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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by justyourlaugh on March 17, 2004, at 21:38:36
In reply to Re: Ego strength » Dinah, posted by Fallen4myT on March 17, 2004, at 21:16:43
dinah,
i think you are a very smart woman..
i think the trouble we get in, is knowing what to do..but getting to the "act" of putting it in place..
your inner conversations need to be more positive ,how does one teach themselves to feel good..
you are very wise at helping others,,how can you reach yourself?
j
Posted by mair on March 17, 2004, at 21:38:59
In reply to I know, should be working, but real quick..., posted by gardenergirl on March 17, 2004, at 21:36:22
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2004, at 21:49:08
In reply to Re: Ego strength » Dinah, posted by Fallen4myT on March 17, 2004, at 21:16:43
Thanks. :) It's actually going better than I had feared (except Monday). But I guess the worrying is stress in itself. I try not to think of it too much and busy myself with work, but stress tends to pop up one place if you block another, doesn't it?
Posted by tabitha on March 17, 2004, at 21:51:45
In reply to Ego strength, posted by Dinah on March 17, 2004, at 21:04:56
Is ego strength like differentiation? That's a concept from family systems therapy.. basically it's how well you're able to hang onto your sense of yourself and your level of functioning in the face of other people's reactions and anxiety. My therapist keeps telling me I need some of that.
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2004, at 21:53:48
In reply to I know, should be working, but real quick..., posted by gardenergirl on March 17, 2004, at 21:36:22
Oh, I do like that metaphor as well. And congratulations! My modus operandi is to do ok during the stressful event, but fall apart after. So my mother's surgery was over and I heard the largely cheerful news (only two toes amputated) Monday night and fell apart soon afterwards. So maybe I need to remember to keep applying that sunscreen even after the sun goes down, to continue the metaphor. :)
(And I won't even fuss at what I'm sure was a rare break from work. Thanks for posting.)
((((gardenergirl))))
Hope all is going well with your work.
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2004, at 22:00:23
In reply to Re: Ego strength, posted by tabitha on March 17, 2004, at 21:51:45
Hmmmmm... Maybe I don't have the concept down as well as I thought. I *think* it's your store of coping skills and abilities that you can apply when adverse events happen so that you don't fall apart. I always feel like one of those screen savers that dissolves into lots and lots of little squares before reforming into another picture? If that makes sense? That's why I call my therapist (and the Risperdal) my ego glue.
I'm not sure if that's the same as differentiation or not... Does differentiation have to be in relation to other people? I think you can have poor ego strength all alone.
lol. Gosh, it sounds funny to talk about these concepts without a therapist in the room. :)
I haven't studied much family systems concepts. Perhaps I ought to.
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2004, at 22:15:21
In reply to Re: Ego strength, posted by justyourlaugh on March 17, 2004, at 21:38:36
I've got this possibly crazy theory that it's the smartest and wisest part of me that causes me the most trouble. Well, that's not completely true. It gets me through the day and lets me do what I need to do. It helped me think positively during my mother's sugery despite her alarmist attitude, and it helped me keep my father optimistic as well.
So I guess it has its uses. But I also associate it with the anxiety and the chest pain and the obsessive thoughts. Like maybe anxiety protects you from feeling other things? Or forcing yourself to be sensible causes anxiety? Something like that.
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2004, at 22:24:50
In reply to Re: Ego strength » Dinah, posted by mair on March 17, 2004, at 21:36:40
No, it doesn't seem fair. :(
It's kind of funny. My therapist has been telling me about my low ego strength for years. I scored so low on an ego strength test that it wasn't even scorable. And I've never really understood the concept.
But now I have this breakthrough ah-hah moment that my therapist has been right all along. It's not in the DSM IV, but that *is* my main problem. I've had three bouts of major depression in my life, but I'm not in therapy for my depression. I definitely have OCD and anxiety. But therapy brought my OCD to manageable levels years and years ago.
I think my major problem really is lack of ego strength. That's why I've been in therapy nearly nine years. My therapist has been right all this time! (Well, maybe not all this time. I'm don't remember when he came up with his theory - I just remember being offended. I always thought I had a rather healthy ego.)
