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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on July 15, 2004, at 16:49:39
In reply to T questions, posted by Asya on July 15, 2004, at 16:04:36
I can only give you my experiences...
My therapist self discloses more than many, but not a tremendous amount. I don't see any reason to get angry about it unless she starts to self disclose for *her* welfare rather than yours, to unburden herself or to do the sort of reciprocal helping we do with friends. And if she's taking up too much of your session time, or telling a bit more than you want to know about herself, you can always tell her politely and without anger. If none of those things are true, she's probably well within the therapeutic range of self disclosure.
If medications work well for you, you will be in less distress and may feel less need for therapy. However, you will also be in a better position to work on deep seated issues because the medication will provide a safety net so that therapy doesn't become too upsetting. It's up to *you* how you wish to combine medications and therapy.
My therapist would never ever ever ever ever ever call me to see how I am doing no matter what. And I do mean no matter what. If he thought I was in imminent danger, he might have me committed, but he would consider that calling to check on me would be giving me unrealistic expectations about the limits of our relationship. But other therapists have other guidelines. The important thing is that if you want to hear from her, call her and tell her so. If you can't manage to see her in person, yet would like the support of her voice, ask her if she would be willing to do phone checkins (initiated by you) and discuss a fee schedule.
At least this would be what works best for my therapist. He's really big on self determination and my being responsible for my own therapy etc. etc.
Posted by shortelise on July 15, 2004, at 19:42:57
In reply to T questions, posted by Asya on July 15, 2004, at 16:04:36
My T is reluctant to talk about himself. He says it's my time, and that it's not time to talk about him. That said, he does sometimes tell about moments in his life that show he can empathize with what's going on with me.
My T has called me after really hard sessions to find out how I am. He has never called before a difficult event to make sure I'm ok. He wouldn't unless I asked him to. If I asked, I think he would.
I went on meds a few years ago. It made therapy easier, but I still had to do the work.
Hope this helps.
Shorte
Posted by rs on July 15, 2004, at 20:43:50
In reply to T questions, posted by Asya on July 15, 2004, at 16:04:36
Yes my T has shared some things with me. The reason I feel is to build trust. My old T I knew nothing about. And saw him for many years.
My T has never called me to see how I was doing. I leave there every session lately just crying and he has never called to follow up. I think if something was coming up and I asked if he could call me he might. Not sure on that.
I am not on meds but have heard that both can be very good. Good luck in therapy.
Posted by mair on July 15, 2004, at 22:22:32
In reply to T questions, posted by Asya on July 15, 2004, at 16:04:36
As with others, my T self-discloses sometimes, but not too much. I think she does it when she thinks it will strengthen our connection.
I can't really see my current T calling me, but my last one did quite a bit at different times. I think he started doing it some because I was very isolated at the time and he figured out I was very unlikely to reach out to him for help. After i stopped seeing him on a regular basis, but still got meds from him, he'd call me periodically just to check in and see if I needed more prescriptions - and he did call me up once after a particularly awful session. But I really think he was very unique in this respect - and I got the impression that other Ts in the area didn't particularly approve - maybe they thought it made them look uncaring.
My T claims that a combination of drugs and therapy is the most effective treatment, not just one or the other. It's easier to work on therapy issues when you're emotionally stable (hence the drugs) but the drugs are unlikely to help you deal with some of the issues that probably triggered your illness to begin with (hence the therapy). The trick is to stick with therapy when you are feeling better. Although supposedly you can work better in therapy when you're not so depressed, I have a hard time feeling the same level of commitment to it when I'm on a more even keel.
mair
Posted by lucy stone on July 15, 2004, at 23:38:02
In reply to Re: T questions » Asya, posted by mair on July 15, 2004, at 22:22:32
My T never self discloses. He says he will answer anything I ask and so far has done so but he never, and I mean never, volunteers information. He would never, ever, call to see how I am doing and would never initiate a call before a big event. He says that he trusts me to call him if I need him and he always returns calls promptly. I was on medication for the first year I saw I but no longer am. Sometimes when I am going through an especially hard time we talk about me going back on but so far I have not.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on July 16, 2004, at 8:37:51
In reply to T questions, posted by Asya on July 15, 2004, at 16:04:36
My T self-discloses to a point, although there have been a few times where I innocently asked a couple questions about his childhood and he refused to answer. So I just hang onto the bits he tells me and know better now than to actually ASK anything about him.
And I am positive he would never call me before a stressful event. HE's big on me taking responsibility for my own emotions, etc etc.
