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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by gardenergirl on April 9, 2004, at 8:23:31
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » shadows721, posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 4:25:23
I just wanted to say I am learning a lot from reading this thread, and I thank all of your for opening up about it. It's very brave, IMO.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 9, 2004, at 8:31:27
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » Miss Honeychurch, posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 1:03:09
tiny, sorry for the bombardment of questions. I have one more and then I'll stop!
You mentioned that you are never 100% tinydancer, that you can't really pinpoint a core personality, that perhaps td is in the mix, but pretty much as puzzle pieces. So for example, are you say usually 75% td and 25% an alter personality?
I am also curious how this affects your marriage. I remember you saying that your husband knew all about your dx. I'm curious to know how he deals with your alters when they show up in full force?
Posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 9:27:00
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 9, 2004, at 8:31:27
I don't mind answering the questions. I think its good to get it out in the open and talk about what it really is and isn't. You can ask me whatever you would like!
Miss H asked:
>So for example, are you say usually 75% td and 25% an alter personality?
It can go both ways. Sometimes I can be 100% an alter personality for periods of time. But on a general day to day basis, I would say that your percentages are fairly on target, obviously give or take a bit.
> I am also curious how this affects your marriage. I remember you saying that your husband knew all about your dx. I'm curious to know how he deals with your alters when they show up in full force?
We don't have an easy marriage by any means. It's very hard and he isn't a saint who magically understands what I'm going through. It's very painful for him, especially if I must be hospitalized. Mostly he gives me the space and room I need, which is a lot. He tries to be as patient as he can but it can run out fast, needless to say. There is a lot he doesn't understand, and the enormity of the abuse I've been through is hard for him to grasp. He isn't a very communicative type. He doesn't know a lot about who's who when it comes to my alters (I guess its too much to digest) so he usually just deals with me in a cautious way. He is usual pretty cued in to what is happening with me and my moods and acts accordingly. But there haven't been any dramatic switching or anything-it usually tends to be a lot less low key than what people might have seen on television. But he's pretty aware of it after the years we've been together.
Posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 9:28:19
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by gardenergirl on April 9, 2004, at 8:23:31
> I just wanted to say I am learning a lot from reading this thread, and I thank all of your for opening up about it. It's very brave, IMO.
>
> Take care,
> ggThanks gg. I think so too! I am really glad to have an open forum about this disorder because there is so much misinformation out there. It is hard to talk about but everyone here has been very encouraging and understanding.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 9, 2004, at 9:38:22
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » Miss Honeychurch, posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 9:27:00
Does your child understand what is going on with you?
Has your T met all of your alters? Is there a possibility that as time goes on that new alters are created and old ones can go away? Or is everything pretty much fixed?
Posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 10:53:14
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » tinydancer, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 9, 2004, at 9:38:22
> Does your child understand what is going on with you?
Never underestimate a child's intelligence, I say. However, he is only 7 and as such he isn't really aware of a lot, if at all. We are very close and talk openly about feelings and I try to create an open environment for him so that he doesn't feel afraid to ask about anything. He is the most important thing of all to me, so I do whatever I can to put him first. Generally speaking I think he may notice differences in me from other mothers but I don't think its that pronounced yet.
> Has your T met all of your alters? Is there a possibility that as time goes on that new alters are created and old ones can go away? Or is everything pretty much fixed?My T has met the majority of them, yes. As time goes on I imagine new alters can appear and old ones could go away, but I haven't really experienced any of them disappearing, just new ones appearing, although that too is extremely rare, its not like new ones are popping up every day or even every year.
Posted by Dinah on April 9, 2004, at 20:34:26
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by shadows721 on April 9, 2004, at 2:34:56
I too find that the stigma is incredible. And I find myself ashamed of what is probably DD-NOS, not DID, though I've never been formally diagnosed. I've been informally diagnosed, I suppose, by my therapist. No amnesia, complete co-consciousness.
