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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 33. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 3, 2004, at 16:27:38
You ask a very good question about how to remember. We might want to run it by Dr. Bob, but I'd be pretty sure that if it was a "forget" with no bad intent and you honored a reminder that would be good enough.
As for name changes - it really doesn't happen much. Occasionally, for privacy reasons, someone feels the need to change, but it is supposed to be announced in admin. And NO ONE is allowed to switch back and forth. It's a blocking offense.
That said, there are a couple of people (an amazing low number, considering how public this is) that have been known to change names more than once. Correct me someone if I'm wrong here, but they were people that caused havoc, got blocked and then came back later, looked nice at first and blindsided folks.
Quite a few were very hurt when this happened, so I'm sure that you can see where they are more than a little gun-shy. Especially since some of the posts you made seemed cantankerous.....
Hey, I have to admit that on first read I thought you were looking for trouble. Later when I reread some things it didn't seem that way to me - in fact it seemed quite pleasant. Ah, the hazards of the net - what you hear in your head as you type can be completely different than what others read.
Now - I have to run. I probably am through for the day - my sister is having bypass surgery tomorrow and I'll be on the phone a lot tonight.
Can we resume later?
Posted by gardenergirl on August 3, 2004, at 21:53:14
In reply to Fires - over here!, posted by AuntieMel on August 3, 2004, at 16:27:38
Just wanted to say I'll keep you and your sister in my prayers. I hope her surgery is successful. Take care,
gg
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 4, 2004, at 1:14:32
In reply to Fires - over here!, posted by AuntieMel on August 3, 2004, at 16:27:38
I hope the surgery goes well. Keep us posted.
Posted by B2chica on August 4, 2004, at 9:27:53
In reply to Fires - over here!, posted by AuntieMel on August 3, 2004, at 16:27:38
Posted by Dinah on August 4, 2004, at 9:41:16
In reply to Fires - over here!, posted by AuntieMel on August 3, 2004, at 16:27:38
Best wishes to your sister.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 4, 2004, at 12:01:18
In reply to Fires - over here!, posted by AuntieMel on August 3, 2004, at 16:27:38
For just trying to understand. Progress was being made, but that's probably nipped in the bud. I'm just sick....
And taking a break. A long break.
Posted by partlycloudy on August 4, 2004, at 12:22:49
In reply to Re: Nice guy gets blocked....., posted by AuntieMel on August 4, 2004, at 12:01:18
I'm sorry you feel that way, Mel. Maybe a babble break is a good idea.
Posted by Dinah on August 4, 2004, at 12:27:32
In reply to Re: Nice guy gets blocked....., posted by AuntieMel on August 4, 2004, at 12:01:18
I hope it's a relatively short break, Mel. I know you put a lot of effort into this relationship and it must be painful for you.
Again, I'm sorry about that other misunderstanding. I hope there are no hard feelings.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 5, 2004, at 9:53:57
In reply to Re: Nice guy gets blocked....., posted by AuntieMel on August 4, 2004, at 12:01:18
Sis is doing fine. She got out of surgury late last night (my time - we're not on the same time zone) and they said there were no problems. She's in icu right now. It's still a shock. She's only 55 and there is no (zip, nada, nil) history of heart problems in the family.
Dinah - If you felt the email I sent you was directed at you, it wasn't. I just needed to vent and your email was one of the few I knew.
Explanation for the break. I'll start with a story.
One time when I was about nine or ten, my dad sent us (the kids) to my uncle's house for most of the summer. That in itself wasn't a big deal because we were shipped off somewhere almost every summer.
Now I love this group of cousins dearly, but they were kids themselves and they had their own friends and lives. Understandable, but sometimes I felt like a tagalong.
One day they wanted to hang out with their friends and I wanted to go skating, so I decided I'd go skating by myself. No big deal. While I was out I saw a group of girls about my age and sort of skated in their general direction, but not *to* them, hoping I would be invited to join in. I was very pleased when I saw them coming towards me - until - they surrounded me and left me no escape. The girls taunted me, laughed at me, told me I was ugly and so on for about five minutes, when they were stopped by someone older.
