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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fuzzymind on December 10, 2002, at 2:16:16
I posted this 2 days ago ont the wrong group. Not sure if it is appropriate to repost onto another group.
Posted by fuzzymind on December 8, 2002, at 4:04:03Can CBT cure both social anxiety and PTSD? I have been suffering from depression and severe social anxiety since a teenager, and I am 33 now. I was psychologically bullied and abused by classmates, by my freshman college roommate, and at those times of abuse, I was very numb and couldn't really fight back effectively or know what to do. I have never taken illegal drugs, but it seems I was stoned or just plain so numb I couldn't really know what was going on until years later.
I couldn't graduate from college after 3 1/2 years . My grades were good for the first 3 years, then I was so afraid of talking in class and going to the dorms again, I didn't go back for one semester, but my parents finally convinced me to go back the following semester, my grades were horrible, and I decided not to go back.
I had always been afraid of giving speeches and talking in class. In fact, I attempted suicide my freshman year in HS because I didn't want to give a speech. But my parents sent me to school that day anyway. My parents never got me any help, despite both being doctors. Both being Korean probably had something to do with it..the stigma.
IN junior year, I was sent away to summer school, and I spent the entire 3 months in my room, and only ate 1 meal a day..breakfast...because I didn't know anyone and was afraid to be seen eating at a crowded dining hall all by my lonesome. Had similar problems in college, but in college, I at least could buy food from other places, but I felt so ashamed I couldn't make friends. I was always the floor weirdo because I never came out only for classes, and going to the bathroom, a communal floor bathroom was difficult because I was sos ashamed of being seen.
Because of my severe social anxiety, I became more and more depressed and felt more and more numb. I always felt suicidal and always planned my death. I wold tell myself..ok after this sememster I will do it,etc...been thinking of it for 20 years.
I went for therapy in 1997, told the shrink I had social anxiety, and she concurred. But I never was motivated to try the CBT...how could I when I was so depressed and the meds I was given didn't work. I stopped after 3 months when my shrink gave me an ultimatum. During that 3 months, I also went to a Kaplan course on taking the MCATS, a standardized test for getting into med school. I was in a small class of about 5-6 people, but everytime the instructor called on me, I would get very frightened. I did well on the tests, was planning to go back, but then the anxiety and depression never went away. SO I didn't go. Shortly afterward, I was consumed with so much anger and rage, and this is when the PTSD kicks in.
I think I was able to bury past abuses, but after therapy, they all came flooding into the forefront. I kept reliving over and over again in violently vivid emotions. The emotions I felt were of great rage and shame. I so much wanted revenge, and my anger just got worse. Moral outrage is so hard to let go of.
Every waking moment, I am constatnly reliving those instances and I can't get rid of them. I just want to die. I never had a job, couldn't graduate from college. I was supposed to go to medical school....I always had the grades and test scores, but I felt like such a loser socially, I didin't even want to bother going through the interview process. Just think. After all I told you so far, if you were interviewing an extremely depressed person, whose face is frozen in anxiety and doesn't smile, and is barely audible and doesn't make eye contact, how would you evaluate them? Also, because of my anxiety, I never had any extracurricular activites I could put on my appliction.
Is there such thing as Battered Acquaintance/friend Abuse Syndrome? Memories which give me the most anger are probably my association with a jewish kid from high school. I was so lonely and didn't have any friends, but this guy was pretty much the only person who talked to me. But he was always belittling my academic accomplishments, my hair, my clothes, my opinions. He even belittled my dad's income by saying out loud in class one day that his sister, who just graduated from college and was making 20k a year, made more money than my dad who was a surgeon!!! That is how abusive this jerk was, and how numb emotionally I was. He could pick me apart all the time and use me as an emotional punching bag, but I was sos lonely, I couldn't just tell hime to never talk to me again, or tell him that he was jealous and insecure. And he would have these stupid arguments about the dumbest topics and he always had to be right, and it bothereed the hell out of me.I know he had an emptiness he need filled with using me as an emotional punching bag. But knowing that doesn't make me feel any better. In my mind many times a day, I imagine myself telling him off, that he was jealous, lonely and insecure and needed someone to step on to make himself feel better about himself. But this feeling for revenge enrages me all the time, and Iwant to end it all.
