![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TexasChic on November 18, 2003, at 10:47:11
I've been researching and trying to find out more about my problems and how to help myself. The thing I keep running into that leaves me confused is the difference between a manic and a compulsive episode. How do I know if I am a compulsive shopper, or if my uncontrollable shopping spree is part of a manic episode. And how do I know if my panic attacks or extreme bouts of anxiety aren't actually manic episodes. I read about cycling and it seems to fit with my ups and downs. But yet I've only been diagnosed as with depression and anxiety. Do they even know how to tell the difference? I've been asked the question about extreme highs and feelings of grandiose, which I always respond to with a no. But what if what I am feeling could be described that way, but just not by my definition of those words. I hope this makes some kind of sense. I read this article in the Psychiatric Times that questioned the definition of mood swings and the use of mood stabilizers. It was very enlightening, but just left me even more confused about what treatment I should be pursuing. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks for listening (or reading).
Posted by Dr. Rod on November 18, 2003, at 18:19:44
In reply to Question about Manic and Compulsive Episodes, posted by TexasChic on November 18, 2003, at 10:47:11
My PhD is in education so I am motivated to help you learn... Manic is usually accompanied with dillusional... Study the works of Penrose, Penfield, and D'Masio... You will find that your "gut" is running your show for either manic or panic... Your "gut" can't think... You think, or else you don't think, Right? If you are obligated to "nouns", (people, places, things, ideas), you can be afraid of thought. I coined the label "cogniphobia" for this condition. I also see "cogniphobia" as the common thread through all anxiety, phobia, and depression... You might say, "I think all the time!!! That's what seems to get me in trouble; my thinking!!!" However, if you look around you when you are in a panic, you are usually sitting somewhere safe and warm panicking over something that "might" happen or (even worse) somehing that already happened... What evokes the fear is thinking about the action, not the action itself... So, if you objectively can see yourself across the room sitting comfortably and safe, it will suddenly seem silly to be fretting and compulsing about something not happening here and right now... You discover your fear is about a story, not an event; a story you are telling yourself about the event, not the event itself. I have seen this technique of teaching help an acrophobic who couldn't rent a hotel room above the ground floor, in 8 (eight) minutes be able to goto the 10th floor by elevator, open the patio door, go to the railing and look down!!! (I've witnessed this more than once)... Please read D'Masio if you can't find any of the others; "DeCarte's Error"... Lucinda Basset has also helped thousands of people... Seek out her book and/or tapes...
Posted by Speaker on November 18, 2003, at 23:13:33
In reply to Manic vs Panic, posted by Dr. Rod on November 18, 2003, at 18:19:44
Dr. Rob,
I appreciate education and am always willing to learn. I am an educator myself. However, I am wondering if you think that all we need to solve our problems is more education...is that what I'm hearing?
Posted by Dr. Rod on November 19, 2003, at 1:05:34
In reply to Re: Manic vs Panic, posted by Speaker on November 18, 2003, at 23:13:33
What we learn can be clues to how we can update our motives... If learning were an event and not a process, I could see how you might be concerned... Also, a process is not defined by a series of incidental events, so don't sit around bored and wait up late nights for that ephemeral event called learning... Try this... Suspend all opinions (yours and others) for 24 hours... I hope you do discover which opinions are yours and which are "overlays"... You can't if your curiosity is stultified...
Posted by sadmom on November 19, 2003, at 8:41:59
In reply to Question about Manic and Compulsive Episodes, posted by TexasChic on November 18, 2003, at 10:47:11
I happen to know a lot about bipolar disorder because I have 3 children who have it. Do you always feel like shopping or does it depend on your mood? If you always feel like shopping, I would think it is OCD related. If it is related to your mood, it might be BPII. With bipolar disorder, you might get into mission mode, when all you can think about is buying a particular item. My son is currently obsessed with buying Pokemon cards and his meds are not controlling his hypomania very well.
Posted by TexasChic on November 19, 2003, at 9:22:54
In reply to Re: Question about Manic and Compulsive Episodes, posted by sadmom on November 19, 2003, at 8:41:59
I go into an occasional mode where I want to go run out and buy clothes or household products. I feel this out of control feeling like I have to do this no matter what the consequences in order to escape my troubled thoughts. But it also happens when I'm just out grocery shopping and suddenly I've spent $200 instead of the $50 that would have been the normal amount for me. Maybe I have both!
