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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crushedout on November 1, 2003, at 15:05:56
A few months ago, I posted about how I told my therapist about my "romantic" feelings toward her, and also about my envy of her daughter. She told me that she found me beautiful but she also made it clear that her job was to enforce certain boundaries. I never confronted her about why she told me she found me beautiful, and we haven't really discussed the issue (of my transference) much since.
But recently, as I was telling her about the sexuality present in all my relationships with people (outside of therapy), she remarked that we should probably talk more about the "sexuality between us." It was the end of the session so we didn't really discuss it then and I haven't dared to bring it up since.
I just wonder what she means by that. It seems like some kind of admission that on one level she's attracted to me, and that's really exciting, but I'm scared to discuss it with her because I don't want to be disappointed or hurt. I'm not sure why I'm writing about this. I just wondered if any of you had any feedback.
I should point out that I feel extremely confident in her abilities as a therapist and that she would never do anything unethical.
Posted by Pharmer Boy on November 2, 2003, at 22:55:43
In reply to sexuality between us, posted by crushedout on November 1, 2003, at 15:05:56
> A few months ago, I posted about how I told my therapist about my "romantic" feelings toward her, and also about my envy of her daughter. She told me that she found me beautiful but she also made it clear that her job was to enforce certain boundaries. I never confronted her about why she told me she found me beautiful, and we haven't really discussed the issue (of my transference) much since.
>
> But recently, as I was telling her about the sexuality present in all my relationships with people (outside of therapy), she remarked that we should probably talk more about the "sexuality between us." It was the end of the session so we didn't really discuss it then and I haven't dared to bring it up since.
>
> I just wonder what she means by that. It seems like some kind of admission that on one level she's attracted to me, and that's really exciting, but I'm scared to discuss it with her because I don't want to be disappointed or hurt. I'm not sure why I'm writing about this. I just wondered if any of you had any feedback.
>
> I should point out that I feel extremely confident in her abilities as a therapist and that she would never do anything unethical.
>
>Take what she said as a compliment, but not as an admission of attraction. Since you have complete confidence in her ability as a therapist, realize that no matter what her feelings towards you, it would be unethical for her to act on them. For that reason, don't take rejection to mean that she doesn't like you, just use it to reinforce your view of her as a good therapist. Although its going to be hard, try to ask her for clarification about what she meant when she said she found you beautiful. I've also had romantic feelings for therapists, teachers and others I admire. The therapist-client relationship is a very important one where both of you are working together towards your personal progress. Even though it won't develop into a romantic situation, its still a very deep and significant bond for both parties.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 3, 2003, at 1:56:44
In reply to sexuality between us, posted by crushedout on November 1, 2003, at 15:05:56
I agree with Pharmer Boy. Take her telling you that your beautiful as a compliment. My psychiatrist tells me I'm pretty a lot. But, I don't think he means anything by it (sexual that is). Try asking her what exactly she means by that. Elle
Posted by crushedout on November 3, 2003, at 8:49:17
In reply to Re: sexuality between us » crushedout, posted by Elle2021 on November 3, 2003, at 1:56:44
I did take it as a compliment. But that's not all she said. She said we needed to talk about the "sexuality between us." Doesn't that suggest something to you?I think you're both right that I should follow up on the beautiful comment, but that was so long ago and I haven't dared yet. So I doubt that I will. I'm more interested in the "sexuality between us" comment at this point.
> I agree with Pharmer Boy. Take her telling you that your beautiful as a compliment. My psychiatrist tells me I'm pretty a lot. But, I don't think he means anything by it (sexual that is). Try asking her what exactly she means by that. Elle
Posted by deirdrehbrt on November 3, 2003, at 9:03:29
In reply to Re: sexuality between us, posted by crushedout on November 3, 2003, at 8:49:17
She could be talking about the sexuality that you feel about her, without meaning that she feels the same way. These are such hard, but such important topics to discuss. Good Luck!
Posted by crushedout on November 3, 2003, at 9:08:55
In reply to Re: sexuality between us » crushedout, posted by deirdrehbrt on November 3, 2003, at 9:03:29
Yeah, I've considered that possibility. But I think she chooses her words very carefully, and if that were the case, she would have framed it that way. I think she recognizes that sexuality is a two-way street -- even in this unique circumstance of the therapist-client relationship -- and doesn't want to pretend her feelings toward me (whatever those are -- I guess I need to ask her about them) aren't there.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 5, 2003, at 1:23:37
In reply to Re: sexuality between us, posted by crushedout on November 3, 2003, at 8:49:17
Well, you said you have a type of sexuality in all of your relationships. Maybe as a way of understanding what you meant, your doctor wanted you to describe the sexuality you feel in the relationship between the two of you. The only way to know for sure is to ask straight out. Bless you! Elle
> I did take it as a compliment. But that's not all she said. She said we needed to talk about the "sexuality between us." Doesn't that suggest something to you?