The worst part is that this guy is now a wealthy investment banker, and I am nothing. I remember the first day ofcollege, this jerk called me up to criticize me some more. That is how much of a doormat and toilet I was for this guy's emotions. He said he wanted me to go to the class reunion in 5 years time so he cold compare himself to me. What a fucking asshole. This fucking Nazi has never gives me a single thought, but I am obsessed with his abuse evey waking moment The only thing I could respond, was that I meekly said he liked to dominate people and after he asked why I didn't decide to go to the same college he did, I responded that he used me as an emotinal punching bag. I also pointed out his father didn't like him. I regret not telling him that he was a jealous emotional Nazi.
I also rmemeber him telling me taht the only reason people of my race get into college is because they have to take people like me. Never mind I had straight A's and higher Sat scores then him. What a fucking Nazi.
nother incident which shows his abuse is one time in a study center in HS, he challenged me to arm-wrestling. I said no. He baited me by calling me chicken and bawk bawk. Well he beat me, and kept challenging me again. I didn't want to do it but for some reason I couldn't repel him. Well he kept doing this over and over again. Then I had to go to a guidance counsellore for something, then he followed me nad pesteresd me to keep arm-wrestling him . Apparently this Jewish Nazi asshole had been wegiht lifting and needed to prove to himself how strong he was. Can you fucking beleive this asshole kept following me around so he could keep defeating me in arm-wrestling. What the hell could I have done? I dind't know how to cope and deal with abusive scum. But I was so lonely and had such little self-worth, that I was flypaper for people like this, and this contuned with otheres in college.
ow this is long. sorry..next time I'll post in parts.
What I described aboe is probably what battered spouses and girlfrineds go through. Any basket cases out there go through the sam experiences I did?
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2002, at 16:50:35
Originally posted by WorryGirl 12/10/02
> > Or perhaps this quirkiness or oddness is somewhat attractive to more intelligent men? Maybe such a man doesn't want the run-of-the-mill average woman but someone more interesting?
>
> I'm so glad I read these posts and thanks to everyone posting them - they help me realize that by far I'm not the only one who has always felt "different" from the time I was fairly young.
>
> I feel that many, many factors play into the frequent bullying of us "socially challenged" and often quirky people.
>
> My best friend lives four hours away and often helps with my perspective of things about how I am treated, which many times is like a pariah. She is a strong person who is very quirky, but more socially gifted than I am. She is extremely intelligent, and there are many people who don't understand her, but she commands a certain respect in social situations that I cannot come close to - she refuses to let herself get bullied. Ironically, she was somehow able to get through her younger years of frequent bullying and admits that she often comes across more confidently than she actually feels. She may walk away from a confrontation with everyone shaking their heads, but no one would make fun of her. When we used to live in the same town I remember a group of people I met who treated me like a joke after talking with me for a while. As I became more uncomfortable, instead of trying to leave the situation, it was like I was trying to prove that I was worthy. I left feeling lower than I had in a long time. My best friend met these same people a week or two later and they found her "intriguing". Confidence definitely plays a big role in the social scheme of things and it was helpful to read the confidence tips posted on this thread - thank you!
>
> I married an talented, intelligent and extremely socially adept man. I agree that the more intelligent people in this world may be drawn to oddballs because they seem less boring than your run-of-the-mill socially accepted beings. They may find us more stimulating and besides that, don't really care what everyone else thinks. They can also probably see beyond the "weirdness" and realize that we have a lot to offer. My husband loves my personality and would never want me to change as much as I continue to try and fail. Why can't I just accept myself as much as he and my best friend seem to?
>
> I was bullied from the time I was a young child
> and from birth I was an extremely colicky, fussy baby. I wasn't treated as well as my older sister because of it and ALWAYS felt inferior to her, even though I ended up having just as many talents and good qualities as she has (plus a few more of my own, just as I'm sure she has). It was like I was labeled as "the troubled child". and as I grew older, I started to notice that other children didn't gravitate towards me like they did to others, which was when I really started feeling different from everyone else. I think that builds into your growing confidence to eventually produce an anxious adult who is often uncomfortable in social situations.
>
> My whole 7th and 8th grades (went to a private school) I was mercilessly teased for the way I talked (through my nose) almost every lunch break. The teacher would leave the room during this time and the kids were pretty much on their own. I felt outnumbered when I ineffectively tried to stand up for myself. To help prevent myself from getting picked on even more, I would only talk if I had to, but it was too late. Once they realized I was easy prey they picked on me until my graduation from the 8th grade. The one friend I had made in the 7th grade eventually dumped me when they starting picking on her for being friendly with me, so I spent my entire 8th grade friendless, except for a few of the 3rd and 4th graders who befriended me! Pathetic, huh? Fortunately we moved! It's no wonder that I often feel so insecure in social situations. I wonder how many others out there feel that bullying experiences account for their social problems?