Posted by TexasChic on November 19, 2003, at 9:39:34
In reply to Manic vs Panic, posted by Dr. Rod on November 18, 2003, at 18:19:44
Your post is very interesting and I can see how this could be extremely helpful to someone with a phobia or specific fear. However, a lot of people who suffer from anxiety could not tell you what's causing the feeling if their lives depended on it. Usually because the body is reacting to an old fear that isn't even around anymore – it just got used to the fight or flight mode and still goes into it whether necessary or not. When it comes to mania, well that's just chemicals in your brain you can't control. Anxiety may be either a purely chemical thing, an experience induced thing, or a combination or both. All I know for sure is doctors aren't in complete agreement on that one yet.
I would like to read the works you referenced though, education is always a positive thing. Thanks for your response.
Posted by judy1 on November 19, 2003, at 9:57:53
In reply to Question about Manic and Compulsive Episodes, posted by TexasChic on November 18, 2003, at 10:47:11
There's a great panic site:http://www.algy.com/pdi/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi
that advertises a book by Dr. Shipko that addresses this question. Basically he says that people with panic and anxiety disorders have mood swings based on how they feel- no anxiety and they're happy, have anxiety and they're depressed. There is a HUGE diffrence between obsessively shopping and having a manic episode (bipolar disorder): no need for sleep, delusions, yes, sometimes spending way too much, speaking too fast, etc. Hope this helped- judy
Posted by TexasChic on November 19, 2003, at 10:50:39
In reply to Re: Question about Manic and Compulsive Episodes » TexasChic, posted by judy1 on November 19, 2003, at 9:57:53
Wow! What a great site! I haven't really had a chance to get into it in any detail because I'm at work, but I already bookmarked it because it looks fantastic. Thanks for the info!
Posted by Dr. Rod on November 20, 2003, at 2:07:00
In reply to Re: Manic vs Panic: Dr. Rod, posted by TexasChic on November 19, 2003, at 9:39:34
I quote: "I've been researching and trying to find out more about my problems and how to help myself." (What you said in your initial post of this thread...)
I have been given a gift over the past six years that I can pass onto you and other sufferers... I may have earned the right to participate in that groundbreaking study which gave me this gift by my dedication and hard work... Most important though is for sufferers to become aware of the tools they have always possessed to harness their "demons"...
Why I would never charge for this is included in the nature of this WEB site... We are not self help... We are shared help... We share...
To that end, I quote you, "However, a lot of people who suffer from anxiety could not tell you what's causing the feeling if their lives depended on it." I must point out that most mental health professionals are also baffled by the symptoms and continue to "dumb down" their clients with "meds"... Ask your therapist or professional to explain their notion of a common thread in panic, phobias, and depression...
Like I said, it's "Cogniphobia", being tooooo frightened of the mental image (thought) of the scary stuff to have optional outcomes... This "Outcome Thinking" is presented in a soon to be released set of works called "The Aesthetic View" by David Peck LCSW, and David Purvis LCSW... If the tought is toooo scary, and the scary stuff isn't even happenning, why can't you find optional outcomes??? Answer: You have baggage you remain obligated to... I will give you a hint that if you identify and suspend all opinions for 24 hours, you will have a better idea which opinions are yours and which ones you are obligated to that were foisted on you by someone else... Don't be toooo surprised to find most are should's and don'ts from the morality of your childhood...
Going against your obligations can strike terror into your heart, and you won't know how or why... Panic can set in... The objective view of yourself in a panic state will extinguish the panic... Only the person in the panic can feel the panic --- but wait, if you are across the room out of body looking at yourself in the objective view of yourself, from this position you feel no panic... So what's the deal...
Try the objective view of yourself if you can...
Posted by judy1 on November 20, 2003, at 9:25:31
In reply to Re: Manic and Compulsive Episodes: Judy1, posted by TexasChic on November 19, 2003, at 10:50:39
you're very welcome- check out the FAQs when you get a chance. take care- judy
Posted by TexasChic on November 20, 2003, at 9:38:20
In reply to Re: Re: Manic vs Panic: Dr. Rod » TexasChic, posted by Dr. Rod on November 20, 2003, at 2:07:00
I appreciate your sharing the benefit of your experience. Once again I will say it sounds quite interesting and I do intend to pursue more information relating to it. However, I must say I take offense to your remark that 'most mental health professionals ... "dumb down" their clients with "meds"'. I think this is a dangerous and unfortunately common misconception that anti anxiety meds do nothing but make you numb, and anti depressants are happy pills. There are in fact chemicals in your brain that control these emotions, and if they are out of whack, no amount of meditating or introspective self discipline is going to change that. But the correct meds can put you back in balance so that you can be 'normal', meaning: you get sad, happy, anxious, nervous, and every other emotion, but you just don't get stuck there for no apparent reason. Anyway, that's just my opinion, and you are of course intitled to yours. I just ask that you don't refer to other people's choice of treatment as 'dumbing down'.