When I do call him though and want him to call back, he calls back very promptly. I have only called him once (in the year I have seen him)in semi-crisis and he called back when he could and talked me thru it. I did feel guilty about this though and have never done it since.
Posted by Poet on July 16, 2004, at 15:46:14
In reply to T questions, posted by Asya on July 15, 2004, at 16:04:36
Hi Asya,
1. My T shares personal things, I think, if she thinks I can relate to it. Like you, I like a glimpse of her world, too.
2. A few months ago I was very close to suicide and she was calling me between sessions to make sure I was staying safe. She tells me it's okay to call her whenever I need her, maybe you could ask your T if you can call her to talk if things get rough in August?
3. I think meds only is up to the individual. It doesn't do it for me. I've been on meds for 1 1/2 years and in therapy for two, so for me I definitely still need therapy.
Hope I helped.
Poet
Posted by Joslynn on July 18, 2004, at 20:06:41
In reply to T questions, posted by Asya on July 15, 2004, at 16:04:36
1.) My therp seldom discloses, unless it is to make a point related from her life that relates to mine I know she is divorced, but I don't know why. She got divroced before she became a therapist. (Oooh I do wonder why, what went wrong, did she learn from it, will this affect her advice to me, but Idon't ask.)
My pdoc/therapist, on the other hand, does disclose more frequently. Sometimes it helps. Other times, I don't like it, and I am trying to get better about gently letting him know it's not productive for me. Also he has this way of pontificating about relationsips in general in a somewhat cynical way and I am not sure if he is talking about himself or people in general? For example, I will talk about fears of never getting married, and he will talk about how marriage is not always what it's cracked up to be anyway. He will say stuff like, "often you realize your spouse has their own issues or serious disagreements but you realize these things when you are already married, when it's too late" or "even when you are married, that doesn't mean you don't have feelings for other people sometimes" and I always wonder, is he talking about himself, other clients, people in general, what? Who is this "you" person? HIM?! I don't want to know that.
I am just going to ask him next time. He is usually pretty open about accepting feedback and even criticism. I just don't want to feel like he is referencing his own marital problems in some oblique way, I mean, what I am supposed to do about that? Or am I being paranoid, just looking for a reason to know him off his pedastol? Or is the issue that my own parents used to complain about each other to me and it is a transference, where I am afraid of getting caught in the "confessor" role again when really the person is just trying to help me feel better about being single?
2.)Neither of them would call me to check up on me unless I requested it.
3.) I think combining therapy with meds is the recommended model, it doesn't have to be either/or.
well those are my answers.
Posted by Joslynn on July 18, 2004, at 20:26:04
In reply to Re: T questions, posted by Joslynn on July 18, 2004, at 20:06:41
Posted by Susan47 on July 20, 2004, at 17:38:45
In reply to oops, I meant confessEE role (nm), posted by Joslynn on July 18, 2004, at 20:26:04
I think I know what you mean about your therapist dislosing stuff. Mine used to say stuff like "are you surprised that a lot of people stay together for the sake of the children?" and other stuff that sometimes I really wonder if he was talking about himself, and wanting me to take care of him.
Hmh.
Also, his face used to reflect a response to everything I said, Sometimes, I know, it was an automatic response you'd give to a client to show sympathy or understanding ... but many times it seemed to be a genuine personal reaction to something I said about myself. I hated that, and called him on it over and over again until now, his face is like stone. Last session he blushed for about thirty seconds and then got ahold of himself. I'd just given him a conclusion I'd come to about him.
The last few times I've seen him, I haven't been able to look at his face when I say anything really important. I always look at the wall or the ceiling. I don't want to know what he's reacting to. \
Anybody know what that's about?
Posted by pegasus on July 20, 2004, at 18:10:24
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by Susan47 on July 20, 2004, at 17:38:45
So, now I really want to know what conclusion you had come to about him that made him blush! Would you consider sharing?
pegasus
Posted by Susan47 on July 20, 2004, at 20:26:32
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn » Susan47, posted by pegasus on July 20, 2004, at 18:10:24
Absolutely, if you promise to give me your input.
:)
Here goes. I told him I think he's the type of man who gets turned off very easily, which can be difficult when you're giving someone therapy, because respect is a big issue, and he has to respect all his clients. I told him I think he struggles with that. He went quite red for a few seconds then I could see him struggling to control himself, and when I finished speaking he slightly nodded his head.
I really don't like his noncommital responses. I told him there's a problem with therapy; usually I'm the only one being honest.