>
> Another thought: As an "oddball" woman, I feel that men in general are much more tolerant of my weirdness. It seems to be the other women who have the toughest time with me these days. Obviously, the natural sexual chemistry overlooks many flaws!
Posted by WorryGirl on December 10, 2002, at 17:10:01
In reply to Re: Oddness, quirkiness, etc. and bullying » WorryGirl, posted by Dinah on December 10, 2002, at 16:50:35
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2002, at 17:10:46
In reply to Re: Oddness, quirkiness, etc. and bullying » WorryGirl, posted by Dinah on December 10, 2002, at 16:50:35
Middle school was the major trauma of my life. The scars from that experience will always be with me, although of course things have gotten better, especially with therapy.
Through fifth grade everything was fine. Everyone had their own group of friends and that was fine. There didn't seem to be any need to put down people from other groups. But when I moved to a parochial middle school everything changed. It started four years of hell (it continued through ninth grade), the details of which I have mercifully forgotten. I'd agree with you that girls were the worst at picking up on the oddness. Boys were more live and let live. It would be interesting to find out if the opposite was true for boys who were a bit different.
Tenth grade and a new (private, not parochial) school changed my life. Tenth and twelth grades were the best of my life. If things hadn't changed, I'm not sure I'd still be here. The rageful fantasies I used to have!!!! But I think in the end I would have just killed myself. Through it all there were a few kind girls who made life tolerable.
When I was looking for a school for my son, I made sure to find one with an anti-bullying policy and a conflict resolution curriculum. The tacit complicity of the teachers and other adults was one of the worst aspects. The very people who you looked to for safety were completely aware of what was going on and didn't help in any way.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 11, 2002, at 0:53:56
In reply to Social Anxiety Disorder, depression and PTSD, posted by fuzzymind on December 10, 2002, at 2:16:16
[Posted by bookgurl99 on December 11, 2002, at 0:49:49
In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20021203/msgs/131021.html]
fuzz,
you gotta get some help. you're too young, too smart, too full of potential to just let yourself die like this.
it sounds like you have (no duh) a major social phobias. phobias are overcome by confronting them.
it sounds like thoughts of the past are eating you up because you don't have much of a present. i was treated cruelly in jr. high and high school, and -- at age 27 -- those days are nothing to me anymore. the actions of dumb kids. now i have interests and relationships that take up my present-day.
you owe it to yourself to find a qualified counselor and give it another shot. in 5 years, more has been discovered about social phobia and appropriate treatment. all you have to do -- is pick up the phone and make that first appointment. that first step towards having a life in present day.
good luck,
bookgurl99
(p.s. my gf is korean. :D)
Posted by WorryGirl on December 11, 2002, at 9:36:54
In reply to Social Anxiety Disorder, depression and PTSD, posted by fuzzymind on December 10, 2002, at 2:16:16
Fuzzy,
I feel for you. I wonder if, like me, you would benefit from some kind of group therapy. I have been looking for a good one that specifically deals with social anxiety and/or anxiety in general. If I can't find one, or until I do, there is always this site. Also, a regular therapist or psychologist can help you deal your deep-seated emotions.It is good for you to write about the things that have hurt you in the past - it's a release and because of it others can help support you.
This "friend" has a control over you that you need to stop. I would lose all contact with him; don't answer phone calls - if you run into him, just ignore him or tell him that you aren't concerned with his life or his thoughts about yours, and that you have your own to live, then LEAVE. I know it's easier said than done. I have a very difficult time with confrontation. But the anger that you feel because of the way he makes you feel will continue to eat you up. If it is too difficult for you to interact with him, just leave. Eventually he may disappear completely from your life, but it sounds like as long as he is getting some kind of response from you (and it sounds like he feeds off it) he'll find a way to keep coming back. You have to want him out of your life. This guy doesn't care about you - he has too many issues and insecurities about himself.
Hang in there, and know that there are people out there (like people at this site) who do care about you.