Posted by shar on November 20, 2003, at 19:32:59
In reply to Question about Manic and Compulsive Episodes, posted by TexasChic on November 18, 2003, at 10:47:11
If I were you, I would find out information about Bipolar II, which is pretty distinct from Bipolar I. In addition, I would make sure that any person who attempted to diagnose me knew ALL of my symptoms. Whether it was over spending, over sexing, over partying, OR depression that was paralyzing and kept me in bed for days, weeks, or months..........
So often, BP II folks are diagnosed with depression because that is their 'presenting problem' but the pdoc or whomever is in charge doesn't take a Complete history (that might include manic or hypomanic episodes).
All I can say is, tell them everything. I am not BP II. But, if you have periods of depression along with partying and fun and buying sprees and lotsa sex and parties, or any of the above.....versus other symptoms............ that may help with your dx.
I wish you the best of luck. Manic and depressive episodes pretty much go together. If you don't have ANY depression, that is important to say.
Shar
Posted by Dr. Rod on November 20, 2003, at 21:27:12
In reply to Re: Re: Manic vs Panic: Dr. Rod, posted by TexasChic on November 20, 2003, at 9:38:20
My interest is learning how people think so that they can "KNOW"... Please accept my apology if I spoke out-of-school... I don't take "meds" or drugs or alcohol (notice I left out CHEESECAKE), so I must rely on reports from anyone willing to report... Please also notice that I never used the word "numb"; I used the word "dumb", since the "meds" do distract your body from doing its job... If your mind can create the out of balance chemically as discovered 4 years ago by D'Masio, then I insist that your body can take you back to balance if you give it a chance...
The mistake I made with you is I forgot to explain that your mind controls all, all of your body functions whether you see, feel, touch, smell, or taste the function or not... Balance is very powerful but misunderstood when coupled with sight... Balance is a sense just like sight and smell... My point is that just because you don't do something with balance, doesn't mean in the bigger scheme of things that balance is not important...
Your "gut" is another issue... A person's "gut" must be managed or it can mess you up terribly... Upsetness over some tragedy for as short as four hours can leave you exhausted... Does you body chemistry suffer under this assault from the "gut"??? of course it does... If you assault your body during your entire childhood with stress, who knows what your chemical imbalances can be... (unless someone has a computer joystick hooked up to your body, then all the antagonism in the world can not cause you stress without you causing it to happen --- you are responsible for everything that happens to you --- no one else has the clicker to start and stop your body)
The book about the "gut" that started many people thinking was "The Second Brain" by Michael Gershon covers the topic carefully... What happens to an otherwise sane person under massive stress over several years... They crack... Sometimes they never ever return... I insist (again) that you have a better chance than that... If you distract the body from its many tasks, you are "dumbing it down", making it less smart (not numb) than it has to be to do its job...
Can you please revisit my notion that the mental health community doesn't seem to be interested in a cure, since cure is supposed to be impossible??? This is not opinions that I want to sell... An opinion is only a story about what happened, not what happened...
We are busy developing strategies and techniques for a "CURE" not just some promise that life might be better if you do it our way... You want to be cured don't you??? Well, we want you cured, and soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by justyourlaugh on November 20, 2003, at 22:11:56
In reply to Please accept my apology » TexasChic, posted by Dr. Rod on November 20, 2003, at 21:27:12
dr rob..
where are the "i feel " statements..
i feel your posts are very dangerous and can cause alot of harm..
you can have your own thoughts about "meds" ..
never never never ,,ask someone to embrace them..you are not "their doctor"..
"i feel " you shouldnt be insulting those of us who do take meds..and i am very certain most of us are highly intelligent about their own bodies and have weighed the options..
i would be dead without medical intervention...
Posted by Dr. Rod on November 20, 2003, at 22:31:07
In reply to Re: Please accept my apology » Dr. Rod, posted by justyourlaugh on November 20, 2003, at 22:11:56
I was told not to post to you so I'm not.........................
