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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by WorryGirl on April 13, 2003, at 19:57:25
Are nightmares more healthy than a sign of bad things?
I slept 10 hours last night, but it was very broken sleep, with a total of about 8 hours of actual sleep (bless my husband, he let me sleep in and watched the kids).
In the last year or two I have dreamed very little (aside from the dreams none of us remember), probably because I am lucky to get 5-6 hours and am not getting enough REM sleep.
So even though my dreams were extremely disturbing (two tornado dreams, one dream that my husband was insulting me and relaying his dislike of me, and one fuzzy one I can barely remember of a neighbor not knowing who I was). I already know what the tornado dreams are supposed to represent, but I'm wondering if it's more of a release (my subconscious mind getting emptied of negative thoughts) or is it a sign of my anxiety (the tornado dreams)? Maybe a little of both?
When I awoke I didn't feel disturbed at all, only obvious relief that the dreams weren't real and extremely rested.
Posted by Hollygirl on April 13, 2003, at 21:15:17
In reply to Dreams, posted by WorryGirl on April 13, 2003, at 19:57:25
I think dreams like that are caused by anxiety. Kind of like sex dreams are caused by lack of sex...
Posted by Miller on April 13, 2003, at 21:22:34
In reply to Dreams, posted by WorryGirl on April 13, 2003, at 19:57:25
I just read recently that nightmares can enable a person to subconsciously release anxiety that the person is not ready to face. Such as a traumatic event that a person isn't ready to deal with yet, but needs release. If you have issues you haven't dealt with, maybe your subconscious is helping you to relieve a little pressure.
Just a thought. May you sleep well tonight.
-Miller
Posted by wendy b. on April 14, 2003, at 9:58:20
In reply to Dreams, posted by WorryGirl on April 13, 2003, at 19:57:25
hi there, sorry about your disturbed sleep patterns lately. i suffer from the same thing - last week i guess from the increase in sunlight and the daylight savings time change, i slept MAYBE 3 or 3 1/2 hrs for several nights in a row. boy, was i blotto by the time thursday rolled around. two people at work asked me if everything was ok! i must have looked pretty bad, which is not my usual presentation to the world, where i always make a show of everything being ok, whether it is or not...
anyway, dreams are the place where we work out unconscious desires, fears, premonitions, etc. like: ever have a slightly bad feeling about somebody, and then have them turn into homicidal maniacs in your nightmares? and sometimes your impression in your dream turns out to be correct? other times not, but still... premonitions are freaky.
your reaction is normal, it does get disturbing. sometimes. i think people like us do better getting just shy of 8 hours of sleep - we're just not used to having that extra REM sleep time! anxiety dreams are supposedly helpful (according to freud), like anticipatory dreams about public performance (speeches) or important test-taking. ususally a mild amount of anxiety helps one do better.
your dream about your husband is also pretty standard, but probably based on some negative thoughts YOU are having about him, and then getting transformed. just a guess, really; anything he did lately that pissed you off? it's all about security and stability, and maintaining a kind of balance. don't let it freak you out. he sounds like a good guy if he takes the kids and does stuff with them without being asked to - a rare breed, even today.
the tornado is some kind of sexual reference, i'm sure, but not knowing any of the dream-story details, it's hard to tell. any other things you remember about it?
take care, and sleep well,
Wendy
Posted by WorryGirl on April 14, 2003, at 13:19:35
In reply to Re: Dreams » WorryGirl, posted by wendy b. on April 14, 2003, at 9:58:20
Hi Wendy,
Thanks for your reply. It seems that the dreams were sort of an anxiety release.
My husband doesn't intentionally do anything to piss me off. The kind of stuff he might do that he knows will anger me he hides from me, but somehow I always end up finding out.
Lately we've been getting along pretty well. That's why it sort of surprised me that I'd be having the dream about him not liking me.A few weeks ago, though, I had a horrible mood episode that I feared had destroyed our relationship irreparably. I attacked his sexuality and character, which was harsh. I felt and still feel so ashamed about the things I said. When he shut me out I felt so devastated I couldn't handle it and really lost it. It's amazing how my well-being depends so much on his acceptance of me.
So I'm guessing that the nightmares stem from my treatment of him, which stemmed from feeling neglected and disconnected from him (which he says wasn't intentional); and the circle goes round and round....
As for the tornado dream, these two dreams were different in one way from every other tornado dream I've ever had. In the past, I always saw the funnel from a distance, with it approaching and me running away. Just when it seemed as if the funnel had reached me and was about to suck me up I'd wake up in terror.