I don't tell *anyone*, and am relatively ashamed to admit it here. My therapist knows, my pdoc doesn't, the EMDR therapist had to (but really didn't get it *at all* which was ok, she didn't need to), my husband and family don't know. If they did, they'd likely think I was nuts, and I'm not. People just don't understand. They really don't. I'm afraid my husband would be afraid of leaving me alone with my son. While the truth is that it's no big deal. Both my ego states have posted here, and I doubt anyone could tell the difference. Both my ego states have spoken and interacted with my family and acquaintances and no one but my therapist can tell the difference. There are no different names or different lives. It's really just not a big deal. Not for me anyway. I'm sure that if I lost time or found myself doing frightening things, it would be a way bigger deal. But I don't.
I briefly tried to be an ego state activist, but unfortunately I haven't the fortitude to be an activist. I run into a little ignorance and prejudice and I fold.
I prefer "ego state" to "alter" because the word "alter" seems to imply that there is a core and then there are alters, and that really isn't the case with me. Or if it is, I have no idea which is which.
And I suspect you're right about people wanting demand performances. And you're right that that is abusive. I am sooooo glad my therapist reacts as matter of factly as I do. He never asks to speak to some other part of me, or does anything that makes me feel like I'm anything but a perfectly normal human being.
Posted by tinydancer on April 10, 2004, at 1:13:10
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » shadows721, posted by Dinah on April 9, 2004, at 20:34:26
Wow, Dinah! You haven't told your husband. Isn't that difficult to bear alone? I definitley feel more shameful about this dx than I did when I got the BPD dx years ago. But I also have been in the "system" so many years that there is less and less of a need to conceal it from those around me, it only makes my pain and suffering larger for me to bear.
> I prefer "ego state" to "alter" because the word "alter" seems to imply that there is a core and then there are alters, and that really isn't the case with me. Or if it is, I have no idea which is which.
I noticed you used the phrase ego state before. What does that mean actually? So you don't have any alter personalities and never did, or they have all integrated after you achieved co-consciousness?
> And I suspect you're right about people wanting demand performances. And you're right that that is abusive. I am sooooo glad my therapist reacts as matter of factly as I do. He never asks to speak to some other part of me, or does anything that makes me feel like I'm anything but a perfectly normal human being.What do you mean that he never asks to speak to some "other" part of you? How would he do that? I feel like my T treats me with respect and absolutely like a normal human being but he naturally wants contact with my alters too.
I hope you don't mind me asking you some questions, I was just a little confused by some of the things you said and really want to understand what you meant!
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2004, at 9:38:43
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » Dinah, posted by tinydancer on April 10, 2004, at 1:13:10
I'm sorry. I was thinking after I posted that my post was more a rant about my own frustrations than it was about support, and I apologize for that. But it's a major source of distress for me and I've battled it for some time in therapy.
> Wow, Dinah! You haven't told your husband. Isn't that difficult to bear alone? I definitley feel more shameful about this dx than I did when I got the BPD dx years ago. But I also have been in the "system" so many years that there is less and less of a need to conceal it from those around me, it only makes my pain and suffering larger for me to bear.
I only openly admit to OCD and depression at work, etc. They know about my "hypomanic reactions" to certain medications, because they had to. It was too obvious. But introducing the idea of DD-NOS would have everyone thinking Sybil and I just don't want that. For one thing, that doesn't adequately describe my condition. My therapist has had several DID clients and worked with them in an inpatient setting as well, when there used to be wards for the condition. And he says he never knows what box to put me in because I'm definitely not DID. But I'm more than the normal splitting of work self from home self from playing with my son. So that puts me in the wastebasket DD-NOS. The only book I've fond that describes (even close) my own experience is "The Myth of Sanity" by Martha Stout.
I don't find it difficult at all not to tell anyone. The fallout from telling would way outweigh any support I might get. I'm even afraid to tell anything here. Even doctors who should know better react with a bit of.... I don't know what to call it. But no where near as matter of factly as my therapist. It makes me feel bad.
>
> > I prefer "ego state" to "alter" because the word "alter" seems to imply that there is a core and then there are alters, and that really isn't the case with me. Or if it is, I have no idea which is which.
