by shortelise on August 22, 2004, at 15:32:57
I forget so much too, and it is really annoying. In my training, we actually videotape, which is nice, but it also leads to forgetting, because you get used to having that backup. (Hm, wonder if that's related to my forgetting my own therapy...have to think about that...). For some clients, knowing they are being recorded is blocking. They get self-conscious. But I suppose if you are the one doing the recording, and if it's in an unobtrusive place, then it might not be so bad.
I don't take notes, and I don't think I'd like to, as I think it would disrupt the flow...."Dr. T...what was that piece of brilliance again? Wait, hang on...."
Actually, I am exaggerating, but I think it would be too distracting for me.
Good luck whatever you decide...
gg
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 23, 2004, at 7:47:52
In reply to taking notes, posted by shortelise on August 22, 2004, at 12:42:22
Oh, I wouldn't trust my memory esp. when it comes to med directions for samples. I tell the doc to write the directions down on the box with a marker or on a piece of paper. As far as anything else I want to remember, I just write a few words to remember something. I can't write fast.
Posted by Starlight on August 23, 2004, at 17:50:28
In reply to Re: taking notes ? Susan47, posted by PTSD_Girl on August 22, 2004, at 17:04:09
I sometimes take notes about what I want to talk about before a session so I don't forget anything. But haven't thought of taking notes during a session, but then again I'm just doing med appts now and not therapy.
starlight
Posted by shortelise on August 23, 2004, at 19:31:30
In reply to Re: taking notes, posted by Starlight on August 23, 2004, at 17:50:28
I get into such an emotional place ... especially now that we are in the end phase of therapy.
Isn't "end phase" a better term than "termination"?The words just seem to stream around me ... today I couldn't take notes, too busy feeling and trying to listen at the same time - writing is impossible.
I have a portable tape recorder. Maybe next time.ShortE
Posted by alexandra_k on August 24, 2004, at 21:46:31
In reply to Re: taking notes, posted by shortelise on August 23, 2004, at 19:31:30
I used to audiotape sessions and listen to them during the week. It was a bit strange hearing my voice to start with but I got used to it and found it helpful.
I request a copy of session notes now. I find it helpful to see how my T interprets my behaviour etc and we can discuss it if I don't agree or would like to add something.
Posted by Dinah on August 24, 2004, at 21:49:19
In reply to Re: taking notes, posted by alexandra_k on August 24, 2004, at 21:46:31
That's terrific! One thing I don't like about my therapist is that he won't show me his notes. Every once in a blue moon he'll read one back to me, but usually he just asks why I feel the need to ask. Bleck. He says he keeps minimal notes, and the ones he's read back have been pretty benign, but it bothers me that he won't share them. It makes me wonder what he's trying to hide.
Posted by Susan47 on August 24, 2004, at 23:37:56
In reply to Re: taking notes, posted by alexandra_k on August 24, 2004, at 21:46:31
Alexandra, I can't imagine being so brave. I would be so afraid to see my therapist's notes. You must have a very good relationship with your T; you sound really balanced; wow.
Posted by Starlight on August 25, 2004, at 14:25:37
In reply to Session Notes?, posted by Susan47 on August 24, 2004, at 23:37:56
I thought you were entitled to see a copy of the notes according to HIPAA. You might look into that. Be careful what you ask for though. I got a copy of my chart from my Pdoc and found out all sorts of horrible things that he said about me and he violated my confidentiality when charted my herb use after guaranteeing that it would stay just between him and I and not go into my chart. AND it was coded and sent to my insurance company. I have never been more devastated and have lost pretty much complete faith in the entire process. I have a new doc now (who is female) but I distrust them all after that.
Good luck
starlight
Posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2004, at 17:21:34
In reply to Session Notes?, posted by Susan47 on August 24, 2004, at 23:37:56
Heh heh heh, brave I am not, nosey I am :-)
I don't know what the system is in the US but here in NZ you can write to request your file notes. They can refuse if they think that it will result in danger to yourself or someone else, but otherwise they have to hand them over. It takes about three months for the request to come through (they have to hire someone especially to do the photocopying) and I have found it very upsetting at times to read others off hand judgements, but I would rather know at the end of the day.
I just made the point to my T that I would get them sooner or later but would prefer sooner so that I can correct what I perceive to be misinterpretations and misunderstandings. That being said, I still have to pester her for them each week as I like to get them BEFORE the next session.