This time, I was standing in the dark but knew that the tornado was there - it sort of appeared as a vibrating bubble (it was clear). I was pretty much standing face to face with it, and although afraid, I wasn't as terrified as I was in the past tornado dreams. In the other tornado dream, again, I couldn't see it, but I could hear it. I was inside our house and could feel it start to shake the walls, but I woke up.
I wonder why I never saw the dark, distant funnel this time.Dreams are fascinating; if you or anyone wants to share theirs I'd love to hear about them.
Posted by Dinah on April 16, 2003, at 4:03:35
In reply to Dreams, posted by WorryGirl on April 13, 2003, at 19:57:25
Just woke up from one of my very rare remembered dreams. And what few ones I do remember are usually very mundane. I get up, brush my teeth, get ready for work... That sort of thing.
But in this one I am in a health club or something like that. I dive into the pool and find out that it's deeper than I had thought. I'm headfirst, going deeper and deeper and deeper, wondering where the bottom could possibly be, almost idly wondering if there was a lifeguard. Then I hear a voice that sounds as if it's right beside me although I immediately recognize that it is the lifeguard speaking from above surface. The voice calmly gives me instructions about how to turn around and head towards the surface. I do what it says and eventually come up. Everyone is relieved but I realize that I had come to the health club with my son, and start frantically looking for him. He's floating nearby and when I grab him, I can tell he's unconcious. Horrified and terrified, I hand him to the lifeguard to do CPR.
Then I wake up terrified and shaking.
What would that mean? Althoug if it's awful, I don't think I want to know. Do I feel like I'm neglecting my son to dive deeper into - what? I don't *think* I am. :(((
Posted by noa on April 16, 2003, at 9:25:25
In reply to Re: Dreams, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2003, at 4:03:35
Dinah, the first part of the dream is wonderful!
The second sounds terrifying.
The image of going deeper into the pool, not knowing where bottom is and then being guided gently to the surface is so beautiful. When you were going to the deep, what emotions did you feel? Was the voice reassuring?
I don't know what to make of the panic you felt about your son, but I have some ideas--nothing earth shattering, just the "obvious" stuff about Dinah paying attention to herself and taking care of herself being a no-no, you know, what you learned from your family of origin but have internalized.
The other thought is that your son could represent the alternative 'you' had you not had the voice guiding you back to the surface--ie, realizing the danger to yourself if you had continued to go deeper into the water. That you have a choice. That you have a choice NOW. That your son might represent the child in you who had no guiding voice when you were growing up.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on April 16, 2003, at 10:06:51
In reply to Re: Dreams » wendy b., posted by WorryGirl on April 14, 2003, at 13:19:35
> Dreams are fascinating; if you or anyone wants to share theirs I'd love to hear about them.
---------------I have a lot of tornado dreams, too. Usually, I see/hear the tornado coming, and I'm scurrying through a large, old, unfamiliar house to find a safe closet or basement corner to crouch in while it blows by.
It's amazing how realistic these dreams can be. I once had a dream of a nuclear missle attack. It was much like the tornado scenario I described above. I hid in a split level basement, crouched in the duck and cover position in the corner, on some smelly shag carpet. The bomb went off, and I heard/felt this huge pressure shift (whoooom). Everything was shaking, and I could feel and hear the sweat on my back boiling from the heat, as I crouched tightly. When the sensations normalized, I slowly stood up. Looking down, the shag carpet had burned into a thin, black, smoking goo on the concrete floor, except for a fresh shag outline of the area I had been crouched in. Looking out the dirty half window above me, I could see an enormous mushroom cloud on the horizon, with 3 crazy tornados spinning out from it, dying out, and starting again. It was actually a beautiful shade of pink.
Have you ever thought you were dreaming, examined your surroundings thoroughly, and been convinced you weren't? I've had that a lot lately. The best giveaway is usually the hopeless unreadability of text in dreams. It looks speciously like valid words until you try to actually read it, and then it's obvious that it's gibberish (and constantly changing gibberish for that matter). The and when the there had from irx randamal goinv strampt dsk...
Posted by Dinah on April 16, 2003, at 15:27:13
In reply to Re: Dreams, posted by noa on April 16, 2003, at 9:25:25
What a reassuring way to interpret the part of my dream about my son, Noa. :)
On my way down I was thinking "I wonder if this will be the day I die? That's funny, I didn't come here to die today. How deep can this possibly be?" Calm things really.
And the voice was very reassuring. It was bright and clear like an angel must sound, and at first I thought it might be an angel before I realized it must be the lifeguard. It didn't sound at all like my therapist, but it gave me the same calm feeling that my therapist's voice gives me.
