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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pinkeye on June 21, 2004, at 16:35:42
I was just thinking, do Ts really care about us? I was able to go on and become better thinking that my T really cares about me, but for the past two three weeks, I am realizing that he probably doesn't care. He probably doesn't give a damn about what happens to me, whether I live or die and just pretends so because it is his job. I have been feeling very down and pretty much getting into depression again ever since I have realized that. What do you guys think?
Pinkeye
Posted by pegasus on June 21, 2004, at 17:08:34
In reply to Do Ts really care about you?, posted by pinkeye on June 21, 2004, at 16:35:42
I think it depends on the T, but I believe that in general, Ts are caring people, and care deeply about all of their clients. I suppose there are Ts out there who do it for some other reason that truly wanting to help. But I think most of them are therapists because they care about people in general, and about their specific clients in particular. I think they all have their practical limits to how much they can give each client. So maybe sometimes that comes off looking like less than 100% caring. But imagine having a job like that! You'd have to have some good boundaries, or else you'd be overwhelmed. I really, truly believe that the limits aren't in the caring. They're just in how much a therapist can give while taking care of themselves.
Why are you thinking that your T doesn't really care? Did s/he do something specific that made you think that?
pegasus
Posted by pinkeye on June 21, 2004, at 17:29:25
In reply to Re: Do Ts really care about you?, posted by pegasus on June 21, 2004, at 17:08:34
Yeah, I believe no Ts would be in their job if they didn't really care. But the question is how much? After all they also have their own lives right?
My T didn't do anything specific. In fact he is wonderful. I was just using it as a reason to get depressed I guess.
Posted by Raindancer on June 21, 2004, at 19:12:46
In reply to Re: Do Ts really care about you?, posted by pinkeye on June 21, 2004, at 17:29:25
Hello. I think that most T's care very much for their clients, but, as the others have said, they have to keep their boundaries intact and keep themselves safe, otherwise no therapy would be done and no healing could take place. A therapist's "love" is unselfish in the main, as his greatest care is for our wellbeing and our future, and to this purpose he sets himself aside in order to concentrate on our issues. I think most of us secretly wish to be the therapist's most special or favourite client, but to a good therapist we are all special in our uniqueness and the qualities we bring to the relationship.
Posted by steelmagnolia25 on June 21, 2004, at 19:49:37
In reply to Re: Do Ts really care about you? » pinkeye, posted by Raindancer on June 21, 2004, at 19:12:46
I think that the really good T's do care. It takes a person with genuine empathy and compassion to understand and advise a troubled patient. Without those qualities, I think the T is not very helpful at all. I guess the real test that discerns the good T from the bad is caring enough to be helpful, but not caring so much that personal feelings become an obstacle to true healing. In that way, it might indeed be hard to find a T that can strike the right balance.
As for your post, I hope that you're starting to feel better about your T. But if the feeling that he doesn't really care persists, then it may be prudent to seek someone who does. I think sometimes we stay in therapy with a bad T the same way some women stay with a bad hairdresser (!).
Posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 19:53:12
In reply to Re: Do Ts really care about you?, posted by pinkeye on June 21, 2004, at 17:29:25
I've been amazed since I started posting here recently. I find some of the comments very difficult to understand. So difficult that I may just go back to my other net interests.
Can you tell me why, if your therapist is wonderful, you are looking for reasons to get depressed? Did you really mean depressed?
I've had 3 bouts of major depression and have had 2 hospitalizations, and have never heard of any person looking for a reason to be depressed.
Could you have perhaps meant something else like________?
Thank you
Posted by lucy stone on June 21, 2004, at 19:57:05
In reply to Re: Do Ts really care about you? » pinkeye, posted by Raindancer on June 21, 2004, at 19:12:46
I think Ts do care about their patients. I don't think you can fake genuine care. I also think that Ts don't necessarily care as much or in the same way for us as we do for them. I know that I want to be my Ts favorite and most special client but it is not a secret between us. I have told him that if I won the lottery I would buy all of his time so that I could be his only and therefore most special client. Since I am doing an analysis we have to talk about it and it has been very interesting to me. He has asked me what it would mean if I was his favotie client, what would that get me and how would it make me feel. Why would I want all of his time? Why do I not like to see or think about his other clients? These are important questions I think for everyone, whether or not we discuss them with our Ts.