>
> I noticed you used the phrase ego state before. What does that mean actually? So you don't have any alter personalities and never did, or they have all integrated after you achieved co-consciousness?I have no desire for integration. I resent the very idea. The "emotional" side of me would think it would really mean letting the responsible, grown up, rational, emotionally limited shell of a human who everyone thinks of as "Dinah", who goes to work, and who interacts the world take over. The "rational" side of me wants nothing to do with the messy emotions. I'm pretty firm on not wanting integration and my therapist is respectful of that.
I dislike the word alter because the "emotional" side of me would claim that that was the original Dinah and the "rational" side was merely a "front" that developed the illusion of separate consciousness - like Data on Star Trek? The "rational" side would insist that since that's the part that largely that interacts with the world and is present most of the time, the "emotional" side is just a troublesome leftover of what it chose to leave behind. So each side claims core personality status and neither wishes to be called an alter. The term ego state is much preferred. Separate centers of consciousness would be even better, but more unwieldly. Separate levels of consciousness is what my therapist would say. And that works out just fine with me too.
> > And I suspect you're right about people wanting demand performances. And you're right that that is abusive. I am sooooo glad my therapist reacts as matter of factly as I do. He never asks to speak to some other part of me, or does anything that makes me feel like I'm anything but a perfectly normal human being.
>
> What do you mean that he never asks to speak to some "other" part of you? How would he do that? I feel like my T treats me with respect and absolutely like a normal human being but he naturally wants contact with my alters too.
>
My emotional self was only able to communicate by bolts of emotion for many years and I would just find myself doing things I didn't understand or having reactions that made no sense to me. I spoke in terms of me and me back then, but the emotional self just started directly communicating a year or so ago. My therapist never asked before then, because he didn't want to encourage an iatrogenic phenomenon. My therapist never asked after that because he never really makes a big deal about it, and asking would make a big deal of it. He just talks to whatever ego states presents himself. He talks to them in a different way, in the way that each is likely to respond to by appealing to, say, logic or emotion (or self interest) as needed. But he would never dream of asking to talk to whoever wasn't there. For one thing, I would probably resent that. For another thing, it's just not that easy to comply. I can't shift back and forth on request. My emotional self usually shows up for therapy. My rational self, of course, feels no need for therapy.> I hope you don't mind me asking you some questions, I was just a little confused by some of the things you said and really want to understand what you meant!
>
>
I don't blame you for being confused. I don't think I'm the typical presentation of anything. Hence the DD-NOS rather than DID. But I hope I didn't offend by venting my own frustration.
Posted by DaisyM on April 10, 2004, at 15:58:11
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2004, at 9:38:43
I want to jump in here, if I can.
I don't have DID but I since being in therapy I definately have a couple of voices going off. The biggest differentiation for me is my "adult" voice and my "child" voice. They are co-conscious but really hate what each other wants. I would liken this to Dinah's emotional/rational states.
The biggest difference for me is around the expression of need for nurturing. The child part has been unleashed by therapy and she *demands* a lot of my Therapist. She wants to be heard and has a lot of hard things to share. The adult wants to contain her, 1) because her stuff is too hard to hear 2) her stuff is so old, it isn't relevent to the adult's life anymore and 3)her emotions make it really hard for the adult to function so that nobody notices the suffering. Plus the child is frightened that sharing the old, bad stuff will overwhelm my therapist, resulting in abandonment, so she wants a lot of contact. The adult deals with the abandonment fears by keeping an emotional distance and talking about practical problems that need solving.
So, not two diffent personalities, but two different states and ages. I find it all very disconcerting, especially talking about myself in parts. I try not to do that too much but it is impossible to describe the circular arguments that go on in my head without talking about the two voices. I definately don't talk about different voices outside of therapy...or here.
My Therapist has asked directly to talk to the child part. Before that, I talked about "her" or what she wanted but the adult always edited out most of the needy stuff. The first time he asked, it was really awful for me. "She" spilled out all this stuff and "I" couldn't get her to shut up. At the next session I asked him "why did he do that?!" He told me she was "right there." He could feel her in the room with us and thought it was important to let her talk. It took me weeks to forgive him. But I did not feel disrespected at all. And I doubt I would have let her out if he hadn't asked and then worked hard afterward to let the adult part know that what the child said was OK.