Go figure.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 17, 2004, at 22:26:57
In reply to Re: Ego strength » Fallen4myT, posted by Dinah on March 17, 2004, at 21:49:08
Ahhh not always...as my wise T once said you cannot FEEL to *opposite emotions at once*..so if you lol, yell or scream, run till you hurt or find a sad story even it takes the anxiety off you for a while. But you do have a lot on you so many people do now days..I wish I lived with Ward and June Cleaver :)
> Thanks. :) It's actually going better than I had feared (except Monday). But I guess the worrying is stress in itself. I try not to think of it too much and busy myself with work, but stress tends to pop up one place if you block another, doesn't it?
Posted by pegasus on March 17, 2004, at 23:21:28
In reply to Ego strength, posted by Dinah on March 17, 2004, at 21:04:56
Ya know, I thought I knew what ego strength was, but now after reading these posts, I've gotten all confused again. So here are some definitions I got from the web:
"If ego is the self in contact with reality, then ego-strength refers to the strength of our sense of self or person to look life in the face without caving in or being overwhelmed. The strength of ego-strength is the power, determination, road ability to engage reality for whatever we find it to be. This highlights ego-strength as the ability to accept what is as existing and to then use our cognitive-behavioral, emotional and relational skills to deal with such. Ego-strength then is our ability to play the Game of Life according to whatever curves life throws at us. Ego-strength also refers to the inner personal strength by which we tolerate stress and frustration. It is ego-strength that allows us to deal with reality without falling back to infantile defense mechanisms."
"The ability of the ego to execute its functions, to mediate between the external world, the id, and the superego effectively and efficiently, so that energy is left over for creativity and other integrative activities. Among specific functions that may be assessed in determining ego strength are judgment, reality testing, regulation of drives, defensive functions, thought processes, and object relations."
I don't really like the part about infantile defense mechanisms, but other than that, this seems to be more or less what you were talking about, Dinah, and more.
- p
Posted by Dinah on March 18, 2004, at 10:33:36
In reply to Re: Ego strength, posted by pegasus on March 17, 2004, at 23:21:28
Thanks Pegasus. I think ego strength will probably be the topic of therapy Friday because I really think I'm finally starting to understand, and if it's ok with you I'll print out your post as a way of discussing the "more".
I wonder if the sense of fragmentation is part of the primitive defense mechanisms or a breakdown of the "strength of our sense of self or person" itself.
Posted by tabitha on March 18, 2004, at 10:57:00
In reply to Re: Ego strength » tabitha, posted by Dinah on March 17, 2004, at 22:00:23
I think differentiation is defined in relation to other people. So for ego strenth.. don't most of the adverse events involve people? I mean, if a cabinet door falls off its hinges or a toilet leaks, is that just as much of a stressor as an unkind word?
I've probably been influenced a lot by my therapist who seems to relate just about all emotional reactions to attachment issues.
Posted by pegasus on March 18, 2004, at 11:09:02
In reply to Re: Ego strength » pegasus, posted by Dinah on March 18, 2004, at 10:33:36
Sure, feel free to print anything I ever post if you want. Will you let us know what your T says about the ego strength concept? I'm really curious now.
My T used to say that I had poor object constancy, which, in part, meant that I would see myself as horrible, stupid, evil, awful at times, and then wonderful, exceptional at other times. And I couldn't see the other side when I was on one side of it. I've made a lot of progress lately, in recognizing the middle ground, where I'm just a regular person with good and bad aspects. This seems somehow related to ego strength.
- p
Posted by All Done on March 18, 2004, at 14:20:36
In reply to Ego strength, posted by Dinah on March 17, 2004, at 21:04:56
Dinah,
I'm sorry it's been so difficult for you over the weekend and into this week. I wish I had magic to help you feel better.
Are you striving to have "enough" ego strength so that you can handle things on your own? I worry that now isn't a good time to place so much responsibility on yourself. Maybe part of building your ego strength involves accepting that you can only handle so much at any given time (like now) and then slowly building on that when the stressors are low. To use gg's metaphor, they always say, sunscreen is no good if you put it on right when you get to the beach. Apply at least 30 minutes before going into the sun :).