Posted by pinkeye on June 21, 2004, at 20:21:11
In reply to Re: Do Ts really care about you?, posted by lucy stone on June 21, 2004, at 19:57:05
Actually I agree with all of the posts. My T is a wonderful guy and I believe he is one of the best. And I do think he genuinely cares about me.
But to answer Fires, I actually am in love with him and want to be the most special client :-(. And I know it is not possible. I want him to care about me like he would care for his wife. I knew he cannot care like that, but I was still hoping for it. And I knew I would get depressed when I don't get it. That is why I said I was looking for reasons to get depressed.
Posted by Racer on June 21, 2004, at 21:40:21
In reply to Do Ts really care about you?, posted by pinkeye on June 21, 2004, at 16:35:42
Sorry, I don't have it in me to read the other responses right now, but I'll give you a slightly different perspective:
I've taught a variety of subjects at various times in the past decade. I was paid for my time, and paid for my efforts. You know what? I did care about my students -- as individuals, and their achievements thrilled me almost as much as the students. I cared about my students, and not the time on the clock, or the (pitiful) amount of my paycheck.
Of course, I am not a therapist, but I suspect that something very similar happens with them. I suspect that they do care about us, that they really do want the best for us -- and FOR US, not for the feather they can stick in their own hats for having "fixed" us.
That's only one person's opinion, but I truly hope it helps you find some light in your current darkness.
Posted by shadows721 on June 21, 2004, at 21:49:28
In reply to Do Ts really care about you?, posted by pinkeye on June 21, 2004, at 16:35:42
I think in general they do care about their clients. I also think it is individual too. I think some clients are more bonded to therapists than other and vise versa.
Posted by LG04 on June 22, 2004, at 8:20:37
In reply to Re: Do Ts really care about you?, posted by shadows721 on June 21, 2004, at 21:49:28
I have a couple of thoughts...
one is that I am a preschool teacher and I often have to think about how much I love those kids in order to understand how my therapist cares about me. Meaning, I do get paid for my job (which I need obviously to have a home and pay bills), but I don't get paid for how much I love and care about them. Meaning, I don't share with them my most intimate feelings or struggles in life or if I'm having a terrible day, though they cry to me and need me. I don't need them at all in the same way. I am there for them, not the other way around. I take care of them the whole day, they don't take care of me.
BUT they are SO IMPORTANT to me and give me so much and I care so very deeply for them and want to do everything I can do be there for them. I love them SO MUCH. I am crazy about them. They make me laugh and cry and I get mad and I get impatient and I have very real relationships with them. I look forward to seeing them and being with them and sometimes I miss them when I'm not with them. At the same time, I am very drained after work and ready for down time and to be alone or watch TV or be with friends or whatever. But I think about them a lot and work hard to be a good teacher and a safe person for them. If something happened to one of them, I would be devestated.
This often helps me a lot when I get insecure about my therapist's feelings towards me. I think it's very similar.
The second thing is that I know that I am my therapist's "most special" client. We have a very intense and very close relationship - a soul connection - and we've talked about it because it's there and to pretend it isn't would be confusing and not healthy. I know she spends more time thinking about me and talking with me (on the phone and in sessions) than she does with other clients. Much of the time I have been with her, I have been planning to leave and move overseas and many times we spoke about figuring out what kind of relationship we'd have when I left, that we would stay in touch. Etc.