Posted by lucy stone on August 26, 2004, at 22:09:47
In reply to Re: taking notes » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on August 24, 2004, at 21:49:19
I'm coming in late to this, but I asked my T if I could see his notes. He seemed totally thrown by the request and said that no one had ever asked him before! I said that I found that very hard to believe but he assured me it was true. He said that we needed to think very carefully about it, because we needed to think about why I was asking and what it would mean to see them (he is an analyst, after all), so of course we had to talk about it. In the end I decided not to look at his notebook, but I know that I can if I want to. He says that a patient legally has access to all therapy notes unless the therapist decides that it is not in the best interest of the patient. He said that in that case he is obligated not to give them to the patient. So, Dinah, your T has to give you his notes unless he thinks it is not good for you. You might ask him is that is the case.
Posted by shortelise on August 26, 2004, at 23:29:22
In reply to Re: taking notes, posted by lucy stone on August 26, 2004, at 22:09:47
Frankly, I don't think I'd want to. My psychiatrist made it clear from the beginning that should I ever want to look at them, we'd do so together. But therapy is hard enough without looking at what he's written - I don't need to go there.
ShortE
Posted by antigua on August 27, 2004, at 9:14:50
In reply to looking at T's notes, posted by shortelise on August 26, 2004, at 23:29:22
I guess these are all good reasons why my T doesn't take or keep notes.
antigua
Posted by alexandra_k on August 27, 2004, at 20:31:52
In reply to looking at T's notes, posted by shortelise on August 26, 2004, at 23:29:22
I respect that different people will have different feelings on this one. I guess that I like to see mine because I want to know what my T really thinks is going on for me. I like to know this in an upfront way so that I can consider it and maybe accept it, and / or work to change it, and / or tell my T why I think that she is way off the mark. For me it is part of taking an active role in my treatment.
...But then I have been told that I have a real habit of over-rationalising things, and maybe doing this is just part of that tendancy. A lot of what is in my file really pains me, and then I have to make decisions as to whether I take it to heart or rationalise away what they are saying about me. Not sure if it is good for me in the long run or not to know what other people think about me.(Perhaps there is a middle ground here somewhere???)
Posted by caraher on August 28, 2004, at 14:48:02
In reply to Re: Session Notes?, posted by Starlight on August 25, 2004, at 14:25:37
> I got a copy of my chart from my Pdoc and found out all sorts of horrible things that he said about me and he violated my confidentiality when charted my herb use after guaranteeing that it would stay just between him and I and not go into my chart. AND it was coded and sent to my insurance company. I have never been more devastated and have lost pretty much complete faith in the entire process. I have a new doc now (who is female) but I distrust them all after
How awful! The psychologist I see deliberately does not maintain a complete set of notes so that in case something happens like a divorce lawyer tries to get hold of them there's nothing to give (or at least that's what she told me). I've never asked to see them but we have talked about what's in them and how she uses them. And I always have a notebook available myself to jot things down, but make no effort to keep extensive notes of the session - mostly reminders, assignments, and I also write in advance anything I want to be sure to mention.
Posted by Dinah on August 28, 2004, at 16:58:41
In reply to Re: taking notes, posted by lucy stone on August 26, 2004, at 22:09:47
I know I have a right to them, and I'm an old hand at requesting my files from almost everything. I have a whole binder of all sorts of records, especially lab tests. I get a copy of all of those.
But I've never felt strongly enough to make an issue of it. When he has read the notes, they have been fairly innocuous. The sort of minimal notetaking he feels he needs to do under the law. But he says he doesn't take extensive notes because he wants to maintain patient privacy, and I haven't known him to lie. But I still wonder why he won't let me see the notes if there's nothing really in them. ??? Maybe one day I'll talk to him about it.
Posted by thewrite1 on August 30, 2004, at 23:06:02
In reply to Re: looking at T's notes, posted by antigua on August 27, 2004, at 9:14:50
I asked my T several times to see her notes. It always led to this big discussion of why I felt I needed to see them. Finally one day after I'd asked her the previous week, she brought them in. I won't say that I'm sorry I looked at them, but I probably won't be asking again. They were very vague and I barely recognized them as being about me. I mentioned something to her once and I found it peppered all through her notes. It was uncomfortable for me to know she read that much into it, when I didn't really feel it was a big deal. It hasn't come up again, but I can't help but wonder if it's still showing up in her notes.
Posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 0:56:56
In reply to Re: looking at T's notes, posted by thewrite1 on August 30, 2004, at 23:06:02
I noticed the same thing about the evaluation with the psychologist. I made some throwaway remark that I didn't think through that much, and found the phrase sprinkled throughout the evaluation. Some things must stick with them for some reason that we can't fathom.
But I'll bet the opposite is true, too. I'll bet if I were to write a therapy summary, the phrases that would stick with me are ones he never remembered uttering, while what he considers pearls of wisdom I probably laugh off.
Posted by thewrite1 on August 31, 2004, at 19:06:31
In reply to Re: looking at T's notes » thewrite1, posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 0:56:56
Yeah, I think we all experience things differently even if it is through the same experience.
This is the end of the thread.
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