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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by Susan47 on July 20, 2004, at 17:38:45
In reply to oops, I meant confessEE role (nm), posted by Joslynn on July 18, 2004, at 20:26:04
I think I know what you mean about your therapist dislosing stuff. Mine used to say stuff like "are you surprised that a lot of people stay together for the sake of the children?" and other stuff that sometimes I really wonder if he was talking about himself, and wanting me to take care of him.
Hmh.
Also, his face used to reflect a response to everything I said, Sometimes, I know, it was an automatic response you'd give to a client to show sympathy or understanding ... but many times it seemed to be a genuine personal reaction to something I said about myself. I hated that, and called him on it over and over again until now, his face is like stone. Last session he blushed for about thirty seconds and then got ahold of himself. I'd just given him a conclusion I'd come to about him.
The last few times I've seen him, I haven't been able to look at his face when I say anything really important. I always look at the wall or the ceiling. I don't want to know what he's reacting to. \
Anybody know what that's about?
Posted by pegasus on July 20, 2004, at 18:10:24
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by Susan47 on July 20, 2004, at 17:38:45
So, now I really want to know what conclusion you had come to about him that made him blush! Would you consider sharing?
pegasus
Posted by Susan47 on July 20, 2004, at 20:26:32
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn » Susan47, posted by pegasus on July 20, 2004, at 18:10:24
Absolutely, if you promise to give me your input.
:)
Here goes. I told him I think he's the type of man who gets turned off very easily, which can be difficult when you're giving someone therapy, because respect is a big issue, and he has to respect all his clients. I told him I think he struggles with that. He went quite red for a few seconds then I could see him struggling to control himself, and when I finished speaking he slightly nodded his head.
I really don't like his noncommital responses. I told him there's a problem with therapy; usually I'm the only one being honest.
I really do have a lot of trouble with that one. It's his job to be supportive and accepting, right? I'm never dealing with a real person!!
Posted by pegasus on July 21, 2004, at 10:56:36
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by Susan47 on July 20, 2004, at 20:26:32
Oh my, you are brave. So, you're interpreting his blushing and struggling as confirmation of your conclusions? I'm thinking maybe it could also have been that he was angry and defensive - feeling unjustly accused. But I don't know him as well as you, and you're probably right about your conclusions.
So, to be brutally honest with my reaction:
You know, on the honesty issue, I think a really good therapist can *be* honest when they are supportive and accepting. It's part of the training to learn how to accept and support everyone. My old therapist once mentioned how in his training they would struggle with how to feel compassion toward difficult people, and one instruction was to reduce the client's age in their imagination until they could see them as innocent. He said sometimes they would have to reduce the person to an infant to get back in touch with that compassion. I would worry that anyone who really still struggles with that - to the point where their clients can see it - would have a hard time being an effective therapist.
On the other hand, it does sound like you've asked him to try to put on a carefully arranged mask for you. You didn't like it when he was showing all of his honest reactions, right? And then in this scenario, you gave him some pretty big challenges to maintaining that mask by making a rather uncomplimentary - and probably right on target - interpretation about him. So it sounds like you're feeling ambivalent about the honest reaction versus stone faced thing. Or maybe just about the way *he* uses both of them. Am I way off target there? I'm just spinning a long story from the short explanations that you've given, so I could be making it all up.
pegasus
Posted by Susan47 on July 21, 2004, at 16:24:52
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by pegasus on July 21, 2004, at 10:56:36
I'm going to give you short responses because I think better that way. I probably don't know T as well as I like to think... I don't, as I do most of the talking. Yes, he may well have been angry I came to the wrong conclusion and maybe I unjustly accused him, but to be honest, I'm so pugnacious in my desire to be taken seriously, that to me, anger is better than nothing? At least he'll have SOME emotion when he looks back at the session!!!
Posted by Susan47 on July 21, 2004, at 16:28:51
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by pegasus on July 21, 2004, at 10:56:36
Pegasus,
I LOVE your interpretation! Thank you so much for giving me your input, it helps a lot.
I can see the need to reduce some people to infants in order to feel compassion towards them. I suspect we all could use a bit of that training....and I have to admit, I've come into his office unexpectedly twice now, (trying to desensitise myself) and he's sitting hunched over his desk thinking furiously. I gather he thinks rather a lot.
Posted by daisym on July 21, 2004, at 19:48:21
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by pegasus on July 21, 2004, at 10:56:36
I worry a lot that I'm a difficult client. "What must you think" is an oft-uttered line. But I've never doubted his compassion or commitment to me.
I asked him once if he had ever had a child-abuser as a client. He thought about it a long time before he answered me and wanted to know why I wanted to know. I said I wondered how he could treat someone with compassion, knowing the pain we were dealing with, the pain they caused someone like me. He said he also wondered if under my question was another question, which is "can they get help and change?" But he said he has seen and heard so much over the years that he is rarely shocked and often touched by the things people bring into therapy. He said if he doesn't feel a connection to someone early on, he doesn't usually continue to treat them. But he also said if he finds something out during treatment, he doesn't abandon them either.
I think this must present so many challenges.