>
> I think you're both right that I should follow up on the beautiful comment, but that was so long ago and I haven't dared yet. So I doubt that I will. I'm more interested in the "sexuality between us" comment at this point.
>
>
>
> > I agree with Pharmer Boy. Take her telling you that your beautiful as a compliment. My psychiatrist tells me I'm pretty a lot. But, I don't think he means anything by it (sexual that is). Try asking her what exactly she means by that. Elle
>
>
Posted by Rigby on November 6, 2003, at 21:01:29
In reply to sexuality between us, posted by crushedout on November 1, 2003, at 15:05:56
Hi Crushed,
I think I may have had something similar with my therapist. I too also have sexualized a lot of relationships and desperately, I believe, wanted to sexualize and wanted my therapist to sexualize "our relationship." My therapist said kind of similar stuff about attraction between us but looking back, I believe as others pointed out, it may really of been her way of phrasing what was going on for me. It's a bit dangerous, her phrasing, as you want so badly for it to be mutual and it may or it may not be but if she's a good therapist she'll never let you know--figuring out even if mutuality is important to you is something you'll learn going through the wave of attraction towards your therapist. Ultimately the therapy is about you which is hard to hear when you're feeling very sexual towards your therapist but if she's good she'll use your attraction to her for insights on you. I also learned that sexualizing relationships allows me to control them--I didn't like the power differential with my therapist so I think subconsciously I was trying to even the score. I think if you talk through all this with your therapist--you'll learn alot. It may mean the end of secretly hoping it'll happen but you can really learn alot by exploring it with someone skilled.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Rigby
Posted by Dinah on November 6, 2003, at 21:06:19
In reply to Re: sexuality between us, posted by Rigby on November 6, 2003, at 21:01:29
It sounds as if you've learned a lot about yourself by using the transference. Congratulations! I'm sure it was hard work.
Posted by crushedout on November 6, 2003, at 21:39:06
In reply to Re: sexuality between us, posted by Rigby on November 6, 2003, at 21:01:29
Rigby,Thank you so much. It makes me sooooo sad to think that my T and I can never sleep together. I want to die. But everything you say makes sense. Except that since you already told me why I feel this way, what good will it do me to talk about it with her? It's so humiliating. I already feel too vulnerable. I'm sort of asking this question rhetorically (I know it must do some good) but I'm also wondering, for real. What on earth good can it possibly do? It seems like the only good outcome would be that we sleep together, get married, and live happily ever after. Any other option will be pure misery so why bother?
I think I may be PMSing because I'm feeling really hopeless about this right now.
Thanks again so much for your post.
xxxx
> Hi Crushed,
>
> I think I may have had something similar with my therapist. I too also have sexualized a lot of relationships and desperately, I believe, wanted to sexualize and wanted my therapist to sexualize "our relationship." My therapist said kind of similar stuff about attraction between us but looking back, I believe as others pointed out, it may really of been her way of phrasing what was going on for me. It's a bit dangerous, her phrasing, as you want so badly for it to be mutual and it may or it may not be but if she's a good therapist she'll never let you know--figuring out even if mutuality is important to you is something you'll learn going through the wave of attraction towards your therapist. Ultimately the therapy is about you which is hard to hear when you're feeling very sexual towards your therapist but if she's good she'll use your attraction to her for insights on you. I also learned that sexualizing relationships allows me to control them--I didn't like the power differential with my therapist so I think subconsciously I was trying to even the score. I think if you talk through all this with your therapist--you'll learn alot. It may mean the end of secretly hoping it'll happen but you can really learn alot by exploring it with someone skilled.
>
> Good luck and keep us posted.
>
> Rigby
>
Posted by Rigby on November 7, 2003, at 9:29:06
In reply to Re: sexuality between us, posted by crushedout on November 6, 2003, at 21:39:06
Hi Crushed,
You'd be amazed what might come out of talking it through with your therapist. For one, PMSing or not, it could seriously take the edge off--which will be a *good* thing. If your attractions are anything like mine, they're all consuming and not exactly pleasureable as if I can't "have" the object of your desire you're miserable. *However* it is amazingly possible to get through it and come out better for it by discussing it with your therapist.