I was shaken to the core. And scared. I'm sure this is where a lot of the self loathing came from. And to this day there is a disconnect between feelings and rational thinking.
NOTE: the following bits are not directed to any particular persons. I truthfully couldn't say who did what I'm talking about were without going to the archives, and I'd rather stay ignorant on this.
When I saw all this going on with fires, it all rushed back in a huge way. It seemed to me like fires was in the same situation, with a large number of the 'regulars' telling him that his feelings - and him - were invalid. If I hadn't tried to help, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.
And what made it exponentially worse for me was that the people I percieved were doing the circling were people that I cared for.
This has opened up a lot of raw feelings for me, feelings that I had successfully managed to tuck away in the back of the closet, I wish had stayed there.
So, I can continue on as if nothing happened but being afraid all along if I might say the wrong thing at the wrong time and be ostracized. Or I can protect myself and leave. Maybe for a short time, maybe forever - the jury is still out.
I just thought the folks here deserved an explanation.
Good luck to all.
Mel
Posted by daisym on August 5, 2004, at 18:49:13
In reply to My sis - and an explanation, posted by AuntieMel on August 5, 2004, at 9:53:57
Mel,
I'm glad to hear your sister is doing well. These things can be stressful so make sure you are taking care of yourself too.
I wanted to respond to your thoughts about Fires and your feelings. I'm not trying to persuade you to stay but it makes me sad that this issue continues to drive people away or makes people cautious about participating here.
I've been a part of babble for 9 or 10 months. I found this site when my own experiences in therapy were overwhelming and I thought the process of getting better was making me "nuts." It was such a relief to have folks here say, "no, that is normal." Shared experiences, shared sadness and shared smiles made this a really great place to be. We have had some great threads (therapist cookies!) and I know that folks here have help me make it through some really really bad days. We have disagreed and taken each other to task for things. (Ask KK about the discussions regarding her therapist at one point.)
So it was really jarring to have someone show up who could cause so much discord. I still don't get why someone who doesn't believe in therapy or in some of the mental health issues being discussed, would WANT to hang out here. Unless they thought they needed to save us from the mental health community, what could possibly be the motive? I'll never know the answer to that. And, a poster's motives are not really my business anyway.
My way of handling all of it was to just stop reading or posting to threads that I found upsetting. As a reasonably intelligent adult, this seemed a good choice for me. After all, we mark some threads as "possible triggers" don't we? That way people can avoid them if they are feeling fragile.
What I don't get now is why there seems to be this feeling that the wagons were circled unfairly...it seems that Fires has become the "victim" in this whole mess, instead of a willing participant. I will not presume to know the real tone or intention of his posts. There are mixed feelings about that. But no one seems to disagree that they "could be" offensive or taken wrong.
Ultimately I will offer this. I think Babble is a place to ask for what you need (support, advice, help, even a hug); give what you can (support, advice, experiences, hugs) and leave what doesn't fit for you. Despite the general tone of support typical of this board, those that want to challenge the beliefs held here are free to do so, but hopefully not in a way that is confrontational or hostile, and hopefully they won't do it within a thread that wasn't intended to illicit that type of response. And those that don't want to debate an issue are free to not respond to a thread that sets up a challenge.
I've said it before. It makes me sad that people who have so much to offer feel they need to leave or feel driven away by this mess. It wasn't always like this.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 5, 2004, at 21:38:24
In reply to My sis - and an explanation, posted by AuntieMel on August 5, 2004, at 9:53:57
I'm glad your sister got through surgery well. You must be exhausted yourself. Please take care.
Warmly,
gg
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 5, 2004, at 23:55:07
In reply to My sis - and an explanation, posted by AuntieMel on August 5, 2004, at 9:53:57
I can imagine the shock of having your sis with surgery. My sister had a routine abdominal surgery and had 3 pulmonary blood clots. It scared us all to death! She is okay now. I hope your sis makes a rapid recovery.
The experience that you shared was powerful. AuntieMel, I feel that I have done what you have done here, but what I realized is it wasn't really about that other person/object/issue. It was really about my old very painful feelings. I was projecting my undealt with pain in a safer fashion. Please, let me explain.