Until the end with my son, it wasn't a bad dream really.
Posted by WorryGirl on April 17, 2003, at 17:13:02
In reply to Re: Dreams » WorryGirl, posted by Hollygirl on April 13, 2003, at 21:15:17
I think you're right, but they usually happen after I've gotten over my most anxious phase - don't really know why.
Posted by WorryGirl on April 17, 2003, at 17:14:30
In reply to Re: Dreams » WorryGirl, posted by Miller on April 13, 2003, at 21:22:34
> I just read recently that nightmares can enable a person to subconsciously release anxiety that the person is not ready to face. Such as a traumatic event that a person isn't ready to deal with yet, but needs release. If you have issues you haven't dealt with, maybe your subconscious is helping you to relieve a little pressure.
>
> Just a thought. May you sleep well tonight.Sounds likely to me. I have been sleeping better lately. I hope it lasts!
Sweet dreams to you, too.
>
> -Miller
>
Posted by WorryGirl on April 17, 2003, at 17:20:21
In reply to Re: Dreams, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2003, at 4:03:35
> Just woke up from one of my very rare remembered dreams. And what few ones I do remember are usually very mundane. I get up, brush my teeth, get ready for work... That sort of thing.
>
> But in this one I am in a health club or something like that. I dive into the pool and find out that it's deeper than I had thought. I'm headfirst, going deeper and deeper and deeper, wondering where the bottom could possibly be, almost idly wondering if there was a lifeguard. Then I hear a voice that sounds as if it's right beside me although I immediately recognize that it is the lifeguard speaking from above surface. The voice calmly gives me instructions about how to turn around and head towards the surface. I do what it says and eventually come up. Everyone is relieved but I realize that I had come to the health club with my son, and start frantically looking for him. He's floating nearby and when I grab him, I can tell he's unconcious. Horrified and terrified, I hand him to the lifeguard to do CPR.
>
> Then I wake up terrified and shaking.
>
> What would that mean? Althoug if it's awful, I don't think I want to know. Do I feel like I'm neglecting my son to dive deeper into - what? I don't *think* I am. :(((
I don't think the dream was about neglecting your son. It might have had more to do with the fact that you feel that you are facing many challenges alone. The lifeguard's voice may represent your support, be it friends, family, or whoever. Your son being unconscious could mean that he is going through some challenges and hardships that you might not be aware of. By bringing you to the surface, the lifeguard was letting you know that you are not in this alone, neither is your son, and that he needs you very much right now.I'm in no way a dream expert but it is interesting to consider possibilities. On different days I might interpret the same dream differently.
To me, dreams are like kaleidoscopes.
Posted by wendy b. on April 17, 2003, at 18:12:57
In reply to Re: Dreams » wendy b., posted by WorryGirl on April 14, 2003, at 13:19:35
> Thanks for your reply. It seems that the dreams were sort of an anxiety release.
Sorry it took a while to write back... It's almost always anxiety that we have to deal with in dreams. Sometimes it's just something inconsequential that happens during the day that sets something off in our unconscious minds, and the dream picks up on that and embellishes it. Dreams were thought to be in the same category by Freud as slips of the tongue, slips of the ear (hearing something the wrong way), or slips of the pen. That the way they work follows the same kind of logic..., and they project and distort in the same kinds of ways.
> My husband doesn't intentionally do anything to piss me off. The kind of stuff he might do that he knows will anger me he hides from me, but somehow I always end up finding out.
Anything really important? or just little things?
> Lately we've been getting along pretty well. That's why it sort of surprised me that I'd be having the dream about him not liking me.>
> A few weeks ago, though, I had a horrible mood episode that I feared had destroyed our relationship irreparably. I attacked his sexuality and character, which was harsh. I felt and still feel so ashamed about the things I said. When he shut me out I felt so devastated I couldn't handle it and really lost it. It's amazing how my well-being depends so much on his acceptance of me.Yes, it does, this is the most primary of the primary relationships... your mate. So, of course it's still there in the background, and the way one's mind creates balance is to give you a reason to be mad at him, or to feel justified in outburst-ing (not a word, but...) him the way you did... So you did again in your dream (gave yourself a reason), which to me is far better than the opposite: dreaming something up (imagining some problem, or maybe magnifying it, distorting it) in reality. That is why I think dreaming is so important, it serves such an important function. [By the way, your outburst may have been harsh, but you can forgive yourself now, especially if he has gotten over it.]
I remember my sister having dreams about our parents dying (she was about 20 or so at the time), and she told me how guilty she felt. I'm pretty sure she was having major issues with them. I told her how common this was, and that better it should happen in her unconscious, this is where it gets 'taken care of,' so they don't have to die in reality, no matter how much you might like them to.
