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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Medusa on December 29, 2003, at 7:25:04
So I'm in this short-term therapy:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20030925/msgs/265933.html
So far, it's working really, really well.
But last time, I asked exactly which systemic therapy approach they align themselves with, and they gave me the name of an institute where I had a pretty bad experience. Not even my therapy - I just went with my then-SO. I think I need to tell my therapy team about this, but I don't know how to go about it, and I'm really, really afraid that they'll just defend the offender.
Here's what happened in the other institute:
My then-SO had left his family's business, and wanted help finding a new "place" in his family. Well, the therapist -who turned out to be the director of the institute- had dollar signs flashing in his eyes, and wouldn't let go of the idea of the family business as a client. Every other sentence that came out of his mouth was about what great businesses he'd helped, the piles of money they were fighting over that he had to sort out, and how fabulous he was. He was helpful in some ways, but he was clearly more interested in gaining a corporate client than he was in the people sitting right in front of him. Once he figured out that 1) then-SO wasn't going to refer the business to him, and 2) even if he had, the business wasn't flashy, he blatantly neglected the client's interests.Well, a donkey's a donkey, and I hadn't let it bother me too much.
Until this past session in my own therapy.
Of course, the bad treatment by the other therapist brings up a lot of crap. The end of a marriage, in which I'd made a LOT of compromises "for the business", and the man didn't have the cajones to stand up to his own family, so any time they said boo to me, I was supposed to kneel. The fact that this so-called family was so enthralled with themselves, thought they were big-biz, but their competitors and "friends" didn't treat them well at all, and I was +married+ to that. Very, very bad judgement on my part. Ick. (Given, it's a foreign country, but married partners deserve each other, no handicaps granted.)
Anyway, I don't want to lose an extremely productive therapy over this. But it's standing in the way of my progress. I guess I have to go back to the why-do-therapists-try-to-get-away-with-murder-with-me question.
Posted by Poet on December 29, 2003, at 12:07:25
In reply to therapists sticking up for one another, posted by Medusa on December 29, 2003, at 7:25:04
Hi Medusa,
I can totally understand your fear that your current team will stick up for what I'll call the Unethical Institute because of the affiliation with them. I don't have an answer as to why your therapists try to get away with murder. I wish I did.
If it were me I would tell the team that "when I found out you are affiliated with Unethical Institute it triggered bad memories of couples therapy I had there. I need to talk about my experience."
You need to talk about it, you need to release the pain. I'll keep my fingers crossed that your team is on your side.
Let me know what happens.
Poet
Posted by Lyrical13 on January 1, 2004, at 11:25:22
In reply to Re: therapists sticking up for one another » Medusa, posted by Poet on December 29, 2003, at 12:07:25
It could be that your current therapist doesn't have first-hand knowledge with Unethical Institute...may just know of them by reputation or familiarity with the name. Maybe hasn't heard first-hand experience from folks who've been treated there. I agree with previous person's post on bringing up issue in tx. I had a very bad hospitalization experience and this caused me to be very wary of meds, pdocs, etc in general. Finally in 1996 my endocrinologist urged me to go to a pdoc who was a friend of hers because she said I had more than blood sugar and thyroid problems...it seemd like there were brain chemical problems too (panic attacks were the symptom at the time) Best thing I ever did for myself and have been in treatment since.
Unfortunately, it's difficult as mental health patients to always trust that you will be believed. THere are people who will be skeptical of what you say because of your mental health issues. Those folks are turkeys. It's hard to stick your neck out when you don't know if your tx is one of the turkeys or someone you can trust to believe you and help you vs taking Unethical Institutes side.
I have been struggling with this for 10 years. I just recently told my therapist about past bad hospital experience and to my relief she said it sounded like I was a victim of a very unethical and bad practice (basically, I was in a hospital for exactly 30 days (what my insurance covered) in a place that later was under FBI investigation for insurance fraud. Really. My dad got a letter (his insurance paid for the hospitalization...I was a college student at the time) This was in TX at a time when I was hearing stories of Psych Institutes in TX and CA who were admitting pts just to get their insurance money even when they really didn't need to be admitted. When people are putting you on antipsychotics and accusing you of being paranoid and you say that you shouldn't be there etc etc, it's very hard to make folks believe you. Very distressing and frightening experience. But I played the game. Took my meds and went to my groups and decided "what the heck. I'm stuck here...might as well process some stuff about my parents divorce, etc etc" After I got out I got off the meds (they had me on Lithium...which really whacked my system, an AP called Navane, Benedryl for the side effects of Navane (closed up my throat, felt like I was choking) and then even tried to get me to take a med for sleeping when I was already knocked out from teh other meds and falling into bed exhausted by 7 or 8pm. Very scary since the person in the room next to me was recovering narcotics addict, alcoholic, borderline personality and was friends with another person in there with multiple personalities.. a couple of his personalities were satanic and they wanted to kill my next-door-neighbor...I was afraid he would get the wrong room and kill me. Thankfully he was soon shippped off to the state hospital.
