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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on July 9, 2003, at 14:13:00
My therapist got back from her vacation and I had my session last night. Before she left, in my last session, my plan was to let go of my boyfriend, who had just dumped me, to not try to get him back or anything. While she was gone, I went back to him, he got scared and dumped me again, I went back again, and we're still together now although I told him I didn't want to have a sexual relationship again yet.
While she was gone I read 2 self-help books about relationships (marriage actually) and love addiction, and I tried some new behaviors to respond when we have arguments. I also was trying to be more nurturing and supportive to this guy who can be very needy and insecure. We had a couple arguments since all my efforts and it seemed better-- it didn't blow up to the point of him dumping me again. I've also asked him to ask me for some time apart instead of saying he wants to stop seeing me entirely when he gets scared. So it felt like I had grown and practiced some new behaviors, and our destructive pattern had improved some.
There are still major barriers to us having a real future together-- the main one is that he ekes out a living as a massage therapist and artist, typically seeing only 5-8 clients a week, so he makes about $15k per year, has no health insurance, no savings, drives an old jalopy, and lives in a 1-br rental. I have a good income as a software engineer, own a home, a new car, and a good amount of savings and investments for retirement. Financial security is important to me. I've been poor as a student and I hated it. I also once married an unemployed artist and I hated being the sole breadwinner.
Once I wanted to break it off over money issues, due to thinking there was no way I'd ever want to live with him or marry him, but I was still ambivalent, since I was in love with the guy, and he talked me out of it. Since then I've been thinking if we have a good relationship and he's meeting a lot of my needs, we can work something out regarding money.
The other issue is he seems to have some attachment issues. He periodically gets into a very needy insecure state where nothing I do can reassure him, he accuses me of not being loving enough, and 2 (or 3?) times he's dumped me out of fear and pain over this. He's working on this issue through a love addiction support group and spirituality books, but honestly I think he needs some therapy. My therapist says he needs to learn to soothe himself, but I don't think that's his goal. I think his goal is to get me to do it for him and be there when he needs me. Sometimes I can, but sometimes it just turns me off and I'm not in a place to deal with it. Whenever I'm needy (not as often) he drops whatever he's doing and rushes over to be with me, and so he expects the same from me. My therapist says just because he has poor boundaries that doesn't mean I have to as well.
We also have some very different values and I don't think we respect each other completely. Regarding money, I see him as irresponsible and he sees himself as spiritual and non-materialistic. He sees me as excessively insecure and too focused on 'things'. Regarding medical care, he's very prejudiced against what he calls 'western medicine lifestyle' and is very much opposed to taking medication, even aspirin. He considers himself a health care worker because he does massage, but I consider that a little over-blown. Regarding personal growth, he doesn't seem to have much respect for psychology-- he does 12 steps and reads eastern spirituality books. I've done those things too, but I'm convinced therapy has done more for me than anything, and is the only thing that really gets at the childhood and developmental issues. For me 12 steps and spirituality books were just a coping mechanism, therapy was the real healing. So it's like we can tolerate each other's paths, but don't really respect them.
Lots of issues right?
But regardless, I am attached to him and was not able to let go.
So I was in this frenzy of working on the relationship, and thinking it could work out. Then my therapist came back. After my session I feel clarity that this relationship has no future. I'm just hanging onto it because he has become my main companion and is the only person who's really there for me on a daily basis. I don't want to go through the grief of letting go and being alone again, then trying to build up my social network and finding another mate.
I feel like an idiot that when she was gone I got so convinced to stay with him, then one session and I'm convinced it can't work. By the way she doesn't really advocate to leave him, she just infuses a certain skepticism about his maturity and my true ability to be with someone so broke over the long term.
She advocates that I'm more advanced than him in terms of psychological maturity based on what I've told her about how needy he gets. She's also advocated that I can find someone who has his desirable qualities but also has more of what I want (maturity and financial responsibility). He has argued to me that I'm just as needy, but playing it out differently. When she was gone, I had a moment of thinking that he might be right, that we're at the same level, that my therapist sees me through rose colored glasses, and this guy is really at my level.
Now driving home from the session I was kind of sickened that I was willing to make such a sacrifice just for companionship. It's almost like I'm making myself buy it, with money and with playing therapist/nurse/mommy to a needy immature guy. I thought if we were married I'd be buying a mate again, like I did in my first marriage. I was thinking if she had not been on vacation, I would have called her instead of him, and I would not have gotten back together with him.
When we were together though, I was angry that my therapist isn't there for me the way he is. Obviously a therapist can't be so available, but it felt like Therapist vs. Boyfriend and Boyfriend was winning. Now Therapist is winning again.
Either way, I'm feeling like a weak person who doesn't know her own mind. I had moments I was totally convinced he could meet my needs. I thought although he can't provide money, he can provide companionship, emotional support, and physical closeness and sex. Therapist pointed out the sex isn't good and I'm not really getting emotional support. He's caring when I'm needy, but when I need to set a boundary he freaks out and punishes me. I've been convinced we could work out the sexual problems and, well, I never thought of respecting my boundaries as a form of necessary emotional support, so I have to admit she's got me on that one.
Just wanted to write all this stuff to hear myself say it. I know, it sounds like I should dump him immediately. I was torturing myself with trying to decide every single day whether to stay or go, so I decided I'd just commit for a month than re-evaluate. So when she was out I decided I'd commit for july, now it feels dishonest.
