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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by FredPotter on February 9, 2003, at 14:20:38
I recently read on this board and in the book "Breaking the Patterns of Depression" by Michael Yapko (very good by the way), that the prevalence of clinical depression is ten times greater in people born since 1945. If we define clinical depression as depression bad enough to go to your Dr about, then it could be explained by a greater willingness to go to your Dr about it, but apparently this sort of thing has been corrected for in the study that reported it.
When I look back over the years, my bad spells always coincided with living alone or being on the verge of leaving a communal living arrangement. My stable, happy times were before my wife took the kids and left, when living with a family, flatting with mates, even being in a residential rehab clinic.
So while drugs and therapy like CBT can be partially effective, they are basically patch-up jobs. The real problem is globalisation. Most people adapt well to it. Others like me never get over the rift it causes and become ill - left behind in this latest of human evolutionary leaps.
What do people think?
Fred
Posted by Dinah on February 9, 2003, at 18:18:13
In reply to Depression and break-up of the extended family, posted by FredPotter on February 9, 2003, at 14:20:38
I hate to have to say it, but I think a lot of my problems would be less if I did live halfway across the country from my parents. If I didn't have to work and lived halfway across the country from my parents (and blocked their phone calls) I think I could do away with therapy altogether, since my condition is aggravated by stress, and those are my main two sources.
I guess I can't say that with certainty, I might have mood cycles anyway...
But I'm sure what you say is true for many people. There is a lack of ties to family and community that can be harmful. A church usually brings with it a built in community, and I'm sure there are other sources too - hobby clubs, political organizations, etc. - that can help with feelings of alienation. Do you have access to any of those things?
Posted by FredPotter on February 9, 2003, at 21:59:26
In reply to Re: Depression and break-up of the extended family » FredPotter, posted by Dinah on February 9, 2003, at 18:18:13
Thanks I'm working along the lines of your suggestion. Sorry to hear you family makes you worse. I guess a true extended family would help buffer you against that though. I'm not sure, but a 10-fold increase in depression in people born since the war is certainly dramatic and must mean something
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2003, at 11:30:42
In reply to Depression and break-up of the extended family, posted by FredPotter on February 9, 2003, at 14:20:38
> I recently read on this board and in the book "Breaking the Patterns of Depression" by Michael Yapko (very good by the way)...
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
But I don't mean to be pushy. Did you deliberately not use it to link to Amazon? If so, I'd be interested in why, over at Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by FredPotter on February 10, 2003, at 14:26:37
In reply to Re: double double quotes » FredPotter, posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2003, at 11:30:42
Thanks Dr Bob for pointing it out. It was pure ignorance on my part, and I can see it is an excellent feature. So here goes:
Posted by noa on February 10, 2003, at 17:41:59
In reply to Depression and break-up of the extended family, posted by FredPotter on February 9, 2003, at 14:20:38
Interesting. On "The Infinite Mind" (radio program) last night, the topic was family oriented programs for treating major mental illness. The guests had studied model programs that included families of adults with mental illness, (who were also on medication) and found that treatment was much more successful than for those without the family component. The family component is apparently a combo of education, family therapy, reinforcing family support systems, and affiliation with other families struggling with similar problems, etc, etc.
The show ended with John Hockenberry's commentary and he commented on the lack of extended family in recent decades--about how we have moved to the nuclear family model and live away from extended family support systems, and for single adults there is neither nuclear family nor extended.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2003, at 19:10:42
In reply to Re: double double quotes » Dr. Bob, posted by FredPotter on February 10, 2003, at 14:26:37
Posted by bozeman on February 10, 2003, at 22:03:04
In reply to Re: Depression and break-up of the extended family, posted by FredPotter on February 9, 2003, at 21:59:26
In my case for sure, lack of reliable support structure made my slide downhill worse. I remember a couple of years after the accident that started my slide into numbness, my therapist telling me that the single biggest thing wrong in my life was that I was thousands of miles away from anyone I knew or cared about, and that due to the demands of my job and the cultural situation I'd walked into, that developing a new support structure was impossible. I'm sure that there are members of my family (as in Dinah's case) that I was much blessed by being isolated from, but my parents and siblings were not among them, or my friends.