I'm glad he doesn't have a mask. If I don't want to see what he is feeling, I look out the window. But sometimes I need to see my pain reflected in his eyes to make it OK for me to feel it. Does that make any sense?
But he definitely has moods. Sometimes he is really playful -- for his birthday I gave him a card about a talking frog. Some time after that, we had a session where every subject was a dead end. He said, "We need the talking frog." I said, "What would he say?" He said, "Not a very ribbiting session." LOL
Then we spent 10 minutes talking about puns.
Posted by Susan47 on July 21, 2004, at 19:57:45
In reply to Re: T questions-compassion, posted by daisym on July 21, 2004, at 19:48:21
It sounds like you have a very good relationship with your T. Do you see him very often? I'm just curious because I try to make my visits as infrequent as possible, and I think that's been a problem.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 21, 2004, at 23:15:32
In reply to Re: T questions-compassion, posted by daisym on July 21, 2004, at 19:48:21
Daisy,
I absolutely love your T. You can tell him that. I'm so glad for you!gg
Posted by daisym on July 22, 2004, at 12:00:54
In reply to For Daisym, posted by Susan47 on July 21, 2004, at 19:57:45
Susan,
I have tons of contact with my therapist. He is psycho-dynamically oriented, and believes that "our" relationship is of primary importance. When I was going once a week, we didn't get very far and I frequently had melt downs in between. But I have a very hard time trusting this attachment. When I really struggle with it, or against it, his solution ALWAYS is to have me come in more. I tend to be very strong about solving my own problems. Learning to lean on someone and allow my needs to be met is very hard. It is the core of what we are working on. Not that there aren't tons of other issues. I'm a bit of a mess, as they say. I think I'm very lucky to have found him, because he respects the other demands in my life but he reaches past those to insist that I do what is best for me, even when I can't see it.Phone contact between sessions has been a whole other struggle but again, he thinks more is better. He is very clear about his boundaries, and that it might take a few hours for him to get back to me, especially on weekends. But he insists he wants to hear from me.
I think it is hard in some cases to move forward when you have to spend part of the session reconnecting. I think there are others here who have had the experience that increasing their frequency has increased their productivity. The flip side is that it has the potential to strengthen dependency, it can get expensive if your insurance has caps and you have to guard against making therapy your life, instead of having a life that includes therapy.
I'm curious why you try to avoid sessions. I have a push/pull about going. I know it will be emotional and painful but I also want to go. But it sounds like you totally don't want to go. This doesn't sound helpful.
Posted by daisym on July 22, 2004, at 12:04:04
In reply to Re: T questions-compassion, posted by gardenergirl on July 21, 2004, at 23:15:32
Thanks GG. Me too!
Though I will say that he is really making me work hard the past few weeks. I opened my mouth to say something and then thought better of it and closed it. His response was, "nope, now you have to say it. You know you can't get away with that in here!"
pushy, pushy! :)
Posted by Susan47 on July 22, 2004, at 17:23:01
In reply to frequency » Susan47, posted by daisym on July 22, 2004, at 12:00:54
Hi,
It was so nice to hear from you. Thank you for your input.
I can't see my T anymore at all, and when I was seeing him more frequently (which I call once every two weeks) the dependency I was feeling was really horrible. I felt like I lived to see the man. To me, it was surrealistic, because I didn't really even know this person, I felt the relationship was completely one-sided, he was my employee yet I was having these *feelings* for him, and the feelings were what kept me coming back.
I just didn't feel right about it. I saw briefly today, and as I heard myself say "I need to take these feelings I have for *you* and transfer them onto a man who *is* available is my *real* life," I felt release.
Perhaps there will never be a *real* man whom I feel about, the same way I felt about my T. Then again, he wasn't real either, he was a gorgeous idealization, and it was so much *fun* at the time. But for me, the pain of dependency just wasn't worth it.
I love this Board!
Posted by Susan47 on July 22, 2004, at 17:26:49
In reply to For Daisym, posted by Susan47 on July 22, 2004, at 17:23:01
...
Posted by starlight on July 22, 2004, at 18:23:25
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by Susan47 on July 20, 2004, at 20:26:32
Susan47,
Trust your instincts, trust your instincts! I would find someone who you connect better with. It seems like you have good insights to what his personality is like and don't like his disconnected approach. Does it make you feel like he's judging you?
starlight
Posted by Susan47 on July 23, 2004, at 15:53:53
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by starlight on July 22, 2004, at 18:23:25
> Susan47,
> Trust your instincts, trust your instincts! I would find someone who you connect better with. It seems like you have good insights to what his personality is like and don't like his disconnected approach. Does it make you feel like he's judging you?
> starlightThe problem is I feel like we connected too well. I saw stuff on his face at the beginning which was (in my mind) suggestive of being attracted to me, and also he emoted so much (read: expressions on his face), and I'm the kind of person who absolutely reads way too much into everything anyway.
The upshot of it all is that from the beginning I was attracted to him anyway; I didn't need any encouragement, and when I felt he was giving it to me, I *so* pushed him away. If he's disconnected, it's because I asked him to be that way. Is that not weird?
This is probably an issue I need to deal with.