The thing is, though sometimes it does feel good and give me a feeling of security with her, it doesn't always help. Sometimes I still think she doesn't care about me. Sometimes I long to be the only person in her life (i.e. not just the most special client but her most special person, her ONLY person), that she wouldn't have a husband and kids and best friends and parents and siblings and everyone else. I get very jealous of her husband of whom I know nothing about, that they share a life together and get to be partners in life and that they've been married so long, etc. In other words, IT'S NOT ENOUGH to be her favorite client. NOTHING IS ENOUGH. Sometimes I want more and I want it all. I want her to be all mine. Like a perfect, and I mean perfect, mother/friend/partner/everything else for all of my inner and outer parts, all of my needs.
So I'm not sure that actually being your therapist's favorite client is an answer to what's really going on. It doesn't make me whole and it doesn't answer all my needs or end my neediness and longings and all of those things or even take care of my insecurities regarding her. I still need to ask her often, "do you still care about me?"
Sometimes, once in a while, it's even confusing and I don't want to be special to her. It can feel very scary. (being special to my dad meant he sexually abused me...)
I've had several other therapists with whom this wasn't the case. My relationships with them weren't nearly as emotionally charged. Sometimes I wish for those other relationships. In most ways it was easier (not as intimate). But then, I was always obsessed/dependent upon some other person in my life which always created deep pain in me and I would spend hours talking about this person with my therapist. So I guess I'd rather have it be with my therapist where at least we can talk about it and I can work on it with her.
Anyway this has been my experience. Being special is nice but it doesn't in any way fill the emptiness inside or the pain I feel inside. Our relationship is still very limited, as are all relationships (even marital relationships, so I've heard), and that's what creates the pain for me.
LG
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 8:35:00
In reply to Do Ts really care about you?, posted by pinkeye on June 21, 2004, at 16:35:42
but more than we fear.
Posted by TofuEmmy on June 22, 2004, at 8:54:29
In reply to Probably not as much as we'd like,, posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 8:35:00
Posted by gardenergirl on June 22, 2004, at 12:00:25
In reply to Probably not as much as we'd like,, posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 8:35:00
For pretty much all of my clients. Except the ones that never come back after one or two visits. Then I care and make follow up phone calls and send letters. I eventually stop caring as I realize they aren't coming back.
But I do wonder how they are doing once terminated or transferred. It's kind of hard knowing you aren't likely to find out. So I just hope for the best for them.
That's pretty much my insight. I do wonder about my own, though. I don't think we can help wondering.
gg
Posted by pinkeye on June 22, 2004, at 12:01:37
In reply to Probably not as much as we'd like,, posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 8:35:00
Thank you guys. You have made my day. I feel very healthy now. Actually I feel I will be able to go on for the rest of my life without ever contacting him. (He is my ex therapist btw).
I really liked all the views.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 22, 2004, at 12:59:08
In reply to I care, I really really care!, posted by gardenergirl on June 22, 2004, at 12:00:25
GG,
Do you enjoy hearing from former clients? Would you enjoy, say, getting something from them in the mail once in awhile like an update or an article they had published or something? I can't fathom cutting off contact with my T when we are finished. Our relationship has been one of the most important ones in my life and I would find it really hard to just stop communicating. But then I don't want to look like a stalker either!
Also, do you remember all of you former clients? This is something else I think about all the time. I will always remember my T, but how likely will he remember me in say 2 years? And then I sort of beat myself up over the fact that it is somehow important to me that he remembers me.
What are your experiences with this?
Posted by pinkeye on June 22, 2004, at 15:11:36
In reply to Re: Do Ts really care about you?, posted by LG04 on June 22, 2004, at 8:20:37
Wow, this post makes a lot of sense to me.
Maybe how much ever someone cares about you, if we have emptiness inside ourselves, that won't be filled up at all. Maybe the answer is to fill ourselves with our own self love.
> I have a couple of thoughts...
>
> one is that I am a preschool teacher and I often have to think about how much I love those kids in order to understand how my therapist cares about me. Meaning, I do get paid for my job (which I need obviously to have a home and pay bills), but I don't get paid for how much I love and care about them. Meaning, I don't share with them my most intimate feelings or struggles in life or if I'm having a terrible day, though they cry to me and need me. I don't need them at all in the same way. I am there for them, not the other way around. I take care of them the whole day, they don't take care of me.