It's okay if you can't handle everything during this difficult time and that is exactly why you have your ego glue (T, Risperdal, Babble?) in place.
Take care of yourself and let others help, too.
All Done
Posted by whisper55 on March 18, 2004, at 18:43:15
In reply to Re: Ego strength » Dinah, posted by All Done on March 18, 2004, at 14:20:36
usually if I say to myself the whole house has to be very clean, like Stephanie's house(my cousin I compete with she has no depression) So I look at all the stuff that needs to be done and sit back and cry it is to much. Then day after day nothing is done and I get worse. I learnd in a meeting first things firs, and little at a time. I was told to just do 1 thing like hang up my shirt, then the next day do 1 more thing or 2. Now my mind is at ease and doesn't feel quilty for the non action, however my expectations were so high it set me off. ego strength i think of my inner strength. Ego makes me compete, jealous, high, cocky. Hope this helps just my experience. Wish you well.
Posted by Dinah on March 19, 2004, at 11:29:31
In reply to Re: Ego strength » Dinah, posted by tabitha on March 18, 2004, at 10:57:00
I specifically asked my therapist about that. He said that differentiation was an important component of ego strength. And one that I was lacking in.
Then he proceeded to give me many examples of how my differentiation left something to be desired. Which was a huge shock to this self proclaimed loner.
I did know that I had trouble with my parents, but I thought that I was much better. I told him I had given him the credit for my improvement and had I given him too much? lol. But he admitted I had improved, just that I had a ways left to go.
Posted by Dinah on March 19, 2004, at 11:30:51
In reply to re, posted by whisper55 on March 18, 2004, at 18:43:15
The reason I had initially rejected his idea is that I had always considered myself to have a pretty strong ego. ;)
Posted by Dinah on March 19, 2004, at 11:34:21
In reply to Re: Ego strength » Dinah, posted by All Done on March 18, 2004, at 14:20:36
My therapist said that, too. That I have a tendency to take responsibility for things that are not mine to be responsible for.
I didn't have the presence of mind to ask him how he can say that when one of the major areas of conflict in our relationship is that he thinks I try to duck responsibility for myself.
Maybe he's talking about different types of situations. Or maybe I initially attempt to duck all responsibility, but when I fail I try to accomplish everything.
I'm going to have to follow up on that aspect of what he said. Sometimes he totally bewilders me.
Posted by Dinah on March 19, 2004, at 11:44:36
In reply to Re: Ego strength » Dinah, posted by pegasus on March 18, 2004, at 11:09:02
He said that part of ego strength was having an enduring sense of who you are. So I'm guessing object constancy would be another component of it.
When I told him my ah-hah realization that he was right and that lack of ego strength was my biggest problem, he said "Well, I wouldn't say it was your *biggest* problem." Gee. Thanks... Ya gotta love a guy that honest.
But then he thought a bit more and said that yes, he thought it was my biggest core problem and that a lot of my other problems branched off from there.
And we had a relatively productive session discussing the areas where my ego strenth was lacking, and the fact that I used him and Risperdal as ego glue. He was amused that he was lumped in with a medication. And he thinks the only way to strengthen the ego is to practice, practice, practice. Build one brick on top of the other. And he thinks I am doing that - that I am progressing.
It was funny because right before I mentioned ego strength I was asking him about a couple of other things he told me years ago. He had said that he thought I would have been better off if I had never gone into therapy. I asked him if he still thought that, and he said no. He said that for one thing, he thought that he had mistaken my seeming competence for more than it was. And (what ties in with ego strength) he had underestimated how much life changes shook me. He said that when there was a major change in my life it shook my precarious equilibrium and it took me a loooong time (like years rather than months) to regain equilibrium again. And that my beginning therapy happened to coincide with a lot of life changes. Which was an absolutely perfect segue into the ego strength conversation.