Posted by Tabitha on December 12, 2002, at 0:25:50
In reply to Re: Oddness, quirkiness, etc. and bullying » Dinah, posted by Dinah on December 10, 2002, at 17:10:46
Dinah,
Your post got me thinking. I wasn't bullied in school, but I was bullied at home by my older brother. My only defense was to pretend it didn't bother me and exude icy indifference. In adult life though, I once got into a weird dynamic on a job where I became the social reject, and I kept trying harder to get accepted, and the social leader just took more joy in excluding me. It was quite awful.In my web-surfing I came across this site:
http://www.teasingvictims.com/
You might disagree completely with this site, it's a pretty extreme position. In a nutshell the author says the solution to bullying is for the victim to stop responding angrily. I found it interesting reading nonetheless.
Posted by fuzzymind on December 12, 2002, at 4:49:14
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, depression, PTSD « bookgurl99, posted by Dr. Bob on December 11, 2002, at 0:53:56
> [Posted by bookgurl99 on December 11, 2002, at 0:49:49
>
> In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20021203/msgs/131021.html]
>
> fuzz,
>
> you gotta get some help. you're too young, too smart, too full of potential to just let yourself die like this.
>
> it sounds like you have (no duh) a major social phobias. phobias are overcome by confronting them.
>
> it sounds like thoughts of the past are eating you up because you don't have much of a present. i was treated cruelly in jr. high and high school, and -- at age 27 -- those days are nothing to me anymore. the actions of dumb kids. now i have interests and relationships that take up my present-day.
>
> you owe it to yourself to find a qualified counselor and give it another shot. in 5 years, more has been discovered about social phobia and appropriate treatment. all you have to do -- is pick up the phone and make that first appointment. that first step towards having a life in present day.
>
> good luck,
>
> bookgurl99
>
> (p.s. my gf is korean. :D)
IN the beginning of 2001 on and off til the end of 2001 I tried again with the same shrink with a different approach. Nothing changed. I guess I really don't want to change or don't want to go through the hard work. I am so scared. I am afraid to die, but I am more afraid of living in the real world, which had treated me so cruelly. I was counting on the safety net of being able to not having to work, but the net is gone. My parents will visit again during Easter, propbably to discuss their plans to move in with me. I had planned on gassing myself in the garsage before their arrival. Four months away.THere is SOOO much regret and anguish over what I could have been. ALl those jerks who referred to me as loser were right. I am a loser. No degree, no money, no job, no friends for 12 years. One of my fears in having to apply for a job is explaining myself what I have been doing for the past 12 years. ALos, what if I run into one of those abusive jerks, who would have such satisfaction over my predicament. Five years, ago, I did run into that abusive jewish guy at the airport when I was picking up my sister. From a distance, he recognize me and was about to come over to me, but I walked away. We were both waiting at the same hub.
Ultimately, I have literally no self-esteem. perfecionism, and all or nothing thinking. I rmemeber when I was being very defensive to abusive jerks, I would tell them that my grades were higher and I would be more successful thean they were. The only way I knew how to fight back. Well I am afraid if I go out in the real world, then I would encounter those people who would have a good laugh at me. Apparently, a lot of people from my HS are working in NYC or the tri-state area.
I don't want to die . I just want to stay like this for the rest of my life, but that won't happen it seems. I was afraid this day would come, but I was also so hoping it wouldn't. MY self- image is also very bad. I am very obese an Asian, don't smile, mumble, and doesn't make eye contact. How can someonle employ that during a recession when people with MBA's are having difficulkty finding work?
Posted by fuzzymind on December 12, 2002, at 5:08:16
In reply to Re: Oddness, quirkiness, etc. and bullying » Dinah, posted by Dinah on December 10, 2002, at 17:10:46
> Middle school was the major trauma of my life. The scars from that experience will always be with me, although of course things have gotten better, especially with therapy.
>
> Through fifth grade everything was fine. Everyone had their own group of friends and that was fine. There didn't seem to be any need to put down people from other groups. But when I moved to a parochial middle school everything changed. It started four years of hell (it continued through ninth grade), the details of which I have mercifully forgotten. I'd agree with you that girls were the worst at picking up on the oddness. Boys were more live and let live. It would be interesting to find out if the opposite was true for boys who were a bit different.
>
> Tenth grade and a new (private, not parochial) school changed my life. Tenth and twelth grades were the best of my life. If things hadn't changed, I'm not sure I'd still be here. The rageful fantasies I used to have!!!! But I think in the end I would have just killed myself. Through it all there were a few kind girls who made life tolerable.