>
> BUT they are SO IMPORTANT to me and give me so much and I care so very deeply for them and want to do everything I can do be there for them. I love them SO MUCH. I am crazy about them. They make me laugh and cry and I get mad and I get impatient and I have very real relationships with them. I look forward to seeing them and being with them and sometimes I miss them when I'm not with them. At the same time, I am very drained after work and ready for down time and to be alone or watch TV or be with friends or whatever. But I think about them a lot and work hard to be a good teacher and a safe person for them. If something happened to one of them, I would be devestated.
>
> This often helps me a lot when I get insecure about my therapist's feelings towards me. I think it's very similar.
>
> The second thing is that I know that I am my therapist's "most special" client. We have a very intense and very close relationship - a soul connection - and we've talked about it because it's there and to pretend it isn't would be confusing and not healthy. I know she spends more time thinking about me and talking with me (on the phone and in sessions) than she does with other clients. Much of the time I have been with her, I have been planning to leave and move overseas and many times we spoke about figuring out what kind of relationship we'd have when I left, that we would stay in touch. Etc.
>
> The thing is, though sometimes it does feel good and give me a feeling of security with her, it doesn't always help. Sometimes I still think she doesn't care about me. Sometimes I long to be the only person in her life (i.e. not just the most special client but her most special person, her ONLY person), that she wouldn't have a husband and kids and best friends and parents and siblings and everyone else. I get very jealous of her husband of whom I know nothing about, that they share a life together and get to be partners in life and that they've been married so long, etc. In other words, IT'S NOT ENOUGH to be her favorite client. NOTHING IS ENOUGH. Sometimes I want more and I want it all. I want her to be all mine. Like a perfect, and I mean perfect, mother/friend/partner/everything else for all of my inner and outer parts, all of my needs.
>
> So I'm not sure that actually being your therapist's favorite client is an answer to what's really going on. It doesn't make me whole and it doesn't answer all my needs or end my neediness and longings and all of those things or even take care of my insecurities regarding her. I still need to ask her often, "do you still care about me?"
>
> Sometimes, once in a while, it's even confusing and I don't want to be special to her. It can feel very scary. (being special to my dad meant he sexually abused me...)
>
> I've had several other therapists with whom this wasn't the case. My relationships with them weren't nearly as emotionally charged. Sometimes I wish for those other relationships. In most ways it was easier (not as intimate). But then, I was always obsessed/dependent upon some other person in my life which always created deep pain in me and I would spend hours talking about this person with my therapist. So I guess I'd rather have it be with my therapist where at least we can talk about it and I can work on it with her.
>
> Anyway this has been my experience. Being special is nice but it doesn't in any way fill the emptiness inside or the pain I feel inside. Our relationship is still very limited, as are all relationships (even marital relationships, so I've heard), and that's what creates the pain for me.
>
> LG
Posted by gardenergirl on June 22, 2004, at 16:17:34
In reply to Re: I care, I really really care! » gardenergirl, posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 22, 2004, at 12:59:08
I want to say I remember all of my former clients. I don't have nearly as many as an experienced T. I don't remember most of the ones I saw while doing my first practicum in a rehab center, because I mostly saw them once and I was so green and nervous it was hard to be "present" with them. But I think I remember all of the last two years. As long as I saw them more than once. Some, of course, I feel more fondness for than others. And I would love to hear occasionally from former clients, I think. But it would mean they tracked me down (unless they sent to center and center forwarded it to me). That might feel weird to me, I'm not sure. Also, there is the issue of whether it would be ethical to respond. We are encouraged to handle this with clients by telling them that we would enjoy hearing from them, but we likely would be unable to respond.
I did get a note from a client I had terminated with about six weeks before while still at the center. I really enjoyed getting this, and I kept it and put a copy in the chart.
