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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on January 30, 2004, at 11:05:23
In reply to therapists/pdocs and honest opinions..., posted by Penny on January 30, 2004, at 10:38:19
Originally posted by Penny 1/30/04
> With the talk of transference/countertransference and various other topics on the board, a question comes to mind...
>
> If you have big problems with self-image, particularly appearance, do you think it's helpful for therapists to be truthful in their opinions of how you look?
>
> My former T told me once that she thought I was very pretty, but that it didn't matter what she thought b/c I wouldn't believe her until I allowed myself to. And she was right. I still don't.
>
> I mean, I don't have three heads (no offense to any of you who DO happen to have three heads), people don't run away from me in fear, and children don't hide their faces and cry when they see me. So I assume that I look 'normal' - whatever that is. But I have such a HUGE problem with feeling attractive - even when I try to dress up, I just feel frumpy.
>
> But I'm so afraid to *ask*. Because, really, I don't know what good it would do. I guess my pdoc's opinion, as a man, would matter most to me, but I'm afraid of what he would say. Because if he told me I was attractive, I wouldn't believe him, but if he told me otherwise, I would feel even worse, even though he would've just validated what I already believed about myself (or perhaps *because* he would have validated those beliefs).
>
> I guess it's a catch-22. I know that some of you talk about your T's being very honest with you in the area of attractiveness and what you might do to appear more attractive, but I'm wondering if you think this is helpful.
>
> And please don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that looks are everything or are even that important. But I do know that I expect OTHER people to place a great deal of emphasis on appearance, at least when first meeting someone, so I let my 'unattractiveness' prevent me from doing things - like flirting. Or dating. or whatever...
>
> P
Posted by Dinah on January 30, 2004, at 11:15:54
In reply to Re: therapists/pdocs and honest opinions... » Penny, posted by Dinah on January 30, 2004, at 11:05:23
Well, in my case it may have stung just a bit, but it didn't hurt.
For one thing, I know what I am.
And for another thing, I know what he is. He really values appearances. Given who he was, and who I was, his response wasn't really hurtful.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 30, 2004, at 12:04:59
In reply to Re: therapists/pdocs and honest opinions... » Penny, posted by Dinah on January 30, 2004, at 11:05:23
I as well have a self-image problem and go through long periods of time where I feel completely unattractive. I have tried so hard to get my T to compliment me on my physical appearance (he compliments me a lot on my creativity, intelligence, etc), but he never falls for the traps I set to get a physical compliment. I KNOW he would never comment on my appearance. Very frustrating. But he is trying to hammer the thought into my head that the only opinion that counts in my life is my own, I shouldn't seek validation from others.
And I think maybe he is paranoid about complimenting female patients in general. Perhaps female Ts with female patients have no problem with the compliments. His boundaries are very strict.
Posted by justyourlaugh on January 30, 2004, at 12:15:16
In reply to Re: therapists/pdocs and honest opinions..., posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 30, 2004, at 12:04:59
i ask many times for my t to tell me "straight"..
i guess he does not think i can handle it because i can see right through him,,
i am speaking of my dx..
i think i look terrible(because i feel terrible)
when i feel good i look good..its that simple for me..
but i think the world hates me..t keeps telling me he likes me however i can see that i make him uncomfortable....
i would not ever see him again if he said i was a bitch or something like that...so i guess i dont really want honesty...just a non judgemental friend
j
Posted by Karen_kay on January 30, 2004, at 13:07:17
In reply to Re: therapists/pdocs and honest opinions..., posted by Dinah on January 30, 2004, at 11:15:54
I know that for me personally hearing my therapist say I'm beautiful is wonderful. But, there was a time when I focused on it entirely too much. I don't see how "hearing it straight" would benefit, as everyone has a different opinion on beauty. I hardly doubt there are any unattractive people here, regardless of what they "look" like. (And yes, I know I've said some mean things about my therapist's wife...I don't like her! But, she's not nearly as unatractive as I said she was. Just not who I'd like him to be married to either. I'll see if I can fix that mess :) And I'm not suggesting me.) I think a lot can be said for "pumping" up someone's self-esteem, but at the same time it can also be taken the wrong way, or that person can have certain issues where you wouldn't want to focus on any sort of physical beauty, ect.
But, I do know that my therapist has helped my self esteem by saying I'm beautiful. And if I question it, all I have to do is think, "Well, if a man like my therapist thinks I'm beautiful, then I must be." However, if he thought I were ugly and told me straight out that I was unatractive, or tried to give me tips on how to improve my appearance, I would be completely heartbroken. I would not only doubt my self esteem, but also every thing I did. I would constantly second guess myself. Dinah, I just don't see how that's beneficial to you. He may have an opinion on the matter (which I disagree with), but you know what they say about opinions, everyone has them.... He should have practiced a bit of self restraint.
Posted by Penny on January 30, 2004, at 14:03:15
In reply to Re: therapists/pdocs and honest opinions..., posted by Karen_kay on January 30, 2004, at 13:07:17
Thanks, all, for your feedback.