>
> When I was looking for a school for my son, I made sure to find one with an anti-bullying policy and a conflict resolution curriculum. The tacit complicity of the teachers and other adults was one of the worst aspects. The very people who you looked to for safety were completely aware of what was going on and didn't help in any way.TH worst was when I was in a resource/study center in HS, a kid called me chink twice because I was talking to someone.....the teacher supervising was right there...2 feet way and didn't say anything. Even more upsetting, I was tallking to the bullying abusive acquaintance, no kidding...he was also talking but the racist jerk didn't say anything to him. What a prison life is.
Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2002, at 8:17:58
In reply to Re: Oddness, quirkiness, etc. and bullying » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on December 12, 2002, at 0:25:50
Hi Tabitha,
That was pretty much what my parents, the teachers, etc. said all along when I was teased. And I knew they were right, I knew it down to my bones. But I couldn't stop reacting. Still can't, for that matter. :(
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 12, 2002, at 11:46:13
In reply to Re: Oddness, quirkiness, etc. and bullying, posted by fuzzymind on December 12, 2002, at 5:08:16
> TH worst was when I was in a resource/study center in HS, a kid called me chink twice because I was talking to someone.....the teacher supervising was right there...2 feet way and didn't say anything. Even more upsetting, I was tallking to the bullying abusive acquaintance, no kidding...he was also talking but the racist jerk didn't say anything to him. What a prison life is.
---------------------I'm sorry you have to put up with such bullshit, especially when you're feeling down.
Your abusive friend sounds like a shallow freak. What do you think he's motivated by? Do content, happy people feel the need to constantly belittle others, and make overt attempts to demonstrate their worth and power? Those are the kind of actions taken by a person who needs the constant approval of the people around him. It may look like he's in charge, but to anyone with intelligence it's obvious that he's arrogant and insecure. You can't change what other people think when they witness someone bully you, but you can know that you're not the one with the need for public approval and aggrandisement, and the other smart people in the room will know as well. I know it sounds cliche to say, but those kind of actions are seriously retarded in someone past 6th grade. Whether they appear to or not, most people recognize this.
Understatement and reserve are the traits of well bred people. Use them to your advantage, and you'll simply come off classier, wiser, and more established than your desperate, ranting friend. If anyone else is impressed with his behavior, they're not really on a level worth worrying about anyway. You're better than those people. Feel it. Be it. Nobody else's opinion should ever carry more importance with you than your own. That's essential to happiness and maturity.
Posted by Tabitha on December 12, 2002, at 14:26:43
In reply to Re: Oddness, quirkiness, etc. and bullying » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2002, at 8:17:58
Should've known there was no simple solution. The icy indifference I used on my brother brought its own problems actually. It made him try even harder to offend me. He still does it, at 42!
Thank goodness middle school is over.
Posted by grrovymotion on December 12, 2002, at 18:02:52
In reply to Re: Social Anxiety, depression, PTSD « bookgurl99, posted by fuzzymind on December 12, 2002, at 4:49:14
You know what, fuzzymind, I haven't had your problem with racism, but I know what bullying is. One time several kids in class dumped part of some one's birthday cake on me. I had kids always throwing things at me. One school after another, from 5th into high school I was laughed at, thought as strange. It was only when I changed to one school, that in the last year of high school that things improved. In those days I'd try to avoid school as much as possible, and my grades hurt for a while. But I understand the low self-esteem problem. Now 35, with no life, no girlfriend, its like what the hell have I been doing on this earth. I mean its a nightmare. I wonder if its just bad karma that I have to burn off! But when can I stop burning and start living?
Posted by justyourlaugh on December 13, 2002, at 10:35:44
In reply to Re: Oddness, quirkiness, etc. and bullying » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on December 12, 2002, at 14:26:43
my brother used to chase us around with logs and belts-
we were afraid for our lives.
(and im the crazy one!)
pishahh
jyl
Posted by Sebastian on December 26, 2002, at 14:27:42
In reply to Re: Oddness, quirkiness, etc. and bullying » Tabitha, posted by justyourlaugh on December 13, 2002, at 10:35:44
I use to get beat up on all the time without any reason. I never knew any of them. Who they were or why they would beat on me, I can only speculate. One of them tryed making friends with me after. Most of them just disapeared out of my life.
Sebastian
Posted by Sebastian on December 26, 2002, at 14:29:40
In reply to Re: Oddness, quirkiness, etc. and bullying, posted by Sebastian on December 26, 2002, at 14:27:42
You should just push this guy out of your life.
This is the end of the thread.
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