Posted by starlight on July 23, 2004, at 18:02:32
In reply to Starlight, posted by Susan47 on July 23, 2004, at 15:53:53
I don't think it's wierd, I guess by connected I mean that maybe you would do better with someone with whom you didn't go through all of this with. Does it keep you from working through the things you might really need to work on? Kind of like the minds way of distracting from the real point of you being there to start with?
Have you thought of seeing a woman instead?
starlight
Posted by Susan47 on July 23, 2004, at 20:01:09
In reply to Re: Starlight, posted by starlight on July 23, 2004, at 18:02:32
It's weird because a woman couldn't have gotten me this far in therapy. She wouldn't have triggered the same emotions and reactions that cause this abberant behaviour (stemming from...guess who?...Daddy!!!)
I called up his machine today again and cried into it. What the hell is the matter with me?
Posted by DaisyM on July 23, 2004, at 21:59:28
In reply to Weird?, posted by Susan47 on July 23, 2004, at 20:01:09
I'm sorry you are having such a hard time. If you go back and read my posts you will see that my relationship with my Therapist has been a constant struggle against attaching to him. It isn't sexual in anyway. He makes the younger parts of me feel safe and cared for. They trust him. The adult me feels like an idiot half the time for having these intense feelings.
Many people believe distance is better. That a "dependency" will develop. I torture myself with reading articles about this, and usually it ends up causing me to try to flee the therapy relationship. Or cut down.
My therapist believes so strongly in inter-dependence. He WANTS me to need him. And to reach out with this need. We talk about it in terms of development all the time. He thinks if I can "practice" needing him, I can get more balanced in my other relationships, where people need me.
I don't know if you feelings are romantic. But think about what this intense need is...do you NEED to be taken care of? Are you hoping he will break down your psychic door and rescue the emotional part you have stashed back there? Sometimes the push/pull is a test to see if we are important enough for them to chase. But the intensity tells me you have unfinished business.
Posted by rs on July 24, 2004, at 9:25:10
In reply to Re: Weird? » Susan47, posted by DaisyM on July 23, 2004, at 21:59:28
hi Daisy. Sorry to just jump in but may I say I need to be taken care of in many small ways. Thanks for just listening to this. The need is so strong that it hurts. Never taken care of and hurt much today. Hope all is well with you. You have a great T. He cares and let him take care of the little one.
Posted by daisym on July 25, 2004, at 23:09:06
In reply to Re: Weird?, posted by rs on July 24, 2004, at 9:25:10
Sorry I missed this yesterday, rs. Are you doing any better today? It does really hurt when you aren't taken care of, it makes me sad for all that you've missed. (me too).
What are you doing to soothe yourself? I just chatted with Fallsfall about this. I'm finding it difficult to move away from the anxiety and figure out ways to make myself feel better. Of course my therapist says to call him, via the experiment, but I have no idea what I want him to do for me.
I hope you had a much better day today and tomorrow is even better!
Hugs from me
Daisy
Posted by rs on July 27, 2004, at 6:01:57
In reply to Re: Weird? » rs, posted by daisym on July 25, 2004, at 23:09:06
Hi Daisy. Oh yes must say I have really been thinking and feeling the same thing about therapy. What do I want him to do. Honestly right now feels like there is nothing he can do. Sessions are so so hard. Never thought that so many tears are there. Friday left there so confused in tears and not sure where or what to do. He looks at me and says "Sorry this is so hard for you." You know right now the words do not mean a thing. I am really not sure if I want to even continue therapy. Will admit have such a hard time with trust etc. So many different feelings and thoughts that mine are all messed up. Feeling and remembering are painful but also lonely sometimes in a way. I am very lonely with this is some ways and that hurts. Any little thing that T says or does forget it if taken in the wrong way. He is very good but lately I really wonder if he can deal with this or really has enough experience. Not sure. I know will not find a more understanding therapist but getting confused aboout the point of experience. Make any sense to you? Hope all is well. Enjoy reading your posts. Falls has been so much help for me and she is a wonderful person.
Posted by fallsfall on July 27, 2004, at 7:13:21
In reply to Re: Weird?, posted by rs on July 27, 2004, at 6:01:57
(((((((rs)))))))
Posted by gardenergirl on July 27, 2004, at 8:33:59
In reply to Re: Weird?, posted by rs on July 27, 2004, at 6:01:57
rs,
I'm sorry this is so hard for you. I know I have left therapy at times and continued to cry. I would imagine that having intense sessions like that every week would be so exhausting. I hope you have something in your life that helps you to relax and recharge. And I agree, falls is fabulous!Take care dear.
gg
Posted by rs on July 27, 2004, at 19:33:23
In reply to Re: Weird? » rs, posted by fallsfall on July 27, 2004, at 7:13:21
Thanks falls, daisy and gardenergil. I appreciate it much. Hope spelled the name correctly.
Posted by rs on July 27, 2004, at 19:34:09
In reply to Re: Weird? » rs, posted by gardenergirl on July 27, 2004, at 8:33:59
Just posted and spelled your name wrong. Typing error I think. Sorry.
This is the end of the thread.
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