It is much, much harder, I think, to "lose" or be removed from the support system encompassed in a warm, supportive extended family, than it is to have never had that support to rely on. If you never had it, I suppose you have to develop "internal" means of support instead of relying on external ones.
my two cents worth
bozeman
Posted by FredPotter on February 11, 2003, at 15:53:50
In reply to Re: Depression and break-up of the extended family » FredPotter, posted by bozeman on February 10, 2003, at 22:03:04
Thanks Bozeman that was beautifully expressed. It explains my situation exactly. I left my extended family (my Mother's I mean) in England 7 years ago, and a warm supportive Welsh village, where I had lived. Not everybody loved everybody else by any means, but there was a feeling of there being a safety net. There was also the opportunity to support others when things weren't going well for *them*. That also has a strengthening effect. But apart from that, in a very real sense we *are* each other. I was OK in New Zealand at first, being with my wife and 2 children, but she gradually showed signs of withdrawing her love. Indeed she was replacing it with hate. This led to me getting insecure, depressed and anxious, trying to make the dreadful feelings go away by drinking.
And so it was she took the kids and left me. I then became sicker than I've ever been.
But this isn't about me. I was interested in the idea that failure to adapt to the breakup of extended family, with all its symptoms, is what depression *is*. Perhaps not some chemically based depressions or bipolar illnesses.
Posted by noa on February 11, 2003, at 19:06:06
In reply to Re: Depression and break-up of the extended family » bozeman, posted by FredPotter on February 11, 2003, at 15:53:50
My view is that it is not one or the other (loss of support or biological illness). Losses are extremely stress-inducing, and stress can trigger all kinds of reactions, coping mechanisms, adaptations, or illnesses. I think it would be normal to have depressed mood in reaction to a major stressor, such as what you have been through, but if the illness lingers or is severe, I don't think of it as just a stress reaction. I think some of us are more prone to certain illnesses, and stress can trigger these illnesses. Then, the illness itself also becomes a stressor in itself and the feedback loop goes on and on. That is one reason treatment as early in the process is so important.
Posted by bozeman on February 11, 2003, at 19:58:37
In reply to Re: Depression and break-up of the extended family » FredPotter, posted by noa on February 11, 2003, at 19:06:06
Agree. In some cases the "triggering" event (physical or psychological or some combination, as in both Fred's and my case) causes such hideous stress on the body, that it ultimately results in physical illness manifested as neurological/neurochemical chaos -> depression, et. al.
My therapist at the time (therapy begun post-accident) and my current physician both agree that if I had been in a more supportive and nurturing atmosphere at the time (in both physical and emotional ways -- things as simple as someone to hug every day, someone to vent to, someone to cook for you a couple of times a week when you're too ill/exhausted/messed up to do it, someone who relies on you for those same things so you feel needed and part of the "extended" community Fred spoke of) that my natural resilience (which was pretty strong at the time) would have likely brought me through just fine, after a couple of years to resolve the physical symptoms, loss of range of motion, scar tissue, etc. That the resultant anhedonic/depression/adrenal exhaustion/you-name-it cycle would likely have never happened.
Posted by noa on February 12, 2003, at 17:24:43
In reply to Re: Depression and break-up of the extended family » noa, posted by bozeman on February 11, 2003, at 19:58:37
Yes, there have been some widely publicized studies on the effects of social support on how susceptible people are to catching a cold from exposure to the cold virus--and as expected, those with more close relationships with friends and family were more resistant to the cold virus than those who did not have close relationships.
Posted by coral on February 19, 2003, at 6:26:56
In reply to Depression and break-up of the extended family, posted by FredPotter on February 9, 2003, at 14:20:38
A ten-fold increase in depression? I'm not doubting it but wonder how that number was determined. Has the "reporting" been factored in? We now have names and labels for disorders and more people are willing to seek help.
What came to mind was a study about child molestation and the report indicated that it had dramatically risen in the last three decades. After further research, it was discovered that the reporting of child molestation had dramatically risen. Once that had been factored in, the report showed that molestation was on the rise but not nearly as significantly as first thought.
Posted by FredPotter on February 26, 2003, at 16:44:45
In reply to Re: data, posted by coral on February 19, 2003, at 6:26:56
> A ten-fold increase in depression? I'm not doubting it but wonder how that number was determined. Has the "reporting" been factored in?
Apparently yes, but the report didn't say how. But I know what you mean. There was no RSI or OOS a hundred years ago. It was called writer's cramp, tennis elbow etc
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