What I did was I was having a lot of highly sexual and romantic dreams about her was I would write them down and email them to her and we would discuss them. Talking about them really helped--it seemed to "click" for me, especially contrasting dreams and romantic fantasies with having a conversation in a room with a therapist. A good therapist will not lead you on but will you lead you towards insights. The last dream I had was amazingly positive and romantic and wonderful and although she was featured in it it was *my* dream and I just realized that it wasn't really about this woman as a person--I simply do not know her well enough to feel any particular way. But what she represented (represents) was key to understanding more about myself. And she analyzed the dream with me and somehow, discussing it with her, really took the edge off the fantasy.
I can still feel attractions towards this woman but it comes and goes and is not a big deal like it was. What I've learned from the process has been very helpful.
Listen to what you're saying--that not being able to sleep with her makes you feel like dying. It's a horrible feeling. I've been there. Trust me, it's so very NOT about this particular woman. Figuring out what it *is* about takes courage and you will get there. The only way out is through.
I'd give it a shot--talk to her. Chances are she's got a good feel already--if not you're giving her more information to help you.
Best,
Rigby
Posted by Rigby on November 7, 2003, at 9:29:57
In reply to Re: sexuality between us » Rigby, posted by Dinah on November 6, 2003, at 21:06:19
Thanks Dinah! :)
> It sounds as if you've learned a lot about yourself by using the transference. Congratulations! I'm sure it was hard work.
Posted by crushedout on November 7, 2003, at 16:36:46
In reply to Re: sexuality between us, posted by Rigby on November 7, 2003, at 9:29:06
Wow, Rigby. What you write is really impressive and inspiring. It kinda makes me sad but it also gives me hope. Can I ask how long it took you to get to that point with your T? For how long/how often have been seeing your T?I've been seeing mine for about a year and a half, and we've only begun to touch on this transference stuff. It's really hard for me. I always shut down when she brings it up.
We just started seeing each other 3 times a week. Up from two. I really want to work this stuff out, but I'm so slow.
> Hi Crushed,
>
> You'd be amazed what might come out of talking it through with your therapist. For one, PMSing or not, it could seriously take the edge off--which will be a *good* thing. If your attractions are anything like mine, they're all consuming and not exactly pleasureable as if I can't "have" the object of your desire you're miserable. *However* it is amazingly possible to get through it and come out better for it by discussing it with your therapist.
>
> What I did was I was having a lot of highly sexual and romantic dreams about her was I would write them down and email them to her and we would discuss them. Talking about them really helped--it seemed to "click" for me, especially contrasting dreams and romantic fantasies with having a conversation in a room with a therapist. A good therapist will not lead you on but will you lead you towards insights. The last dream I had was amazingly positive and romantic and wonderful and although she was featured in it it was *my* dream and I just realized that it wasn't really about this woman as a person--I simply do not know her well enough to feel any particular way. But what she represented (represents) was key to understanding more about myself. And she analyzed the dream with me and somehow, discussing it with her, really took the edge off the fantasy.
>
> I can still feel attractions towards this woman but it comes and goes and is not a big deal like it was. What I've learned from the process has been very helpful.
>
> Listen to what you're saying--that not being able to sleep with her makes you feel like dying. It's a horrible feeling. I've been there. Trust me, it's so very NOT about this particular woman. Figuring out what it *is* about takes courage and you will get there. The only way out is through.
>
> I'd give it a shot--talk to her. Chances are she's got a good feel already--if not you're giving her more information to help you.
>
> Best,
>
> Rigby
>
>
>
Posted by Rigby on November 7, 2003, at 17:43:13
In reply to Re: sexuality between us, posted by crushedout on November 7, 2003, at 16:36:46
Hi Crushed,
I've been seeing my therapist for a little under two years and I stopped having these intense feelings for her after 18 months or so. I see her once a week. We didn't talk all that directly about attraction--it came up in the dreams I wrote down, in me trying to quit (I couldn't, I was too attached,) etc. I talked about it by saying that a male therapist might be easier and less complicated and she knew what I meant (she disagreed, by the way, said I'd have issues with a male therapist too and that her being female might actually make the therapy richer for me.) But we discussed it indirectly but, very directly too in a sense if you get the picture.
>Can I ask how long it took you to get to that point with your T? For how long/how often have been seeing your T?Three times/week is quite intense. May I ask why you're in therapy? I started because I became very depressed--waves of depression triggered by re-connecting with a woman from the past whom I'd been in love with for many years.
> We just started seeing each other 3 times a week. Up from two. I really want to work this stuff out, but I'm so slow.Rigby
Posted by crushedout on November 8, 2003, at 1:46:40
In reply to Re: sexuality between us, posted by Rigby on November 7, 2003, at 17:43:13
Oh, Rigby, that's kind of depressing. Reinforces my idea that I'm slow. But I guess everyone has their own timetable so it's stupid for me to think like that.I started therapy because I was in a bad relationship. But I also suffered from depression and anxiety. Now I'm all better and I just go to therapy because it's the highlight of my life.
p.s. i'm totally freaking out that i accidentally signed my name to an earlier post.
