![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 3, 2004, at 12:38:46
Interesting idea, and definite ethical dilemma. What do you think?
gg
A long article in tomorrow's New York Times Magazine discusses the
extensive
research programs exploring the use of drugs and other means to alter
memories, particularly painful memories.The article does devote a few passages to concerns about the potential
downsides or unintended consequences of such strategies as giving
memory-blocking drugs to everyone coming to an e.r. because of trauma.
The
author includes such quotes from others as: "Changing the content of
our
memories or altering their emotional tonalities, however desirable to
alleviate guilty or painful consciousness, could subtly reshape who we
are.... Distress, anxiety and sorrow [are] appropriate reflections of
the
fragility of human life." Another quote notes that painful memories
are
"where a lot of empathy comes from.... That is, when we have an
embarrassing experience, we develop empathy for others who have a
similar
experience."But most of the article discusses the success that scientists are
achieving
along these lines and the positive effects that are anticipated from
scientific and medical control of memories.The article ends by describing as "twisted" notion of any society that
would
not pursue these methods of altering memories: "Without witnessing the
torment of unremitting post-traumatic stress disorder, it is easy to
exaggerate the benefits of holding on to bitter memories. But a person
crippled by memories is a diminished person; there is nothing ennobling
about it. If we as a society decide it's better to keep people locked
in
their anguish because of some idealized view of what it means to be
human,
we might be revealing ourselves to be a society with a twisted notion
of
what being human really means."The article -- "The Quest to Forget" by Robin Henig -- is online at
<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/04/magazine/04MEMORY.html>;.
Posted by Fallen4myT on April 3, 2004, at 17:41:33
In reply to article about altering memories to prev. PTSD, posted by gardenergirl on April 3, 2004, at 12:38:46
GG, I suffer PTSD ....and I think its creepy. I want my memories good or bad, its part of the sum total that makes up ME...We are all defined by what we experience BOTH good and bad ...To me its shades of two songs I know...Go ask Alice....and that one ...they sing,,EVERYTHING YOU THINK DO AND SAY IS THE PILL YOU TOOK TODAY...tITLE,,In the years 2525 by Zagar and Evans
Posted by gardenergirl on April 3, 2004, at 22:02:34
In reply to Re: article about altering memories to prev. PTSD » gardenergirl, posted by Fallen4myT on April 3, 2004, at 17:41:33
Fallen,
I tend to agree. It reminded me a bit of certain movies...Total Recall being the one that comes to mind at the moment. I, too, think that I am an integration of all of my thoughts, feelings, memories, behaviors, experiences, etc. It seems like if you could pick and choose to only have pleasant memories, life would become dull and empty. You need some bitter to appreciate joy.Love your music knowlege!
gg
Posted by Fallen4myT on April 3, 2004, at 22:10:08
In reply to Re: article about altering memories to prev. PTSD, posted by gardenergirl on April 3, 2004, at 22:02:34
GG, Thanks I am a music NUT :-) I have complex PTSD as I was ..well lots of crap happened in my life and T and I have talked about it and I told him I would NOT change a thing in my life or erase any person because that would make me not ME...and I am ME cause of all I have experienced the good, bad and ugly...I might change the way I handle money :) I always forget I get myself in jams with him without a pill to help lol
Posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 14:51:54
In reply to Re: article about altering memories to prev. PTSD » gardenergirl, posted by Fallen4myT on April 3, 2004, at 22:10:08
Oh, if only there were a pill specific to saving money! But then what would take the place of shopping therapy?
Don't mean to make light of money issues, but something about your post made me go off on a silly tangent!
gg
Posted by Fallen4myT on April 4, 2004, at 19:57:33
In reply to Re: article about altering memories to prev. PTSD, posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 14:51:54
LOL GG, my post was meant to do just that :-)
> Oh, if only there were a pill specific to saving money! But then what would take the place of shopping therapy?
>
> Don't mean to make light of money issues, but something about your post made me go off on a silly tangent!
>
> gg
Posted by Dinah on April 4, 2004, at 20:05:02
In reply to article about altering memories to prev. PTSD, posted by gardenergirl on April 3, 2004, at 12:38:46
I've got funny feelings about the idea. On the one hand, I'm great at my own version of altering memories - of separating the memory from the accompanying emotions. And I certainly value that ability. But the idea of chemically doing it. Well, how well can they target that? Maybe good old fashioned dissociation and self hypnosis should be taught instead.
