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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DaisyM on January 17, 2004, at 20:11:09
I hope this weekend is better. Did your daughter get off OK? It is hard to let them leave, especially for the whole semester.
I hope you don't avoid being here because of the current debate with your therapist but I totally understand if you back off a bit while you sort stuff out.
Just know I'm thinking about you.
-D
Posted by fallsfall on January 17, 2004, at 20:47:13
In reply to Just Checking on you, Fallsfall, posted by DaisyM on January 17, 2004, at 20:11:09
Thank you, Daisy. You are sweet to check on me.
I saw my therapist on Friday for 1/2 hour. He was anything but sweet and gentle. But I have more hope today than I had yesterday, so I guess he did his job.
I'm tired and I miss my puppies (see http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040109/msgs/302036.html).
Posted by Karen_kay on January 17, 2004, at 21:37:30
In reply to Re: Just Checking on you, Fallsfall » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on January 17, 2004, at 20:47:13
I'm sorry he wasn't sweet and gentle. It seems they aren't always what you want them to be, but somehow it works out they pull through, I guess. (Or at least help pull us through.)
As for the doggies, I have one I can loan to you if you like. But only for a day or so. That's about all I can stand to be away from him, unless I'm going somewhere really good.
Posted by DaisyM on January 18, 2004, at 1:08:08
In reply to Re: Just Checking on you, Fallsfall » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on January 17, 2004, at 20:47:13
Can you tell me about the hope? I really would like to hear how he was able to instill it...increase it.
If this is too personal, no problem. It is just that I seem to get side-swiped by overwhelming hopelessness at times and it takes me awhile to talk myself into moving forward again. Selfishly, I'm looking for anything that helps me do this better or faster.
I'm sorry about your puppies but glad they are gonna be OK. I guess that is why I have cats. They stick their nose in the air at most foods. And they cuddle well.
Posted by fallsfall on January 18, 2004, at 9:53:15
In reply to Re: Just Checking on you » fallsfall, posted by DaisyM on January 18, 2004, at 1:08:08
I was feeling like I was failing therapy (9 years and I still don't know what to do). It seemed like everytime I tried to do something to help therapy, he didn't like it (some of this is that he didn't like it, some of it is that I thinks he doesn't like things when he doesn't have a problem with them). When I think about failing therapy, then I have no hope. Therapy is the only thing that will pull me out of this depression.
He bypassed whether I was failing therapy and started talking about patterns that he sees. He thinks I am stubborn (Gee, I've known this since I was 5). As the session was ending he was questioning why I go from being "normal" to "stubborn" (I call it controlling) to "falling apart". He didn't see what the connection was between the stubbornness and falling apart.
I think that I feel more hope now because I understand this pattern very clearly. When I think that things are getting out of control I try harder to control them (i.e. stubborn). Sometimes that works and I can get things stabilized and then go on with life. But if I *can't* control what is happening there comes a time when I give up (Not that I say "I can't do this", but my unconscious (?) says that I have no more energy to try). That is when I fall apart.
So I think I have hope today because he still doesn't understand this pattern. But I can explain it to him. And then he'll understand me better and be able to help me better. Hope has to do with my ability to move in a positive direction. I either need to believe that someone can show me something new that will lead to positive change, or believe that I can explain something new to someone else so that they will have a better chance of helping me.
I have no idea if this post makes any sense to anyone but me. If it doesn't, ask questions and I'll try to be clearer.
Right now, my puppies are home and I am completely exhausted (11AM). But not hopeless.
Posted by antigua on January 18, 2004, at 10:39:07
In reply to Re: Just Checking on you » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on January 18, 2004, at 9:53:15
If it's any comfort, I've been in therapy even longer than you!! Thank you, you put into words something that often happens to me, especially when dealing w/difficult issues in therapy. This past year I have been working very hard to resolve issues with my father (now dead) and the abuse he inflicted on me as a very young girl. I really made a conscious effort that I was going to "finally get over this." But I felt I would never get over it if I couldn't remember what happened. So, I became willing to talk about anything my T suggested if it would help. The problem is that my T never pushes, she always lets me lead because she believes I have to be ready for it before I can deal w/it.
I totally opened myself up and made myself so very, very vulnerable because I was convinced I had to do this in order to get "over it."