Regarding sex, she said I need to tell him I want a non-sexual relationship for now. I've lost all desire, due (I think) to how on-and-off it's been lately. I felt like he's a ticking time bomb waiting to explode again. She says it's essential I set limits or it will get worse. I accept sex I don't want, then of course I feel used and have even less desire. He wants to fix it now of course. I had told him I wanted maybe 2 weeks without sex, and he said I was putting him on probation, though so far he's tolerated it. If I tell him I want to have a non-sexual relationship for an indeterminate time, I don't think he'll accept it. He may freak and dump me again. Problem solved right?
She asked me an interesting question. She said if he was a car, what kind of car would he be. I said some kind of really cute classic Beetle, that had a lot of charming little features but was high maintenance and lacking modern amenities. She asked me would I want to buy that car, and if so how long would I want to keep it. My first reaction was, well if I were 20 I'd buy it, but now I'd probably hesitate. If I owned it I'd want to drive it for a year or two, then upgrade to a grown-up modern car.
I guess there you have it.
It just seems so cruel to do what has to be done. Set my real limits, then wait for him to self-destruct, since he's too needy to tolerate my real limits. I can't contemplate watching him melt down again. Such a heavy sadness.
I'm going to see him later, I'm afraid he'll take one look and know something has changed. He's super-sensitive to rejection. Ugh.
Meanwhile I'm supposed to be re-focusing on my own life, which right now seems pretty dull. I have some paperwork to catch up on, and never-ending home maintenance, and self-care. I whined that my life isn't as exciting as the relationship. Therapist says I'm taking control, and taking control is exciting. It doesn't feel very exciting.
I'm mostly just venting, but I welcome feedback on this. Thanks for reading.
Posted by Dinah on July 9, 2003, at 17:22:39
In reply to Therapist versus boyfriend (long), posted by Tabitha on July 9, 2003, at 14:13:00
Hey Tabitha.
I'll stick my nose out of my little burrow for a sec. :)
I think in your heart you know the answer to this. And for what it's worth, I trust your judgement enough to think that your decision will be a wise one. I also trust your maturity and wisdom enough to think that you will follow through on whatever decision is in your heart at a pace that feels right to you and perhaps your boyfriend, not anyone else.
I have a fair amount of awe for those who can make a relationship decision and immediately follow through with it. But I also respect those who send out a few weather balloons first as well.
In the thirteen years I dated my husband, I decided countless times that he was not the man for me. And I decided countless + 1 times that he was just what I needed. And I was right both times. Eventually I adjusted my expectations such that he was the right man for me, while still retaining those expectations that were essential for me. And over ten years later, the process continues. It's actually what I'm working on right now in therapy.
I did the same thing with my relationship with my therapist the first five years in therapy. The final result could have gone either way I suppose, as I was disappointed, readjusted my expectations, etc. But it turned out that my essential expectations could be met by this therapist, and quite nicely too.
You'll do the same thing, at your own pace. And be happier with your decision because of it, whatever your decision is.
Of course, from time to time (like in this post, or your post to Kara Lynne), it may appear clearer to your therapist and friends what your ultimate decision will be. But that is no reason to rush into it. (Of course, I'm the person who dated my husband for thirteen years, so what do I know?)
Posted by fallsfall on July 9, 2003, at 18:52:31
In reply to Therapist versus boyfriend (long), posted by Tabitha on July 9, 2003, at 14:13:00
I think that Dinah said it beautifully.
The only thing that I will add may make things muddier rather than cleaner (sorry). I was married for 19 years. When I told my family that I wanted to marry him they were appalled. I have a Masters degree (I'm a Software Engineer), he has a High School Diploma (he was a Pepsi salesman at the time). My family said that the "culture" differences were important enough for me to call off the wedding. I told them that he was kind and generous, and I didn't care if he had gone to college. They let us get married, but they weren't happy about it. We have 3 kids. After about 12 years they started to see what I meant about his kindness and generousity, and they decided that I had made a good choice. Then I left him. Education wasn't the primary reason I left, but it was a significant reason. When I think about regrets, one of my bigger regrets is not having someone more culturally oriented for those 19 years. Now my family can't understand why I left - they love him because he is kind and generous!
I tell you this story because the money, medical care, and personal growth issues that you have. These issues are of the same type as my education issue. I guess I'm just trying to say that something that I thought was totally unimportant when I was in my early 20s is now (46) important.
The other thing to keep in mind is that starting over now, generating a support structure, is easier than it ever will be again.
You are asking the right questions, and looking at the right things. Good Luck!
Posted by Tabitha on July 10, 2003, at 16:15:19
In reply to Re: Therapist versus boyfriend (long) » Tabitha, posted by fallsfall on July 9, 2003, at 18:52:31
thanks Dinah for peeking out of your burrow. I hope your break is refreshing. You dated for 13 years before marrying? Wow. That's a lot of time to get to know someone.
Falls, I'm embarassed to admit I'm already 40 and still swept away by this. Thanks for your thoughts. Did you ever wonder, if you had married an educated man instead, would you be regretting you didn't go for that passion with the pepsi salesman?? You just never know. When it's head vs heart, there's no good answer. I'll keep hoping to find that 'just right' combination.
Posted by Dinah on July 10, 2003, at 19:59:50
In reply to Re: to Dinah, Fallsfall, posted by Tabitha on July 10, 2003, at 16:15:19
> You dated for 13 years before marrying? Wow. That's a lot of time to get to know someone.
>You can't be too careful you know. But even so I found marriage brought an awful lot of surprises. :)
This is the end of the thread.
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