Posted by Dr. Rod on November 21, 2003, at 3:28:00
In reply to Re: Re: Manic vs Panic: Dr. Rod, posted by TexasChic on November 20, 2003, at 9:38:20
*********This was posted by Dr Bob************
In reply to Re: Everyone - Interested in when these darn SE's stop » Dr. Jill, posted by Moderndayfreak on November 19, 2003, at 20:34:33
> Forget Lexapro... Couldn't deal with the side effects. I did some research and started taking 5 htp and b complex. I had WAY to much insomnia with lexapro not to mention some way out nightmares. I haven't had any anxiety attacks but when I wake up I am dizzy for awhile. I notice as long as I eat food and hydrated, I'm good to go. I can't walk for a long time because I get really really tired and dizzy. but NO FRICKEN anxiety attacks, not any bad ones at least. 5 htp is suppose to help your body make more serontonin (which lexapro is suppose to) and for me to actually get some sleep I took melatonin. I slept the longest in 4 days- 8 hours.
>
> I also thought I share this information with this forum. Check it out. It's really something to think about:
>
>
> ================================================
> Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Luvox, and Similar Drugs
> Vital Information
>
> The information presented here is factual, not theoretical. Where a theory is proposed, it is based on documented fact. All of this data comes from respected physicians and researchers who have chosen to inform the public of the truth about these drugs.
>
> Recently, a man in Boston, Massachusetts got up from his desk, calmly walked into the Human Resources Department of his internet software company and shot seven people to death. Reports that he was on an antidepressant drug should not come as a surprise. Virtually every violent mass murder scene in recent years has been the result of individuals on Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Luvox, and drugs of the same particular
> class. The school shooting in Littleton, Colorado involved Luvox. His wife murdered the comedian Phil Hartman after she was on Zoloft for just a few days. The Atlanta day trader who killed his family and others before killing himself was found with Prozac. There are a number of cases of parents, while on these drugs, killing their children and themselves in the most violent ways. Prozac alone has been involved in 2,500 deaths most by suicide or violence.1 That these things have happened is a fact. The behavior described may seem unreal. After you read what follows, you will understand exactly what these drugs do that causes such behavior.
>
> Important: a person wanting to get off of any of these drugs should taper off gradually with good nutrition and specific amino acids. Tapering off gradually can lessen the severity of the withdrawal symptoms that can last for weeks or months and may include overwhelming depression, insomnia, fatigue, violent outbursts and others.
>
> Background
>
> The brain is by far the most complex organ of the body and its mechanisms and actions and their relation to behavior and thought are simply not known with certainty. According to Fred A. Baughman, Jr., MD, a highly respected neurologist and expert in the field, theories of chemical imbalances causing problems are and have always been just theories. Further, no actual chemical imbalance in a "mentally ill" person's brain has ever been proven to exist, nor has a normal chemical balance ever been identified.2 Talk of brain abnormalities causing mental illness is simply more theory that has never been scientifically proven. In fact, Dr. Baughman has carefully studied research that is reported as indicating that brain abnormalities cause mental illnesses like ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder). According to Dr, Baughman, these studies actually prove that psychiatric drugs cause brain abnormalities since the only individuals with the brain abnormalities are those who have been on the drugs. As amazing as this may sound, the concept that chemical imbalances and brain abnormalities cause mental illness has been talked about over the years to the point that it is just accepted as true. This concept has been promoted because it creates a huge market for companies and industries that claim to have a drug that supposedly fixes the imbalance or abnormality.3 The market for such drugs is in the billions of dollars.