I don't by any means expect anyone to tell me that I'm beautiful. I look too much like my father to be beautiful. I know I was cute little girl. Red hair, blue eyes, straight teeth, average body size - actually a bit petite for my age when I was small. And I was pretty cute until I got to be about 9 and in the early phases of puberty. Then I started gaining weight, did god only knows what with my hair (!!!) and it was downhill from there.
I guess I agree with JYL in that I don't really want honesty - just a nonjudgmental friend. And I guess my clinicians and true friends are pretty nonjudgmental.
At the same time, my pdoc is really one of the only men (there's one other that I can think of!) who I really and truly trust, and I have such problems with men, and I tend to blame much of it on my looks/weight/etc., so part of me would like to know honestly what he thinks. But I guess even if I were to ask him, he would be a bit biased, as he has known me for a while now and a person's perception of another's attractiveness increases usually the longer you've known someone.
I dunno...my T keeps trying to convince me that it's not all about weight (I'm about a size 18-20, 5'6") or looks, but I'm not convinced. I have soooo much to work on in therapy. Gosh, I guess at the rate I'm going, I should just join a convent. At least then I can stop worrying about making myself attractive to men...
:-b
P
Posted by Althea8869 on January 30, 2004, at 16:05:15
In reply to Re: therapists/pdocs and honest opinions..., posted by Penny on January 30, 2004, at 14:03:15
This may be a trite response, but I dont think the question should even be asked until the answer to the question is completely irrelevant. I would think a good pdoc would already know that and respond accordingly. Im so sorry that you feel you need to be or look a certain way - no doubt one of the greatest tradgedies of our society. The happiest person in the world is going to be the one that honestly doesnt care - and would therefore never ask the question. That seemed a bit circular - sorry.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 30, 2004, at 17:59:18
In reply to docs opinions » Penny, posted by Althea8869 on January 30, 2004, at 16:05:15
<The happiest person in the world is going to be the one that honestly doesnt care - and would therefore never ask the question.
*** If only I were at that point! :( That's all I'm asking for...
Posted by Racer on January 30, 2004, at 18:06:55
In reply to Re: therapists/pdocs and honest opinions..., posted by Penny on January 30, 2004, at 14:03:15
Oh, Penny, you don't know how much I long to ask my pdoc the same question. Let's just say, I can tell you how I am trying to answer it.
I've started out by asking myself *why* I want to ask it, what benefit the answer can possibly provide for me -- whether real or perceived. The first part of that question, for me, has many different answers. "I want to think he thinks I'm attractive because that means he likes me." That's one possible answer, and wanting to be liked is a pretty common desire. On the other hand, how much does it really impact my care? Is there any benefit to me if he likes me? Is it possible that the logic of my argument is flawed? Maybe he thinks I'm pretty, but dislikes me because of my personality? Maybe he likes me, even though he thinks I'm homely?
What I guess I'm trying to say is that examining your impulse to ask your pdoc if he thinks you attractive might be of more lasting benefit than asking the question would provide. Does that make sense?
Oh, yeah, and about weight issues, here's some advice from a middle aged woman who has spent more than half her life starving herself in a futile attempt to prove her worthiness through Being Slim. Self image is a peculiar thing, and it's very much dependant on state of mind. Depression almost always leads me to self-starvation, in a sort of maladaptive self-medicating way, but as soon as the depression lifts, I find that I'm attractive again despite what I may weigh at the time -- and that I AM attractive, even if I am the only one who can see it on the outside.
When the depression is treated, I get comfortable in my own skin, and it makes my appearance so much less important to my happiness. I hope you'll find the same is true for you.
Good luck.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 30, 2004, at 20:44:03
In reply to Re: therapists/pdocs and honest opinions... » Penny, posted by Racer on January 30, 2004, at 18:06:55
Racer,
I'm really starting to like your posts...I find that when my depression lifts, it's like I can look into the mirror and see the whole beauty of me, not just appearance, but the innner beauty as well. Something about the eyes being windows of the soul...I can see more clearly and truthfully into myself when the cloud of depression is lifted. And I like what I see more than when I am depressed.
I wish that feeling for everyone,
gg
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 1, 2004, at 3:18:23
In reply to Re: therapists/pdocs and honest opinions... » Penny, posted by Dinah on January 30, 2004, at 11:05:23
Posted by leo33 on January 30, 2004, at 20:07:14
In reply to therapists/pdocs and honest opinions..., posted by Penny on January 30, 2004, at 10:38:19
Penny, if u want I will give you an honest opinion. Everyone has some beauty but also could use constructive criticism to help improve themselves and grow. Send me a picture and I'll give you an opinion, although it will only be superficial since it is based on looks alone.
Posted by terrics on February 1, 2004, at 13:13:16
In reply to Re: therapists/pdocs and honest opinions... » Racer, posted by gardenergirl on January 30, 2004, at 20:44:03
I realy liked the answers given by Althea and Gardiner girl. Both answers seem true..truly believing looks do not matter, and after a depression lifts one feels like they look much prettier because their insides feel much better. terrics
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