Actually, I did it with an old house this past year. I passed up a beautiful antique home over a 100 y/o one day and noticed it was being torn down board by board. I told my husband to stop and I went in it and my feelings were just overwhelming. I was crying about what I saw. It was once gorgeous and it was ransacked by vandals. The owner totally neglected the gorgeous two story home on a beautiful piece of land with wonderful oak trees. I contacted the owner and told him my feelings. I called several organizations. I even wrote a poem and put it in the paper dedicated to the old house. But, all this was really was about was I projected my pain of feeling of not be loved, neglected, useless, and abused as a child onto that house. While this may not be the exact feelings you felt with this powerful memory, at least you know what memory it is. I went around for months trying to save the unsavable. I am sure subconsciously I knew this. Seems crazy now, but I try not to think about it. I mean .. I might write another poem. NOOOOO!!! Stop it! Shadows! It is easy to get caught up in somethings..... Where's that owners phone #? Stop!! BREATH! 1....2....3...It's a diversion ... Steering the wheel to get back on track again.. Whew!!!
I feel you have a heart of gold. We are all just posters writing back and forth and like Kali stated - make the focus -taking care of your needs now.;-)
Darn, I need to do some exercise or something. That was just overwhelming. What was I NNOOOOOO!
Posted by AuntieMel on August 6, 2004, at 10:02:16
In reply to Re: My sis - and an explanation » AuntieMel, posted by daisym on August 5, 2004, at 18:49:13
Just to be clear (grin) I am taking a break - from everything but this topic. Like a dog and a bone, I guess, or maybe I am afraid that if I don't keep it up it'll die on it's own. In my opinion that would be an injustice.
As to anti-therapy, this is an example of what I think I read differently than others did. It's from the first post of a new thread about CBT:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040603/msgs/354179.html
"I realize these are rather unusual Q.s, but CBT doesn't seem to get "balanced" reporting in the journals. BTW, I'm not interested in critiques of CBT done by psychoanalytic organizations or therapists (if there are any still left ;) )"It seemed that some folks took this as an attack on other forms of therapy and started countering that part rather than answering the questions. I read it as:
"I know these are unusual questions, but my research hasn't shown what seems to me to be unbiased opinions or studies. Anything written by the psyconalytical community is bound to have a built in bias. So I would like to hear from anyone who has been through it."
with the aside 'if there are still any left' complete with smiley to show it's written in good humor.
As to the wagons circling. I'm not sure if what you don't get is the 'unfairly' bit (meaning they circled but you thought it was fair) or the circling bit (meaning you didn't see any banding together.) If you just didn't see the circling bit, there was talk of it in social around the middle of july. This was where I HAD to say something or risk losing a part of myself.
And Shadows, I'm mentioning the next bit as an explanation of some of the confusion, not as an attack. K?
Sometime in there you issued a troll alert. I knew who you were talking about but couldn't reply with civility. Fires was clueless, though. Because at the same time our "friend" with multiple names had come for a visit. And unfortunately chose fires as someone to agree with - just to aggrevate everyone else. In the first incarnation, Dinah caught a civility problem and blocked him. In the second, I tried to send Dinah an email, messing it up completely which caused other problems. But that was promptly taken care of (Good work Dinah if you are reading this.)...............................MEANWHILE I was cryptic in my warnings to fires telling him to watch his back (meaning don't get too friendly with this person) and he assumed the troll alert was also about the other person. (Does this make sense?)
So, when he piped up with 'i was falsely accuse of being one' I really think he was just trying to set the record straight. I don't think there was any harm intended.
Do you guys understand any of this?
DISCLAIMER: THE TONE OF THIS MESSAGE IS MEANT TO BE CONVERSATIONAL, NOT CONFRONTATIONAL. ;)
Posted by DaisyM on August 6, 2004, at 10:29:14
In reply to Re: my break - an example - shadows and daisym, posted by AuntieMel on August 6, 2004, at 10:02:16
I guess my point was that each of us should choose which threads we read and respond to. If the subject or tone of the thread doesn't work for you, fine, back out. If it does, fine. You can always end a discussion by not continuing to respond. It just seems healthier to me than this brew-haha...because as you said, you can't hear a post and it totally can be taken the wrong way.