> Hi Crushed,
>
> I've been seeing my therapist for a little under two years and I stopped having these intense feelings for her after 18 months or so. I see her once a week. We didn't talk all that directly about attraction--it came up in the dreams I wrote down, in me trying to quit (I couldn't, I was too attached,) etc. I talked about it by saying that a male therapist might be easier and less complicated and she knew what I meant (she disagreed, by the way, said I'd have issues with a male therapist too and that her being female might actually make the therapy richer for me.) But we discussed it indirectly but, very directly too in a sense if you get the picture.
> >Can I ask how long it took you to get to that point with your T? For how long/how often have been seeing your T?
>
> Three times/week is quite intense. May I ask why you're in therapy? I started because I became very depressed--waves of depression triggered by re-connecting with a woman from the past whom I'd been in love with for many years.
> > We just started seeing each other 3 times a week. Up from two. I really want to work this stuff out, but I'm so slow.
>
> Rigby
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2003, at 8:44:32
In reply to Re: sexuality between us, posted by crushedout on November 8, 2003, at 1:46:40
> p.s. i'm totally freaking out that i accidentally signed my name to an earlier post.
>Hi. Been there, had that panic attack. So I know how upsetting it is when it isn't intended. I think I deleted it. If you refresh the post, you should see it's gone. If something like that happens, and you didn't intend it, just post something on Admin, or better yet email Dr. Bob and the deputies (our names are in the FAQ's). That way it will be taken care of most quickly.
Posted by crushedout on November 8, 2003, at 10:30:34
In reply to Re: Administration » crushedout, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2003, at 8:44:32
thanks, dinah! phew. i figured there was an easy solution and that i wasn't the first person who did that!
> > p.s. i'm totally freaking out that i accidentally signed my name to an earlier post.
> >
>
> Hi. Been there, had that panic attack. So I know how upsetting it is when it isn't intended. I think I deleted it. If you refresh the post, you should see it's gone. If something like that happens, and you didn't intend it, just post something on Admin, or better yet email Dr. Bob and the deputies (our names are in the FAQ's). That way it will be taken care of most quickly.
Posted by Rigby on November 8, 2003, at 17:50:44
In reply to Re: sexuality between us, posted by crushedout on November 8, 2003, at 1:46:40
Hi Crushed,
Nah, you're not slow--you're learning and who knows, I could have a huge backslide and get all obsessed about my therapist again--the possibilities are endless! ;)
I hear yah regarding therapy being your main diversion. It's that old, "Get a life" thing that's painful and hard to do. If you're feeling better though I wonder why you've increased the number of weekly visits? Did your therapist recommend this to you?
Rigby
Posted by crushedout on November 8, 2003, at 20:33:16
In reply to Re: sexuality between us, posted by Rigby on November 8, 2003, at 17:50:44
> I hear yah regarding therapy being your main diversion. It's that old, "Get a life" thing that's painful and hard to do. If you're feeling better though I wonder why you've increased the number of weekly visits? Did your therapist recommend this to you?
Not exactly, no. She asked me, when we decided to go up to twice a week, whether I wanted to do three, and I said I'd love to if I had unlimited time and money, but I couldn't. Recently, I came into some more time and money. :-) Also, I feel like we're getting close to something, and I want to get through it.
Posted by crushedout on November 8, 2003, at 20:36:20
In reply to Re: sexuality between us, posted by crushedout on November 8, 2003, at 20:33:16
OK, to be fully honest, I also just wanted to see her more often, since she's kind of what I live for. Although it sounds a little pathetic, it seems like not such a bad reason either.
> > I hear yah regarding therapy being your main diversion. It's that old, "Get a life" thing that's painful and hard to do. If you're feeling better though I wonder why you've increased the number of weekly visits? Did your therapist recommend this to you?
>
>
> Not exactly, no. She asked me, when we decided to go up to twice a week, whether I wanted to do three, and I said I'd love to if I had unlimited time and money, but I couldn't. Recently, I came into some more time and money. :-) Also, I feel like we're getting close to something, and I want to get through it.
>
>
Posted by Rigby on November 8, 2003, at 23:56:43
In reply to Re: sexuality between us, posted by crushedout on November 8, 2003, at 20:36:20
Wow, this is one expensive crush, huh? ;)
I hope that you are getting closer to some deeper issues. And again, I think since this crush is this intense and that you're actually spending quite a bit of money specifically so that you can see her, I would really try and talk with her--it could possibly be the most effective way of resolving it.
Rigby
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