In making myself so vulnerable I left myself totally unprotected. I got involved w/another therapist, a CBT guy, (I've posted about this horrible experience before)and made the same decision to open up and trust (what a mistake!).
I tried for months to at least access what I thought I needed to know in order to move forward (this was before I tried EMDR). I was trying so hard, and my CBT T kept telling me I was in too much denial. We battled back and forth because I believed in myself, as did my regular T.
I finally got to a breaking point. I kept telling my therapists that it was coming but they didn't understand what I meant at all. I told them I either had to resolve this now or I was going to have to bury it again, or die. My CBT guy looked at me like I was crazy; he didn't understand why I only had three choices: to resolve the issue, to bury it, or to die. To die was to be the final act of being so overwhelmed that I couldn't live w/it anymore.
It all sounded perfectly reasonable to me. Those were my only options, my only acceptable coping mechanisms. While this may seem to many to be absolute thinking, it was true for me and I know it was right. These are my defenses that I had to learn to survive.
So, since I didn't want to die, I had to bury it. I had hoped that this time I would resolve it, but it isn't to be.
I haven't given up, of course, and I'm sure another outside crisis will hit that will bring me back to the same place. But, I will have to be ready.
Sorry for being so long. What I'm trying to say is no matter what your T says about being stubborn and then falling apart, these have been your coping mechanism. You aren't failing therapy, you are working to protect yourself until you're really ready (said from someone who keeps thinking she's ready but never is) to deal w/your issues. Don't feel bad, you can only take the risks that you and your mind are ready for.
Good luck, and believe in yourself. You know yourself better than anyone else.
antigua
Posted by Karen_kay on January 18, 2004, at 12:42:08
In reply to Re: Just Checking on you » fallsfall, posted by DaisyM on January 18, 2004, at 1:08:08
I'm sorry to hear that sometimes things aren't always teaparties and pink dresses for you. I wish they were. If you like, I can tell you a little bit of what I know about hope....
*I keep journals. I have aobut 2 years worth of journals, so when I'm feeling down, I go through my journals and read how much I've accomplished throughout the past few years. It helps to see the different places and mood states I've been in when I'm feeling hopeless. I know that I've felt hopeless in the past and somehow I've managed to dust myself off and try things again.
*I look at the things I've accomplished and what I'm doing with my life. I'm going to school, with no help from my mother. I've worked hard to get a partial scholarship, had to sit out to save money, and wracked up quite a bit in loans. But I know that when I'm through with school (Will that day ever come??? :) my career will be so very rewarding! Look at what you've accomplished hun! I'm sure you're not coming up short anywhere!
*I try to take a realistic view of my life and the good things I do. Also, when I feel depressed or hopeless, I write thank you cards to send to people who have helped me. This amounts to thank you cards every two weeks :) But, my hair dresser, the blood bank, mail carrier, therapist, sisters, ect. they enjoy them and it makes me feel so much better knowing that someone is feeling appreciated. (I used to complain to my therapist that I was selfish for using thank you cards to help lift my moods but he finally convinced me it wasn't selfish. It works, I'm telling you!)
Try to make a list of nice things you do, that you don't even notice. You're SO supportive here. You're working hard in therapy and soon that will pay off. You have a support system here that's willing to be here for you. Try to think ofthose things when you're feeling hopeless. Girl, you even work on your days off! If that's not determination, I don't know what is!
Posted by femlite on January 18, 2004, at 13:28:57
In reply to Re: Just Checking on you fallsfall, posted by antigua on January 18, 2004, at 10:39:07
antigua
can you tell if you liked or found effective EMDR?
I start soon and know no one who has tried it.
(thank you for letting me butt in here)
> I tried for months to at least access what I thought I needed to know in order to move forward (this was before I tried EMDR). I was trying so hard, and my CBT T kept telling me I was in too much denial. We battled back and forth because I believed in myself, as did my regular T.
Posted by DaisyM on January 18, 2004, at 20:09:41
In reply to Re: Just Checking on you » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on January 18, 2004, at 9:53:15
You make perfect sense...I can see digging in your heels to keep from falling over. I think it is interesting that he is seeing a pattern that you've known about...now can you figure out if you want/need to change it? Or does it prevent you from changing something else?