I really do have a lot of trouble with that one. It's his job to be supportive and accepting, right? I'm never dealing with a real person!!
Posted by pegasus on July 21, 2004, at 10:56:36
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by Susan47 on July 20, 2004, at 20:26:32
Oh my, you are brave. So, you're interpreting his blushing and struggling as confirmation of your conclusions? I'm thinking maybe it could also have been that he was angry and defensive - feeling unjustly accused. But I don't know him as well as you, and you're probably right about your conclusions.
So, to be brutally honest with my reaction:
You know, on the honesty issue, I think a really good therapist can *be* honest when they are supportive and accepting. It's part of the training to learn how to accept and support everyone. My old therapist once mentioned how in his training they would struggle with how to feel compassion toward difficult people, and one instruction was to reduce the client's age in their imagination until they could see them as innocent. He said sometimes they would have to reduce the person to an infant to get back in touch with that compassion. I would worry that anyone who really still struggles with that - to the point where their clients can see it - would have a hard time being an effective therapist.
On the other hand, it does sound like you've asked him to try to put on a carefully arranged mask for you. You didn't like it when he was showing all of his honest reactions, right? And then in this scenario, you gave him some pretty big challenges to maintaining that mask by making a rather uncomplimentary - and probably right on target - interpretation about him. So it sounds like you're feeling ambivalent about the honest reaction versus stone faced thing. Or maybe just about the way *he* uses both of them. Am I way off target there? I'm just spinning a long story from the short explanations that you've given, so I could be making it all up.
pegasus
Posted by Susan47 on July 21, 2004, at 16:24:52
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by pegasus on July 21, 2004, at 10:56:36
I'm going to give you short responses because I think better that way. I probably don't know T as well as I like to think... I don't, as I do most of the talking. Yes, he may well have been angry I came to the wrong conclusion and maybe I unjustly accused him, but to be honest, I'm so pugnacious in my desire to be taken seriously, that to me, anger is better than nothing? At least he'll have SOME emotion when he looks back at the session!!!
Posted by Susan47 on July 21, 2004, at 16:28:51
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by pegasus on July 21, 2004, at 10:56:36
Pegasus,
I LOVE your interpretation! Thank you so much for giving me your input, it helps a lot.
I can see the need to reduce some people to infants in order to feel compassion towards them. I suspect we all could use a bit of that training....and I have to admit, I've come into his office unexpectedly twice now, (trying to desensitise myself) and he's sitting hunched over his desk thinking furiously. I gather he thinks rather a lot.
Posted by daisym on July 21, 2004, at 19:48:21
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by pegasus on July 21, 2004, at 10:56:36
I worry a lot that I'm a difficult client. "What must you think" is an oft-uttered line. But I've never doubted his compassion or commitment to me.
I asked him once if he had ever had a child-abuser as a client. He thought about it a long time before he answered me and wanted to know why I wanted to know. I said I wondered how he could treat someone with compassion, knowing the pain we were dealing with, the pain they caused someone like me. He said he also wondered if under my question was another question, which is "can they get help and change?" But he said he has seen and heard so much over the years that he is rarely shocked and often touched by the things people bring into therapy. He said if he doesn't feel a connection to someone early on, he doesn't usually continue to treat them. But he also said if he finds something out during treatment, he doesn't abandon them either.
I think this must present so many challenges.
I'm glad he doesn't have a mask. If I don't want to see what he is feeling, I look out the window. But sometimes I need to see my pain reflected in his eyes to make it OK for me to feel it. Does that make any sense?
But he definitely has moods. Sometimes he is really playful -- for his birthday I gave him a card about a talking frog. Some time after that, we had a session where every subject was a dead end. He said, "We need the talking frog." I said, "What would he say?" He said, "Not a very ribbiting session." LOL
Then we spent 10 minutes talking about puns.