Posted by Dinah on March 19, 2004, at 11:49:22
In reply to Re: Ego strength » pegasus, posted by Dinah on March 19, 2004, at 11:44:36
Oh, the other question I asked him was about another statement he had made years ago. He said that he was afraid of slaying Grendel in therapy for fear of arousing the wrath of Grendel's mother. He didn't remember saying that to me, but said he believed he said it because he loves "Beowulf". Yeah, like we don't recall every word they ever told us in nearly nine years of therapy. :)
Anyway, he says he uses that imagery for therapy in general, not just for me. That he always worries that slaying the smaller monster will reveal a bigger one.
But he also said after all this time he doesn't really expect any monstrous surprises are lurking. And that he doesn't remember any Grendel's mothers appearing in my therapy.
:)
Posted by noa on March 19, 2004, at 19:06:42
In reply to Re: Grendel and Grendel's mother, posted by Dinah on March 19, 2004, at 11:49:22
I was never listening in English class in HS, so i dond't know the reference from "Beowulf"--wait, come to think of it, they didn't teach it when I was in HS because it was the funky 1970's when classical education was not required. Of course, they went back to it later on, but my generation kind of missed a whole bunch of classic stuff--Greek mythology, English classics, etc.
What was my point? Oh yeah, could you explain the allusion to Grendl and his mom? Thanks.
Posted by Dinah on March 19, 2004, at 19:18:42
In reply to Re: Grendel and Grendel's mother » Dinah, posted by noa on March 19, 2004, at 19:06:42
The hero Beowulf slayed the mighty monster from the lake, Grendel. Everyone was so grateful. Everyone except Grendel's mother, who was even bigger and fiercer than Grendel, who rose from the deep to wreak vengeance. Beowulf eventually disposed of her too.
So I think the idea is that if you dispose of dysfunctional coping mechanisms (the monster Grendel), you risk unleashing the underlying whatevers the defense mechanisms were protecting you from (Grendel's mom). Or something like that.
By the way, it is a pretty cool epic poem. :)
Posted by tabitha on March 19, 2004, at 23:57:43
In reply to Re: Ego strength and differentiation » tabitha, posted by Dinah on March 19, 2004, at 11:29:31
Gee, I'll bet you're so glad you've got more things to work on :-(
I felt the same way when I started talking about codependency. I am so *not* a caretaking type, at least in terms of doing things for others or giving them money or letting them move into my house. But my therapist kept saying I was 'taking care of' people in other ways. Usually it was stepping around the areas that might upset them, or editing myself or things like that. I don't even have a good enough grasp to give examples.
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2004, at 10:08:49
In reply to Re: Ego strength and differentiation » Dinah, posted by tabitha on March 19, 2004, at 23:57:43
Yes, it's an odd concept isn't it?
I am about as far from a caretaking sort as you can imagine. I surprised myself with my son at being able and willing and even happy to do it. But generally I pull away from caretaking demands. And the complaints in my personal life are generally that I am too removed and distant. So my therapist really surprised me.
It's going to take a bit of getting used to. But it's not totally and completely out of the question I suppose. I had such a weird relationship in my family growing up. I was both very much the indulged "daughter" and very much the parentified little adult who was cooking dinner by age ten, and taking care of most of house and yard by age 13. And running emotional interference between the parents and acting as their unofficial therapist since... birth?
So I guess a mix of avoiding responsibility at all costs while also taking on way too much responsibility; being distant to the point of cool while still managing to be enmeshed. Those things *seem* impossible. But perhaps they aren't. I wonder how many other aspects of my life reveal that dichotomy.
Posted by pegasus on March 21, 2004, at 0:51:28
In reply to Re: Ego strength » pegasus, posted by Dinah on March 19, 2004, at 11:44:36
Hmmm. Very interesting. That does make sense then.
I like your description of your session, too. Especially where you lumped your T in with the medication, and that amused him.
Your description of your enmeshment with family sounds oh so familiar. I was also cooking dinner, making peace between parents, cleaning the house, etc. by 13. And now I live thousands of miles from them, but sometimes I forget that I'm my own person, and all of the people around here only know me, not me in relation to my family (which is how I think of myself). Really, sometimes it just catches me off guard.
Thanks for the interesting thread.
- p
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