>
> Altering Brain Function
>
> So, what is the danger? The danger is that these drugs have been proven to alter normal activities in the brain and can cause bizarre behavior and even permanent damage in what was, prior to the drugs, a normally functioning system. An easily observable example is tardive dyskinesia, an abnormality causing a person to have uncontrollable movements and spasms of muscles in the body or face. This is an abnormality particularly attributed to a class of psychiatric drugs called neuroleptics that include Haldol, Thorazine, and Mellaril. These uncontrollable twitches, spasms and writhing movements are usually permanent and irreversible.4 This condition has been proven to occur at the amazing rate of five percent per year for patients exposed to this particular class of drugs for 3 months or more. After 5 years of exposure, at least 25 percent of patients will be afflicted. Most long-term patients will eventually develop this malady.5
>
> Those mental institution patients that you've seen in movies or documentaries with weird repetitive movements of body parts have this affliction. They did not have it before being put on the drugs at the institution. The very thing that makes them appears the most crazy was caused by the drugs! Considering the level of occurrence of tardive dyskinesia and the ease of observing it, surely measures would be taken to warn of the dangers of these drugs, right? These drugs started being given to patients in the 1950's and the FDA required no such warnings until 1985. Millions of people are now permanently afflicted with TD. It took the FDA 30 years to require a uniform warning for such an obvious, easily observable occurrence.6 What did the drug companies and doctors prescribing these drugs say about the weird, uncontrollable movements? They said it was just part of the patients' mental illnesses.7 In other words, crazy people act weirdly. Now, when a person on Prozac murders his friends and himself, they say that depressed people do these things. They are not telling the truth. There have been more adverse reaction reported on Prozac than any drug in history. There have been 2,500 deaths, most due to suicide or violence.8 Companies like Eli Lilly, which makes over 100 million dollars per month on Prozac, do not want you to know what follows.
>
> How Prozac Affects the Brain
>
> In a person's brain are substances that enable the transmission of nerve impulses from one nerve cell (neuron) to another. These substances are called neurotransmitters. One of the main neurotransmitters is called serotonin. These neurotransmitters are released from the end of one neuron and travel across the small space between neurons to special receptors of the other neuron. In this way, impulses are carried from one nerve to another in the brain as a part of normal function. This process is highly complex and not
> fully understood involving billions of nerve cells. Prozac alters the normal functioning of this system. Prozac is in the class of drugs called Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRI). "Reuptake" is the process by which excess serotonin that has been released by one neuron is taken back into the neuron that released it.
>
> Prozac blocks that process of taking back the excess serotonin (reuptake inhibitor). This causes a higher level of serotonin to remain in the space between neurons. This causes an effect initially that is not unlike that of amphetamines and cocaine.9 The difference with cocaine and amphetamines is that they not only block the reuptake of serotonin, they also block the reuptake of a couple of other neurotransmitters.10 Also, street drugs leave the body fairly quickly but Prozac accumulates in the brain to as much as 100 times the levels found in the blood and can take weeks or longer to leave the system even after the drug is discontinued.11 All of the SSRI drugs can be expected to operate the same as Prozac. One further note is that hallucinatory drugs like LSD cause many of the same observable effects on serotonin as Prozac. This would account for what many users of Prozac describe as hallucinatory experiences.12
>
> Permanent Alteration of Brain Function
>
> Changes in natural systems often cause unexpected reactions. It was originally thought that wearing a back brace all the time would lessen the occurrence of back injuries in normal people in certain types of work. In fact, this practice caused a weakening of the muscles that normally support the back and resulted in injuries.
>
> Likewise, increasing the level of serotonin as described has been shown in animal studies to be compensated for by a reduction of serotonin receptor sites (where the serotonin is received). These studies show that these receptor sites are lost permanently.13 This would indicate permanent brain damage.
> According to Peter Breggin, MD, neither the FDA nor any of the drug companies are interested in studying this issue.14
>
>
> Formerly Unexplainable Behavior
>
> In her book, Prozac: Panacea Pandora, author Ann Blake Tracy, PhD. has documented a vast number of cases of individuals on Prozac who have experienced violent thoughts and anger toward those around them unlike anything they had ever experienced before taking the drug. Some experts claim that this anger is related to the restless energy and anxiety created by the drug. Perhaps it is related to altered perceptions as many users have related LSD type experiences. Regardless, many users experience violent thoughts and anger toward those in their vicinity. This alone would account for some violence. But what about those violent acts that seem unexplainable and really beyond belief? The answer lies ahead.
>
> It has long been known that sleep is important for health. Proper functioning of serotonin in the brain is important for good sleep. The deepest level of sleep is called REM sleep, which stands for Rapid Eye Motion (the eyes move rapidly in this state). While dreams can occur in other levels of sleep, nightmares usually only occur during REM sleep.15 According to research reported by Ann Blake Tracy, Ph.D., Prozac and related drugs cause a drastic reduction in REM sleep and many individuals on Prozac start experiencing vivid nightmares. Depriving a person of enough REM sleep over time can cause the reaction of the person going into an REM sleep state while awake.16 But there is one other factor that is critical in understanding the whole picture. Normally, when asleep, the muscles are weak and more or less paralyzed. You may dream that you are running or moving, but your muscles are still. This is due to a built-in mechanism that causes a person's muscles to remain weak and still during sleep. A study in 1989 showed this paralysis of the muscles during sleep to be related to a particular neurotransmitter.17 This mechanism can apparently be bypassed by a person on drugs like Prozac and he can appear to be alert and awake but actually be in a deep sleep state.