I guess everyone's experience is really different and maybe therapy naturally has us examining ourselves in parts and stages. I'm sure having "true" DID is much harder than what I've experienced. I appreciate this thread and I've learned a lot.
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2004, at 20:44:14
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by DaisyM on April 10, 2004, at 15:58:11
I guess it's possible that at some distant past point in therapy he asked to speak to the part who... whatever. But if so, it was so long ago I can't remember.
Now he would no sooner request to speak to a different part of me than he would ask me to leave the room so he could speak to another client. :)
And I would view it just about the same way.
Posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 10:09:00
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2004, at 20:44:14
Or think I'm deranged? Or my therapist's favorite word (tho not about this), troubled? Or as an oddity or as a freak? It really isn't a big deal, or at least in my case it isn't.
I was scared to tell, but I didn't think I should continue be ashamed of me.
Posted by tinydancer on April 11, 2004, at 11:00:38
In reply to Are y'all scared of me now?, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 10:09:00
> Or think I'm deranged? Or my therapist's favorite word (tho not about this), troubled? Or as an oddity or as a freak? It really isn't a big deal, or at least in my case it isn't.
>
> I was scared to tell, but I didn't think I should continue be ashamed of me.I'm sorry, Dinah, I just read your posts. I'm certainly not scared of you at all. I don't think anyone would, should, or could be! I feel very vulnerable myself right now because I've written so much about some really personal things, that I'm starting to let my imagination get carried away with why some people haven't replied to this thread. I think about the people who believe that there is no such thing as multiple personalities, and worry that someone thinks I'm lying or making it up for attention.
Anyway, the main reason I haven't responded is because I couldn't process anymore information about it. I just became afraid especially because not a lot of people had posted in the thread. I am just sitting on the sidelines to see what happens and who else pops up with something to say.
You should definitley not continue be ashamed! I shouldn't either. It's a long road but I think that it is acheivable with a T you can trust.
Posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 11:10:38
In reply to Re: Are y'all scared of me now? » Dinah, posted by tinydancer on April 11, 2004, at 11:00:38
You're describing exactly the same fears I have, Tinydancer. I *know* I shouldn't be ashamed, yet there seems ample reason to be scared to death. Even my therapist doesn't think I should disclose to my family or at work. He thought Babble already knew. He thinks I should tell my psychiatrist, but no way am I doing that. My psychiatrist is one who believes in ignoring "dramatic" behavior so that it goes away. And he mistakes not mentioning it in front of him as "going away". Anyway, it's not a medication issue so there's no need for him to know.
Posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 11:11:18
In reply to Re: Are y'all scared of me now? » Dinah, posted by tinydancer on April 11, 2004, at 11:00:38
Posted by gardenergirl on April 11, 2004, at 11:21:15
In reply to Re: Are y'all scared of me now? » tinydancer, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 11:10:38
Dinah and tiny,
I'm not scared of either of you now or before. I'm awed by how much you have shared, as I can imagine it would feel like a huge risk given the stereotypes and lack of knowledge people have about dissociative disorders.I haven't added anything to the thread, really because I am just sitting back, reading, and learning so much. Plus, the thread seems to be flowing well.
But I guess we are usually better at offering support. So thank you. I can tell this was difficult. And it certainly hasn't changed how I feel about either of you. Except perhaps to add to the awe I have for the ability to adapt to and cope with trauma.
(((Dinah))) and (((tiny)))
gg
Posted by lucy stone on April 11, 2004, at 14:40:24
In reply to Re: Are y'all scared of me now?, posted by gardenergirl on April 11, 2004, at 11:21:15
Dinah and Tiny,
I also haven't responded to this thread because I don't feel like I have the knowledge base to add much. I am not scared of either of you and I certainly don't think either one of you has anything to be afraid of. You have both been very brave in opening up here the way you have. You are both to be admired in the ways you handle you internal lives.
Posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 15:46:05
In reply to Re: Are y'all scared of me now?, posted by lucy stone on April 11, 2004, at 14:40:24
And I apologize. I realize that my question put people on the spot and I didn't mean to. I was just feeling vulnerable and scared and wanted to get any fallout over with quickly.
Silly of me, I know.
Posted by antigua on April 11, 2004, at 15:49:27
In reply to Are y'all scared of me now?, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 10:09:00
Absolutely not. I know how hard it is to share and I'm really impressed that you felt comfortable to do so. You are a wonderful person.
antigua
Posted by lucy stone on April 11, 2004, at 16:52:37
In reply to Thank you, GardenerGirl and » lucy stone, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 15:46:05
I don't think you were silly at all. You took a chance by sharing and then got nervous about it. Looking for reassurance is perfectly natural, IMO.
Posted by Jai Narayan on April 11, 2004, at 19:00:23
In reply to Re: Thank you, GardenerGirl and, posted by lucy stone on April 11, 2004, at 16:52:37
I think my mother had the same dx. She seemed like so many people wrapped into one. We, her children, saw a different person.
I am so thankful that you answered so many questions and created clairty where there was confusion.
I am glad that you approached the topic with such grace and ease. I feel more comfortable because of that.
What an outstanding dialogue between DaisyM and Misshoneycrunch....I am still in awe.
And Dinah, it took courage to share....I totally honor that.
I love the honesty on this site and the incredible sharing.
Thanks
Posted by pegasus on April 12, 2004, at 14:03:03
In reply to This has helped me immensly...thank you, posted by Jai Narayan on April 11, 2004, at 19:00:23
I also want to say thanks for everyone experiencing DID or related phenomena who shared here. I just now read this thread (sorry, I've been swamped and reading things only spottily), and I'm blown away, in a good way.
Part of me is a little jealous of you having these different personalities or states that handle different things. It seems so much more organized than what I experience, which is so often contradictory and jumbled up. I don't mean to minimize your suffering, by any means. I just wanted to share that positive piece of my reaction, because it sounded like you were worried about people having negative reactions.
All of me is in awe of you guys and how brave you've been to explain things in so much detail! I've learned a ton, and am not scared or turned off or anything bad. I feel bad that you worried about that! I think it'll be helpful in understanding folks in the future, and being supportive to you all. I have immense respect for your honesty and openness here.
pegasus
Posted by shadows721 on April 12, 2004, at 17:56:35
In reply to Thank you, GardenerGirl and » lucy stone, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 15:46:05
I am in a nasty litigation and the employer has gotten access into all my psych info (hospitalizations, psychiatrist notes, and therapist notes). My attorney has sense acted very funny. He keeps cancelling my appointments and said to me, "I understand you are going the a rough time." Anyway, I feel like I am being blown off and even his staff look at me differently. I have in my hx dx of MPD. The opposing atty talks to me really soft and slow. I feel like I am being treated totally differently since they have accessed my charts.
I feel emotionally violated. I feel like they are treating me like they think I am crazy. I am not crazy. I am really angry as Hell. My records had detailed of sexual abuse. Folks, if you think your records are confidential, think again. In the work comp system, all records are open game. It is the worst treatment I have had since being an adult. It seems like the only people who understand my pain are those who regularly see a therapist.
I just don't know what to say, but this is triggering rage in me. I feel like they are treating me like a freak, because they know I was sadistically abused as a kid. It just makes the abusers powerful again in my eyes. **** on them. I am totally enraged about this violation of confidentiality. I feel like I am being treated like a felon.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 12, 2004, at 20:18:57
In reply to Re: being treated like I am crazy, posted by shadows721 on April 12, 2004, at 17:56:35
I'm so sorry you are going through this. How awful to have someone you are relying on start treating you different. No wonder you are angry. I wish I had the opportunity to set your lawyer and his staff straight about people with mental illness. I wish there was more I could say.
(((shadows)))
Take care,
gg
Posted by Dinah on April 12, 2004, at 20:55:54
In reply to Re: being treated like I am crazy, posted by shadows721 on April 12, 2004, at 17:56:35
There ought to be a law.
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