But I digress. The bottom line is, there are unethical people and practices out there. Some folks won't believe you but some will. I've been through a lot of tx to deal with trauma from my whole hospital ordeal. (BTW, the way I got admitted was that I passed out due to crashing from low blood sugar...was hallucinating and saying some crazy things...went into teh ER by ambulance and woke up a couple hours after I had passed out..not sure how long I was out but I do remember feeling when the IV was put in my hand and starting to come around after I was in the hospital. Still not sure what exactly happened to me because recordds have been "lost". Sheriff and CMH pressured me to admit myself to psych hospital. I was by myself at college an hour away from home...the dorms were closing down (I was an RA and was one of the last few folks there helping to shut down the dorm) everyone was leaving..moving home...hospital staff told me that my mom's line was disconnected (even though I had just talked to her at that number the day before) ....here I was by myself with nowhere to go...these 2 authority figures are telling me that if I don't check myself in to psych hospital the judge will admit me and I won't be able to get out...eventually reluctantly checked myself in...amazingly, when they gave me a sandwich I started to feel much better and my head started to clear....)
Anyway, sorry to get off on such a tangent. I meant this post to be short and sweet and helpful to you by relating that I had a bad hospital experience and I WAS believed my mental health professionals eventually. Now I feel like crying. A doc I had at one point thought I had PTSD...if I do, it's probably the result of that whole month...actually several months following that...of hell. Very sad now. Will go find my husband for hugs and reassurance and talk about this in tx next week.
L13
Posted by naiad on January 1, 2004, at 12:03:24
In reply to Re: therapists sticking up for one another, posted by Lyrical13 on January 1, 2004, at 11:25:22
L,
Your story is truly shocking! I am outraged at what you went through. Are you as angry at the people who put you in the hospital and the unethical hospital personnel as I am? ... I couldn't really tell. I hope you don't find that to be an insulting question because it might be obvious that, of course, you are angry.
My best to you and your recovery...
Posted by Lyrical13 on January 1, 2004, at 15:30:44
In reply to Re: therapists sticking up for one another, posted by naiad on January 1, 2004, at 12:03:24
yes I am extremely angry and upset. That is probably why since writing that post today I've been a bit sad and a little weepy. It happened over 10 years ago and still affects me very much. I have told very few people about it and I'm always worried that people won't believe what I say. That they'll think that I was the problem and that I belonged in a psych hospital. the whole experience has made me doubt myself and my thoughts/feelings etc. For a long time I had several big questions...and still do to some extent although now I know that the system and that hospital were FUBARed and not me...I did and do have psych problems (depression/anxiety and apparently BP2) but those problems have been much worse since that experience. I think it hurt me more than helped me. I felt completely violated as if I had been raped. There was a period of time that's lost...I passed out at about 4pm. I transferred to the psych hospital at around 10pm. I was probably awake and arguing with sheriff and CMH folks for a couple hours before that so that leaves from about 4-8pm that I have no idea what happened. And I haven't been able to get any answers. I was working with a counselor after that and trying to figure out what happened to me so that I could heal and go on (as much as possible) but had difficulty getting my hands on hospital records. First of all I was in 3 different hospitals. First ER in Denton TX. Then to Twin Lakes in Denton which was nearby psych facility (I'm very nervous about giving actual names but it will make story easier to tell than for reader to try to figure out which hospital I'm talking about when I mention hospital A,B,C etc...I'm still worried about telling people my "Secret". feel a lot of shame about this...probably similar to what a rape or other abuse victim feels. crying again.
I need to get this out though. I've talked about this in counseling a lot...but various counselors. Every year in college there was a differnt counselor cause it was all psych students. Didn't get a consistent counselor till I moved back to my home state (MI) and was in grad school and having problems. Since 1996 there have only been 2 different counselors.. one I had since 96 off and on and a new one that I just started with this fall.