Posted by Speaker on April 4, 2004, at 22:57:52
In reply to Re: article about altering memories to prev. PTSD, posted by Dinah on April 4, 2004, at 20:05:02
GG,
I too suffer from PTSD and it sounds as if this drug doesn't take the memory away it just differs the impact the memory might have. I found it to be very interesting and am going to take it into my T tommorrow. Thanks for sharing!
Posted by DaisyM on April 4, 2004, at 23:26:04
In reply to Re: article about altering memories to prev. PTSD, posted by Speaker on April 4, 2004, at 22:57:52
I don't know what to think. I agree about my memories making up who I am etc. But there are days when I would trade them to relieve some of the agony I feel.
It is interesting to think about though.
Posted by shadows721 on April 6, 2004, at 22:49:20
In reply to article about altering memories to prev. PTSD, posted by gardenergirl on April 3, 2004, at 12:38:46
I, too, suffer from complex PTSD. Part of my therapy is to recall the painful experience, so that I don't continue to unconsciously react to things inappropriately. With that in mind, how woud a drug amnesia help me? I already have a self induced amnesia that is causing Hell in my life. I react like a 3 y/o to adult situations. If I never remember, how can I process these feelings from no where land?
Once I have these memories come up, I actually have more respect for myself. I use to think that I was a total whimp. I can't handle a lot of things. Well, now, I know there is a darn good reason. Now, I can say - "I looked the Devil in the eyes and lived to actually speak about the unspoken." When I think that I can't do something, I say to myself, "You have faced the worst fear (actually dying for a split second or two), so how can this be any worse than that." This pill sounds more like a denial pill to me. Why do we need to deny our history to ourselves and for what purpose? Yes, these memories are horrors, but you learn from them. You learn who you are and what made you this way. To be in denial by a pill, would hinder self awareness and learning to me. That's just my opinion for myself.
Posted by skeptic on April 9, 2004, at 11:13:59
In reply to Re: article about altering memories to prev. PTSD, posted by shadows721 on April 6, 2004, at 22:49:20
Read this article this AM, and it strikes me that here, too, like with much of human behavior, we're posed with the dilemma of what *might* (though I stress might, since, as we see, not even all individuals who have experienced PTSD think that this pill would be a good thing) be good for an individual versus what might be important for society.
I give the example of Vietnam, though there are countless other examples of mass tragedy that I can think of. As the article mentions, many Vietnam vets came back with horrific memories, memories that invariably affected their families and others who come into contact with them. From these vets, America as a nation has learned (well, let's hope we did) to be more careful about getting involved in non-domestic disputes, and we are all reminded of just how horrific war can be.
It is this kind of collective memory that strikes me as important if a nation (or people) is to learn from its past, well beyond the time of a particular horrific event.
I suppose that (again continuing with the Vietnam example) one could argue that those back at home saw the pictures and/or heard the news, and that textbooks serve to teach later generations, but I don't think any of these really substitute for real live vets recounting their intensely emotional memories even years afterwards, reminding us know just how horrific things were (and still could be).
> I, too, suffer from complex PTSD. Part of my therapy is to recall the painful experience, so that I don't continue to unconsciously react to things inappropriately. With that in mind, how woud a drug amnesia help me? I already have a self induced amnesia that is causing Hell in my life. I react like a 3 y/o to adult situations. If I never remember, how can I process these feelings from no where land?
>
> Once I have these memories come up, I actually have more respect for myself. I use to think that I was a total whimp. I can't handle a lot of things. Well, now, I know there is a darn good reason. Now, I can say - "I looked the Devil in the eyes and lived to actually speak about the unspoken." When I think that I can't do something, I say to myself, "You have faced the worst fear (actually dying for a split second or two), so how can this be any worse than that." This pill sounds more like a denial pill to me. Why do we need to deny our history to ourselves and for what purpose? Yes, these memories are horrors, but you learn from them. You learn who you are and what made you this way. To be in denial by a pill, would hinder self awareness and learning to me. That's just my opinion for myself.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.