Posted by Susan47 on July 21, 2004, at 19:57:45
In reply to Re: T questions-compassion, posted by daisym on July 21, 2004, at 19:48:21
It sounds like you have a very good relationship with your T. Do you see him very often? I'm just curious because I try to make my visits as infrequent as possible, and I think that's been a problem.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 21, 2004, at 23:15:32
In reply to Re: T questions-compassion, posted by daisym on July 21, 2004, at 19:48:21
Daisy,
I absolutely love your T. You can tell him that. I'm so glad for you!gg
Posted by daisym on July 22, 2004, at 12:00:54
In reply to For Daisym, posted by Susan47 on July 21, 2004, at 19:57:45
Susan,
I have tons of contact with my therapist. He is psycho-dynamically oriented, and believes that "our" relationship is of primary importance. When I was going once a week, we didn't get very far and I frequently had melt downs in between. But I have a very hard time trusting this attachment. When I really struggle with it, or against it, his solution ALWAYS is to have me come in more. I tend to be very strong about solving my own problems. Learning to lean on someone and allow my needs to be met is very hard. It is the core of what we are working on. Not that there aren't tons of other issues. I'm a bit of a mess, as they say. I think I'm very lucky to have found him, because he respects the other demands in my life but he reaches past those to insist that I do what is best for me, even when I can't see it.Phone contact between sessions has been a whole other struggle but again, he thinks more is better. He is very clear about his boundaries, and that it might take a few hours for him to get back to me, especially on weekends. But he insists he wants to hear from me.
I think it is hard in some cases to move forward when you have to spend part of the session reconnecting. I think there are others here who have had the experience that increasing their frequency has increased their productivity. The flip side is that it has the potential to strengthen dependency, it can get expensive if your insurance has caps and you have to guard against making therapy your life, instead of having a life that includes therapy.
I'm curious why you try to avoid sessions. I have a push/pull about going. I know it will be emotional and painful but I also want to go. But it sounds like you totally don't want to go. This doesn't sound helpful.
Posted by daisym on July 22, 2004, at 12:04:04
In reply to Re: T questions-compassion, posted by gardenergirl on July 21, 2004, at 23:15:32
Thanks GG. Me too!
Though I will say that he is really making me work hard the past few weeks. I opened my mouth to say something and then thought better of it and closed it. His response was, "nope, now you have to say it. You know you can't get away with that in here!"
pushy, pushy! :)
Posted by Susan47 on July 22, 2004, at 17:23:01
In reply to frequency » Susan47, posted by daisym on July 22, 2004, at 12:00:54
Hi,
It was so nice to hear from you. Thank you for your input.
I can't see my T anymore at all, and when I was seeing him more frequently (which I call once every two weeks) the dependency I was feeling was really horrible. I felt like I lived to see the man. To me, it was surrealistic, because I didn't really even know this person, I felt the relationship was completely one-sided, he was my employee yet I was having these *feelings* for him, and the feelings were what kept me coming back.
I just didn't feel right about it. I saw briefly today, and as I heard myself say "I need to take these feelings I have for *you* and transfer them onto a man who *is* available is my *real* life," I felt release.
Perhaps there will never be a *real* man whom I feel about, the same way I felt about my T. Then again, he wasn't real either, he was a gorgeous idealization, and it was so much *fun* at the time. But for me, the pain of dependency just wasn't worth it.
I love this Board!
Posted by Susan47 on July 22, 2004, at 17:26:49
In reply to For Daisym, posted by Susan47 on July 22, 2004, at 17:23:01
...
Posted by starlight on July 22, 2004, at 18:23:25
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by Susan47 on July 20, 2004, at 20:26:32
Susan47,
Trust your instincts, trust your instincts! I would find someone who you connect better with. It seems like you have good insights to what his personality is like and don't like his disconnected approach. Does it make you feel like he's judging you?
starlight
Posted by Susan47 on July 23, 2004, at 15:53:53
In reply to Re: T questions-Joslynn, posted by starlight on July 22, 2004, at 18:23:25
> Susan47,
> Trust your instincts, trust your instincts! I would find someone who you connect better with. It seems like you have good insights to what his personality is like and don't like his disconnected approach. Does it make you feel like he's judging you?
> starlightThe problem is I feel like we connected too well. I saw stuff on his face at the beginning which was (in my mind) suggestive of being attracted to me, and also he emoted so much (read: expressions on his face), and I'm the kind of person who absolutely reads way too much into everything anyway.
The upshot of it all is that from the beginning I was attracted to him anyway; I didn't need any encouragement, and when I felt he was giving it to me, I *so* pushed him away. If he's disconnected, it's because I asked him to be that way. Is that not weird?
This is probably an issue I need to deal with.
Posted by starlight on July 23, 2004, at 18:02:32
In reply to Starlight, posted by Susan47 on July 23, 2004, at 15:53:53
I don't think it's wierd, I guess by connected I mean that maybe you would do better with someone with whom you didn't go through all of this with. Does it keep you from working through the things you might really need to work on? Kind of like the minds way of distracting from the real point of you being there to start with?
Have you thought of seeing a woman instead?
starlight
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