>
> Dr. Tracy documents a case of a person on Prozac who appeared awake and alert but whose brain waves indicated he was actually in deep sleep!18 Dr. Tracy has documented cases where people in this "sleep walk" state actually had more strength and agility than when awake.
>
> Dr. Tracy has documented many cases of former users of Prozac who claim that while on the drug, everything seemed like a dream and unreal. Many users have done things that were completely out of character and have no recollection of them. Many former users liken finally getting off of the drug to waking up from a dream. What seemed to be unexplainable violent acts by individuals on Prozac are now easy to understand: 1) drug effects including altered perception cause the person to have violent thoughts and anger toward those around him, 2) he further has disrupted sleep and vivid nightmares, 3) at some point, the REM sleep deprivation forces him into an REM sleep state while awake, and 4) because of a bypass of the normal mechanism that causes the muscles to remain still during sleep, he unknowingly acts out the violence of his nightmare in a "sleep walk" state. If he does not kill himself (many of these mass murders include suicide) he will likely not even remember the incident.
>
> The Drug Approval Process ls Flawed
>
> The company seeking approval of a drug is responsible for carrying out the drug studies used for FDA (Food and Drug Administration) approval. This same company, with hundreds of millions and possibly billions at stake, chooses the facilities and doctors employed to carry out these studies and even design and oversee the studies. Is there any question that the deck is loaded? According to Peter Breggin, MD, it doesn't matter how many studies fail as long as there are 2 that can be used to show that the drug is effective.19
>
> According to Peter Breggin, MD, the studies used to get approval for Prozac were woefully inadequate and run poorly by individuals who had financial conflicts of interest. Not only were there numerous irregularities and a larger number of studies that failed rather than succeeded, but the final results had to be reworked several times in order to make them acceptable. In the final analysis, the studies used for FDA approval included a mere 286 individuals who were exposed to Prozac for a maximum of 6 weeks (even though the drug is often prescribed indefinitely).20
>
> The FDA is supposed to protect the public. The individuals involved in the drug approval process are supposed to be objective and unbiased. However, according to a USA Today report on September 25, 2000, conflicts of interest are the norm rather than the exception regarding approval of drugs. In a two-and-a-half year period, more than half of the individuals involved in drug approval decisions had financial ties to the companies or the drugs being judged! In this time period, conflict of interest restrictions were waived more than 800 times. An "expert" can be a highly paid consultant to a drug company making hundreds of thousands of dollars from that relationship and be involved in regulatory decisions regarding that drug! The amount of money involved in current, ongoing conflicts of interest in the drug approval process cannot even be known by the public. In 1992, a decision was made to keep such records secret. Prozac was under discussion at that time.21
>
> History Should Be Remembered
>
> Time and time again, a new drug is promoted as being safe and effective. Users claim great things. Before long, terrible side effects and addiction or worse result. Finally, after a long list of casualties, it becomes a controlled substance and an illegal street drug.
>
> Eli Lilly, the maker of Prozac, also produced Heroin, Methadone, and LSD.22 Heroin was supposed to be the safe alternative to Morphine. Later, Methadone was prescribed to get people off of Heroin, but it was just as addictive. LSD, initially produced for use by the CIA in mind control experiments, was promoted as being safe for psychiatric use.23 Eli Lilly also introduced Darvon in 1957 and promoted it as non-addictive.
>
> Twenty years and many deaths later, warnings were finally required. In the late 1950's, Parke, Davis & Company introduced PCP (angel dust) as a painkiller. "Medical studies" had shown that PCP had a large margin of safety.24 Valium was supposed to be safe, then found to be very addictive. Xanax was introduced as a safer drug to replace Valium, but it turned out to be even more addictive.25 The same story goes for cocaine and amphetamines - once promoted as safe and effective, now controlled substances.* * * * * Summary * * * * * * *
>>>>Important<<<<
> Prozac causes an alteration in normal brain functioning. This alteration could be irreversible. Prozac has had a larger number of adverse reaction reports than any drug in history. Such adverse reactions include attempted suicide, violence, aggression, and paranoia. There have been 2,500 deaths associated with Prozac, most through suicide or violence. Individuals on Prozac or related psychiatric drugs have carried out most of the horrendous mass murders witnessed in recent times.