I'm not inclined to figure out who did what to whom, it doesn't take us anywhere. As with all things, there are 2-sides, multiple zigs that should have been zags and then the inevitable overcorrections. I'm suggesting that this is typically a place that is fun and supportive. I'd like to see us get back there. I think the therapy vacation club is one of those types of threads.
I hope your break is a short one. I've enjoyed our discussions.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 6, 2004, at 10:51:49
In reply to My point » AuntieMel, posted by DaisyM on August 6, 2004, at 10:29:14
I agree with you about choosing threads. Something we can all agree on, but we can also agree that sometimes that's easier said than done;)
I'm not trying to lay blame either. 'Cause it seems to me that the whole thing just got way out of hand and there is plenty of blame from all directions (smiling as I say this) And in fact, I've grown attached to people around here and would hate to accuse anyone - and I truly don't believe any of this started out of meanness.
I feel like the lone person trying to consider that maybe fires has a place here too, and that I'm shouting into a wind no one can hear me.
I just wish people would look at things with an open mind and see there is a *slight* chance that maybe they misread something and reacted to the misreading.
And I (wistfully) wish we could all come to some kind of understanding as to what could have been done differently.
And then I could be happy in babble land again.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 6, 2004, at 11:40:53
In reply to Re: My point » DaisyM, posted by AuntieMel on August 6, 2004, at 10:51:49
>
> I feel like the lone person trying to consider that maybe fires has a place here too, and that I'm shouting into a wind no one can hear me.I'm sorry you feel alone in this, but I think if you go back and look at threads, you might notice that others have made overtures to fires as well.
>
> And I (wistfully) wish we could all come to some kind of understanding as to what could have been done differently.
>
> And then I could be happy in babble land again.I feel sad about this. With as many different posters as we have here, you'll get as many different understandings of what might have gone wrong and how it could have been avoided. I think this is something from which we all will learn our own lessons. So I hope you can be happy with your own sense of growth from this.
Take care,
gg
Posted by AuntieMel on August 6, 2004, at 12:40:57
In reply to Re: My point » AuntieMel, posted by gardenergirl on August 6, 2004, at 11:40:53
I knew it would be too much to ask - but to me it makes no sense to not even consider anything except 'he's wrong and I'm right'
So what I'm getting out of this is a reminder of 'no good deed goes unpunished.'
And I'm guilty by association.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 6, 2004, at 12:53:21
In reply to Re: You are right, but... » gardenergirl, posted by AuntieMel on August 6, 2004, at 12:40:57
> I knew it would be too much to ask - but to me it makes no sense to not even consider anything except 'he's wrong and I'm right'
>
> So what I'm getting out of this is a reminder of 'no good deed goes unpunished.'
>
> And I'm guilty by association.
>I know I am not inside your head :) and I was, until now, observing your conversation from the outside, but I am not sure I see that you are being found guilty. I don't see that you are being punished. But I certainly understand that stuff like this can feel that way. Is there something going on outside of Babble that I am not aware of? Can you say a little more about it? (Sorry, I think my T hat jumped onto my head for a minute there! )
Take care,
gg
Posted by AuntieMel on August 6, 2004, at 13:55:14
In reply to Re: You are right, but... » AuntieMel, posted by gardenergirl on August 6, 2004, at 12:53:21
I give - what *does* a T hat look like? I'm picturing Micky's wizard hat in Fantasia. If I'm not close please let me keep my fantasy.....
Sorry, that last bit sounded like I was just wallowing in self pity, didn't it. Ok, I was, but every girl has a right to wallow once in a while.
Nothing much going on outside babble, actually. Except that I live what feels to me like a dull boring life (that most people would thank their lucky stars for). And I keep trying to find out what the heck is wrong with me - and finding out that the symptoms between disorders [add, depression, and scores of physical ailments] are the same or overlap. The meds and therapy are helping a lot with the depression except for a residual constant edgy-ness that drives me nuts, plus being easily distracted, having no short term memory to speak of - you know the drill....
But - here's the rub - I always had control over emotions. More than is healthy probably, but By God I was going to go through life with my chin up and NO one was going to know what is going on inside.