Anyway, back to my story.... my mom was out of town with her boyfriend at the time...a really weird guy that I barely knew and didn't trust. It was May 1992...Mother's Day weekend. Lots of crap going on leading up to this whole experience but basically my car was broken down, I was supposed to move out of dorm 10/9 which was Saturday but had no idea how I was going to do that with a dead car. Mom was only family in TX (all other family in MI) and she asked me (well, it wasn't REALLY a question) "You don't mind if I go out of town for Mother's Day with (whatever his name was) do you?" Well, I did mind but I was trying to prove my independence.. that I would be OK if she up and moved to Boston even though I had one more year of college... that I could figure things out on my own. After all, I was 23..that's how old she was when she had me and I SHOULD be able to deal with this, right? (just a little sarcasm there) I knew if I objected I'd get the "moms are people too, don't be so selfish" speech...so basically when I went into the hospital Sat night and then transferred to psych hospital late that night (10/9/92) no one in my family knew where I was. That was very scary too. I was afraid I'd be locked away and stuck there and no one would be able to find me and get me out of there. A couple people I worked with knew where I was but I didn't know who to trust at that point. ON the morning of 10/10 (mother's day) they started a glucose tolerance test...living hell... I was in the middle of a major blood sugar reaction and the aftermath of that test when my mom arrived to get me out of there. I dont' remember how she knew I was there. But basically her friend was a nurse at another psych hospital and she told my mom to get me out of there..it was a bad place. In order to get me out, she had to get me transferred to a different psych hospital...she did that by telling the folks there that it was closer to her house...the one I was at was 45 min away or so...I had to sign papers signing myself into the 3rd hospital (HCA Richmond) in orderto get out of the first one. The whole time my head is spinning and I'm trying to concentrate on the pt rights papers...I was thikning "always read it before you sign it" I couldn't concentrate to save my life and my mom was telling me to hurry up (for some reason, even though they told me that if I checked myself in I could check myself out the story changed and they said the judge said I had to stay there...but it was the weekend...what judge?)
Anyway, then I was in the 3rd hospital (which was the 2nd psych hospital) for a month total including inpatient and outpatient. A week after I left teh first hospital it closed...insurance fraud. They lost the results to the GTT so I had to go through that mess again but at least I knew a little bit more what to expect. Never could get any paperwork from that place. Oh and I blame that experience for how long it's taken to figure out that I'm BP2. Why? Because the doc there YELLED at me...he saw me all of 30 min at about 10 or 11 at night after I had passed out from LBS. He hardly even looked at me..sat way across the room from me like I was some pariah. They gave me a sandwich and wonder of wonders, my head started to clear and I started to be able to think and talk more clearly. Well, the next day after I'd already been poked and probed by various docs and nurses, I saw the psychiatrist in his office. He informed me that I was bipolar. I told him that he didn't understand and that I had low blood sugar and it can mimic different things and he cut me off and said I had to listen to him. He got right in my face and screamed at me that I had to listen to him. I yelled that I didn't have to listen to him and stormed out of the room. Well, then at HCA Richmond, I was put on Lithium and that pdoc who was much nicer, but talked to me like I was a raving lunatic, put me on all kinds of other meds. I had every possible medical test you could imagine. That was scary..no one ever told me I was going to be having any tests...I'd never been in any hospital overnight for anyuthing let alone a psych hospital...people are showing up with various tests to do to me and I had no idea if they had the right person or what they were going to do...EMG, EKG, EEG, MRI, GTT, physical, etc etc. EEG was the scariest one because the machine looked ancient and I wondered if it operated correctly. Looked like it had a loose wire or something and could short out and shock me...
Meanwhile, my mom is buddy buddy with the nurse there and knows other people and she's shoving the BP dx down my throat. (she's an RN and "knows everything") So all these years I've had these questions...am I really crazy? Did I have a psychotic break? Am I really manic depressive? What really happened to me? Did I just pass out or did I almost die? (had one of those tunnel of light experiences when I passed out..still don't really know what that was...)
In the back of my mind I've always wondered if I was BP but at the same time I was really afraid that I was...didn't want to be....didn't want that &*$@## doc and my mom to be right. And I didn't think I was ever really manic. Depression and anxiety were/are my big problems. This new doc I have I really like and am starting to trust. He explained everything to me like I was an intelligent competent adult able to make my own decisions. Treats me with dignity and respect not just as the patient but as part of the team...and IMHO I am the most important member of the team...I'm the only one who really knows how I feel...I'm the best expert on my body. He says he thinks it's BP2..which I didnt' even know existed. And the more I read about it, the more I think he's right. If someone had told me this a few years ago, it would have been very traumatic for me. But I'm in a better place now. I can accept it now. But I wonder if I could have accepted it years ago and have avoided a lot of pain and hardship if I hadn't had that awful experience. I guess we'll never know. And all I can do now is go on from here. I know in my heart that it was wrong what happened to me. That the system was sick...even though I do have a mental health disorder...a mood disorder..I'm OK. I'm a good person and each day, each year, I get closer to mental health with the help of my pdoc, therapist, husband and some of my family and oh yeah...medication....big help.
but thanks for your concern. It actually does make me feel good that someone else is as outraged...that someone else thinks that it was a bad situation...it validates my perceptions and makes me feel less "crazy". ...crying again. I supposed PMS isn't helping this situation any! :)
Well, I need to get offline here pretty quick. My sister is having a rough day too and I need to be here for her. She is supposed to come over for a little "PJ party" tonight, which I'm looking forward to. I have lots to do to get the guest room ready for her!
thanks again
L13
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