>
> The formerly unexplainable violent acts committed by persons on Prozac and related drugs are understandable when one considers the following progression: 1) drug effects and altered perception cause the person to begin having violent thoughts and anger toward those around him. 2) he further has disrupted sleep and vivid nightmares. 3) at some point, the REM sleep deprivation forces him into an REM sleep state while awake. 4) and, because of a bypass of the normal mechanism that causes the muscles to remain relatively still during sleep, he unknowingly acts out the violence of his nightmare.
>
> The regulatory bodies involved in the approval of drugs like Prozac have shown themselves to be unable to adequately protect the public from dangerous drugs. Furthermore, many of the individuals involved in the drug approval process have personal financial conflicts of interest and are therefore not objective. Harmful drugs have historically been introduced by drug companies and only withdrawn when faced with enough public outcry.
>
> Natural Alternatives
>
> Amino acids and brain function go hand in hand. Amino acids create needed neurotransmitters, the chemical language of the brain, drugs do not enhance neurotransmitters, amino acids do.26 Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, and Luvox are all known SSRI’s that use available serotonin. The natural and safe way to elevate serotonin is to use the amino acid 5HTP. 5HTP can be found in the Mood Sync, HTP10, and Teen Link formulas. These formulas used when needed, plus a balanced neurotransmitter complex taken on a daily basis will supply the brain with all of the nutrients it needs.
>
> You have friends, family, or associates who are being harmed by these drugs. These drugs are being prescribed by doctors who are not informed. Please copy this document and send it to anyone who needs this information. By doing so, you will save lives! Thank you.
>
> For more information read Prozac Backlash by Joseph Glenmullen, M.D. or Overdose by Jay Cohen, M.D.
>
> This education information is a service of the Pain & Stress Center. Reach us at 1-800-669-2256 OR in San Antonio (210) 614-7247.
Posted by TexasChic on November 21, 2003, at 8:54:53
In reply to Please accept my apology » TexasChic, posted by Dr. Rod on November 20, 2003, at 21:27:12
I accept your apology. I also admit its easy to misinterpret emails without the benefit of emotion, tone of voice, or facial expressions to back it up. I've had alot of preaching at me in my life, so that's how I read your email in my mind. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted.
If you can stand a little advice, I think your enthusiasm for your subject may be over riding your delivery a bit. Its easy to do with emails (for all I know, I've screwed this one up already). For instance, this last email I felt quite comfortable about and I understood everything you had to say. I had alot of trouble understanding the first email and it made me feel like you were trying to force something on me. I don't know what you did differently, maybe just talking more to my level, but it was an incredible difference. I finally really got what you were saying about if an event can cause your body to change the chemicals in your brain, why can't your body change them back? Its an interesting theory. I'm not ready to go off medications yet , but I will definitely be reading up on it. Anyway, I better go. Hopefully I didn't come of as preachy this time.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 22, 2003, at 13:04:42
In reply to Please accept my apology » TexasChic, posted by Dr. Rod on November 20, 2003, at 21:27:12
> The book about the "gut" that started many people thinking was "The Second Brain" by Michael Gershon...
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 22, 2003, at 13:13:31
In reply to Posting on Alternatives you might want to read.. » TexasChic, posted by Dr. Rod on November 21, 2003, at 3:28:00
> *********This was posted by Dr Bob************
>
> In reply to Re: Everyone - Interested in when these darn SE's stop » Dr. Jill, posted by Moderndayfreak on November 19, 2003, at 20:34:33Well, reposted by me... Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031104/msgs/281817.html
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 22, 2003, at 16:03:55
In reply to Re: Please accept my apology » Dr. Rod, posted by justyourlaugh on November 20, 2003, at 22:11:56
> i feel your posts are very dangerous and can cause alot of harm..
> "i feel " you shouldnt be insulting those of us who do take meds..Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused. Thanks for trying the I-statement format, but starting statements with "I feel" doesn't necessarily mean someone won't feel accused. Test them, for example, without those words:
your posts are very dangerous and can cause alot of harm..
you shouldnt be insulting those of us who do take meds..Here's a page that goes into this in more detail:
http://www.crnhq.org/windskill4.html
Bob
PS: I used Google to search for pages on "I-statements", and what do you think was the second site listed? :-O
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