I also think that we have to guard against allowing anyone to make us feel like our coping strategies are bad. One of the things I really like about my Therapist is that when I am having a really hard time, he usually asks me how I have coped in the past, or he suggests ways of coping now. He acknowledges that it might not be totally authentic but if it gets you through, and isn't self destructive, it is ok.
I will remind you that you can't fail therapy. It says so in the books. A client's success is due to the client but their failures are due to the Therapist and/or process. (Yalom, I think).
I'm glad you are feeling more hopeful. I hope tomorrow goes well.
Posted by DaisyM on January 18, 2004, at 20:18:43
In reply to Re: Just Checking on you Daisy! » DaisyM, posted by Karen_kay on January 18, 2004, at 12:42:08
I work to escape my life, I am successful at work. And every once in awhile, I make a difference there.
At home, I can't cure all that ails, and I can't fix the problems and I can't escape them for any length of time. Which goes against everything I stand for: solving problems is what I do.
I'm working on accepting this...it is really hard. I'm working on the fact that sometimes I'm just gonna feel sad for no real reason, no precipitating event. Like grocery shopping.
I like your list. Those are all good strategies. I like to write things out too. It does help to reread them. I like to put together care packages for my son away at school. He says I'm a cool mom because I send him Dingdongs and Handisnacks.
I appreciate how strongly and consistantly you reach out. It helps.
Posted by antigua on January 18, 2004, at 22:16:41
In reply to Re: Just Checking on you fallsfall » antigua, posted by femlite on January 18, 2004, at 13:28:57
Yes, I've found EMDR to be very helpful to me. As I've posted before, it has enabled me to actually feel what I felt like as a young girl before, during and after the abuse I suffered at the hands of my father. I can feel the fear, the loneliness and the hopelessness (shame has never been a problem, I can access that at anytime). I can't explain to you how I know I'm feeling it, but as I go through reciting the snippets of memory I have, I can feel again. It's not pleasant, but it puts me in touch w/that little girl.
It hasn't helped me too much w/memories though. It has helped clarify some, but it hasn't opened up any new ones really.
Part of the therapy is to replace negative thoughts about myself w/more positive images, but I'm not very good at that.
I've been about 10 times. I think I'm almost finished; I don't know how much more helpful it can be. I haven't had any major "breakthroughs" or broken down in misery, but I do understand that little girl and how she felt about her parents so much better.
If you have any questions feel free to contact me. I'm happy to share anything that might be helpful to you.
antigua
Posted by femlite on January 20, 2004, at 13:16:48
In reply to EMDR femlite » femlite, posted by antigua on January 18, 2004, at 22:16:41
Thank you for your reply.
One of the disorders I struggle with is EXTREME sensory sensitivity. Sounds bother me, light bothers me, smells can make me ill.
A friend of mine who is studying trauma told me that this sensory condition I have is a classic trauma symptom.
My body contnues to live in a hyper awareness mode not recongnizing the abuse is past.Have you had any similar symptoms?
My hope is EMDR will help my senses to "stand down" once my psyche processes some of this emotional baggage.
Does this sound familiar to you?
Posted by antigua on January 20, 2004, at 14:48:04
In reply to Re: EMDR femlite » antigua, posted by femlite on January 20, 2004, at 13:16:48
Absolutley. I am especially sensitive to smells. I'm hypervigilant all the time and I also have that "startle response" in which I am always on edge.
Today in EMDR we worked (again) on moving my fear through my body. It's trapped. My fear literally paralyzes me (I couldn't move my arms or legs for a long time, no matter how much my mind said to move!). I still can't move the fear through. This is a big part of EMDR--moving feelings through your body and out--as is replacing negative beliefs about yourself w/more positive ones through visualization. That part was fun today. My T was trying to convince me that my father deserves the lion's share of my feelings of shame and humiliation and that as a child I had taken on his. As an adult, I visualized giving it back to him. I envisioned cutting a pie into thirds and giving him 2/3 of the shame & humiliation and leaving 1/3 for me; then, I watched my third slowly dissipate into nothingness. Sounded good, but I don't know if I believe it yet. I think the idea is that if my piece of the pie isn't too big, then I will believe I can handle it. As it is now, I fear (like a child) that my fear & anger would overwhelm me if I let it out and then I would lose control.
Like I said, I'd be interested in how other people use EMDR. I don't have a clue if I'm even doing it right! But whatever I'm doing, it is definitely helping as an adjunct to my talk therapy.
antigua
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