> So I'm guessing that the nightmares stem from my treatment of him, which stemmed from feeling neglected and disconnected from him (which he says wasn't intentional); and the circle goes round and round....
Well, I hope you can see it for what it was, recognize that you still feel angry, know that it's really ok, and that you might be able to 'process' all this better now... I think coming out and simply saying to the husband: "I'm feeling neglected, or disconnected...' and asking for a pure and simple hug, will remind you both of what you found wonderful in each other when you first got together. It's ok to be vulnerable sometimes; I have a similar problem with projecting on my significant other, the feelings that are going on in me. i.e., I assign blame to him over what are inevitably needy (or self-critical or self-inadequacy) feelings coming out of me...
> As for the tornado dream, these two dreams were different in one way from every other tornado dream I've ever had. In the past, I always saw the funnel from a distance, with it approaching and me running away. Just when it seemed as if the funnel had reached me and was about to suck me up I'd wake up in terror.Yeah, I used to have drowning dreams a lot. Funny, the only time I had real suicidal ideation, I was standing at the edge of Lake Michigan on the Chicago promenade, end of February, freaking-ass cold, and thought I should do it that way, you know, jump in and die of hypothermia and drown. So that link is clear now... the thing I'm most afraid of...
> This time, I was standing in the dark but knew that the tornado was there - it sort of appeared as a vibrating bubble (it was clear). I was pretty much standing face to face with it, and although afraid, I wasn't as terrified as I was in the past tornado dreams. In the other tornado dream, again, I couldn't see it, but I could hear it. I was inside our house and could feel it start to shake the walls, but I woke up.Hmmm... You were less afraid, maybe because you've acknowledged something, or stood up to something. You're somehow standing your ground? I don't know. Definitely a sea-change is happening in your psyche right now... and maybe you can figure out what that is?
> I wonder why I never saw the dark, distant funnel this time.
Supposedly, inside the funnel it's very quiet... I think I heard this or read this somewhere, and I don't know if it's true or not, but it's interesting...
> Dreams are fascinating; if you or anyone wants to share theirs I'd love to hear about them.
Thank you, my dear...! I think the meds I'm on make me dream less, or like I said before, I have very little REM sleep time, so I may not remember much because there isn't much. At least I've been sleeping more, and am not so blotto! I hope your 'night movies' give you (us!) more food for thought, soon.
my very best to you,
I am reading you on the other boards,
trying to get a fuller picture,Wendy
Posted by noa on May 21, 2003, at 18:01:46
In reply to Re: Dreams » wendy b., posted by WorryGirl on April 14, 2003, at 13:19:35
WG, just going over old posts to catch up. I had another thought about your tornado dreams. You wrote:
> A few weeks ago, though, I had a horrible mood episode that I feared had destroyed our relationship irreparably.
Could the mood episode be the tornado, accounting for the tornado being up close and personal, not seen from a distance, as you describe the tornado being "inside our house and could feel it start to shake the walls" and being "face to face with it", as opposed to previous tornado dreams, in which, you "always saw the funnel from a distance".
Posted by WorryGirl on May 22, 2003, at 15:07:31
In reply to Re: Dreams » WorryGirl, posted by noa on May 21, 2003, at 18:01:46
> WG, just going over old posts to catch up. I had another thought about your tornado dreams. You wrote:
>
> > A few weeks ago, though, I had a horrible mood episode that I feared had destroyed our relationship irreparably.
>
> Could the mood episode be the tornado, accounting for the tornado being up close and personal, not seen from a distance, as you describe the tornado being "inside our house and could feel it start to shake the walls" and being "face to face with it", as opposed to previous tornado dreams, in which, you "always saw the funnel from a distance".
>Wow, Noa, you could be right on. I never thought about that before, and it kind of gives me the shivers. It's like the tornado represents how closely I am dealing with my personal traumas (i.e., mood disorder).
Another rather scary thought is that maybe the funnel being up close was a warning. Telling me that things are getting ready to be blown away or fall apart. I prefer your idea, though, and it makes the most sense.
I've read posts here where people say that they don't dream when they are on certain drugs. I wonder if that will happen to me?
Thanks again
Posted by noa on May 22, 2003, at 22:58:50
In reply to Re: Dreams » noa, posted by WorryGirl on May 22, 2003, at 15:07:31
I think periactin is one of those meds. I think it was used for combat vets with PTSD, in fact. I have heard it used to treat bad nightmares.
This is the end of the thread.
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