Does this help? Basically, my thoughts are not set on this, so it's something I need to experience more and think more about.
gg
Posted by pegasus on June 22, 2004, at 16:47:35
In reply to contact with former clients » Miss Honeychurch, posted by gardenergirl on June 22, 2004, at 16:17:34
I have trouble with this idea that it might be unethical for a T to respond to their ex-client. I know I've heard it before in my own program as well, but it just doesn't ring true for me. Unethical, in my book, is leaving someone hanging when you have previously encouraged them to open up and attach to you. Talk about confusing mixed messages.
Maybe the trick is that it depends on the context. My old T replies to my emails, and thank god he does. It helps me know that he still cares, and that all of that trusting and caring wasn't just a convenience for the therapy in that moment. I think that's a big lesson that I needed to learn. And if he hadn't ever replied, then I'd feel very much more afraid to be trying therapy again now.
But that was a context where *he* left *me*, without a lot of lead time, and for his own personal reasons. So I had no say in how or when my therapy with him ended. And I was nowhere near ready to terminate. I think he's stayed in touch because he doesn't want me to feel abandoned by him.
But he also says that sometimes he might forget to reply, because he's busy and not a good email correspondent. And it's true that often he doesn't write back, or writes back weeks later. Which hurts a little, but is generally fine with me. It keeps me from writing too often (since I know he won't reply often). And it allows him to reply only when he wants to or has time. So it relieves the potentially burdensome nature of an ongoing correspondence from both of us somewhat.
Just had to throw that out there. I think I will invite ex-clients to contact me in some cases, but let them know that I don't have lots of time to devote to a correspondence. It seems like a good compromise to me.
pegasus
Posted by daisym on June 22, 2004, at 18:17:10
In reply to Re: Do Ts really care about you? » pinkeye, posted by Raindancer on June 21, 2004, at 19:12:46
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 22, 2004, at 18:24:16
In reply to contact with former clients » Miss Honeychurch, posted by gardenergirl on June 22, 2004, at 16:17:34
I would never expect a reply from my T. I suppose one of my motivations for dropping him a line every now and then would be for him to remember me.
He's been in practice over 20 years. I can't imagine he remembers every one.
I don't know why it hurts me so much to think that in all probability I may be forgotten.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 22, 2004, at 18:31:00
In reply to Re: contact with former clients » gardenergirl, posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 22, 2004, at 18:24:16
I think it is perfectly normal to wish your T remembered you and to feel hurt that he may not. You invested a huge part of your self in therapy. Of course that is significant and important. I think it is to T's too. I feel like I'm privileged to receive that kind of personal, intimate opening up--that it is like a gift. But considering that this gift occurs within a person's profession, the sheer quantity of it over 20 years may interfere with T's remembering everything. I think that's just a reality of it.
But for whatever reason a T may not remember, and maybe they remember a lot, it still hurts to think your gift was forgotten.
gg
Posted by rs on June 22, 2004, at 19:35:13
In reply to Re: I care, I really really care! » gardenergirl, posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 22, 2004, at 12:59:08
Hope its ok to share. But my old T moved a few years ago. Finally called him for the first time about 2 months ago. He said of course he remembers me and always will. Not sure due to being his first DID client but that does not matter. He told me he thinks about me and still cares and will never stop caring. So I think that therapist do not forget about some of their clients. After all theese years I still miss him much. But have a wonderful one now and better in many ways. But still miss him
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 20:33:45
In reply to Re: contact with former clients » gardenergirl, posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 22, 2004, at 18:24:16
My therapist forgetting me isn't one of them. He might wish he could forget me, but he won't.
Of course, I ain't leaving until he does, so he won't get a chance. And if he leaves before me, I guarantee he'll never forget me.
Posted by Aphrodite on June 23, 2004, at 7:02:34
In reply to Re: Of all the things I worry about, posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 20:33:45
This is the end of the thread.
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