And that's the cruelest irony of all. Here I find myself struggling for an ideal, knowing it's a waste of time, but feeling that I need to do it anyway. And finding out that I actually *care* about the people here, and crying over the whole mess [when I haven't shed a tear in at least a couple of years.] So, something that should be trivial has affected my core.
Other than that - not much going on....
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 14:06:04
In reply to Re: my break - an example - shadows and daisym, posted by AuntieMel on August 6, 2004, at 10:02:16
AuntieMel,
Did you read my story about the house? I was thinking about that house last night. You know, I was actually at one point going to picket in front of it?
My point is no one asked my help. They didn't need my help. It was all my idea. I jumped on something that no one needed me to fix. I couldn't fix it anyway. I really was never involved. It wasn't my land. It wasn't my problem. It was too late anyway. So, why was I taking on something that wasn't mine? Why was I doing that?
Posted by AuntieMel on August 6, 2004, at 14:22:19
In reply to Re: my break - an example-shadows, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 14:06:04
Oh, yeah, I know exactly what you mean about the house. I would have been there picketing with you. To abuse something like that should be criminal. It should be treated gently, like the elderly matron that it is.
I think my perception is all out of whack right now. It felt to me that I just got a drubbing on admin, but my mikd is so f'd up that I just don't know and I should step back.....
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 14:34:18
In reply to Re: my break - an example-shadows » Shadowplayers721, posted by AuntieMel on August 6, 2004, at 14:22:19
Well, It was my perception that the house could be saved. It wasn't mine to take on. It brought up old intense feelings. Still does actually. It's a symbol. I was on a mission impossible. Where's the music?
Hey, don't go anywhere. Just stay with us.;-)
Posted by AuntieMel on August 6, 2004, at 15:20:17
In reply to Re: my break - an example-shadows, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 14:34:18
Stay? I don't know. I'll have to think about it, but right now I don't think so. Right now, I have 2? 3? people that'll still speak to me? My perception is whacked. I thought I made a polite reply over on admin, but apparently not. Our guest doesn't want to look at an entire thread, so it feels to me like she's getting dribs and drabs of things out of context, and I don't want to give her anything from the dark side because I know that will for sure irritate people even more and that's not what I want snd I feel like a little kid yelling 'that's not fair' and I'm sitting at the office unable to work 'cause I've got tears running down for the first time in 15 years or so (sober at least) and I can still see those girls surrounding me and it all JUST STINKS.
And now, I'll probably get a pbc, to boot.
Posted by Dinah on August 6, 2004, at 15:59:17
In reply to Re: beating my head against a wall. » Shadowplayers721, posted by AuntieMel on August 6, 2004, at 15:20:17
I don't see anything wrong on admin? Did I miss something?
Or that the majority of people aren't talking to you or are angry with you.
If you don't want to point it out, you can email me. I've got a bit of time at the moment, so promise to answer.
Speaking only for me, I can see where you're coming from (showing my age here) and I can respect your position. And in the areas that we have come to different conclusions, I am comfortable agreeing to disagree? As much as I might wish it to be so, not everyone will see the brilliant wisdom of my persuasive arguments on this or any other subject and I imagine this is true for everyone. Frustrating, I know, but true.
Can we all just agree to disagree, act as we see fit within the civility guidelines of the site (or maybe even a bit above and beyond them), and realize that we all have a lot of other things in common that we could be discussing?
Goodness gracious, I'm sounding like that coke commercial now. :)
(P.S. I've told my therapist that if I emotionally divorce Babble I'll probably need to see a lot less of him. This place can stir the pot *a lot* in those of us who had successfully buried many issues. FWIW, Babble is a great source of therapy material.)
Posted by daisym on August 6, 2004, at 16:27:59
In reply to Re: beating my head against a wall. » Shadowplayers721, posted by AuntieMel on August 6, 2004, at 15:20:17
You can borrow my hanky...
This is precisely why I stay off admin. I've been tearful myself for days. Maybe it is in the moon and stars.
I like what Dinah said. I'm gonna hang out in Open for awhile if you want to chat.
Your sensitivity touches me.
Daisy
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