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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by judy1 on July 8, 2002, at 14:14:23
I never express anger, really. The thought is terrifying to me, I feel I would totally lose control if I spoke about things from my past that would arouse anger as my therapist wishes me to. Does anyone else feel this way? Thanks, judy
Posted by mair on July 8, 2002, at 22:10:47
In reply to Holding rage in a cage, posted by judy1 on July 8, 2002, at 14:14:23
Judy
All of this sounds pretty familiar. My therapist actually thinks that to some degree my depressions are an adaptation to avoid being angry - that subconsciously depression is less scary to me than anger.
My mother pretty much never expressed her anger and then just walked out on my father one day (after 28 years of marriage and with virtually no warning) and pretty much never looked back. Sometimes my anger seems way out of proportion to any provocation, so I guess in that respect it's pretty scary to me - I've had that feeling before that you allude to - that if i start letting it out I'll explode - I guess I can see no good consequences.
Mair
Posted by terra miller on July 8, 2002, at 23:10:07
In reply to Holding rage in a cage, posted by judy1 on July 8, 2002, at 14:14:23
depends who, what and where. i seem to be able to scream just fine at my spouse. but in therapy, when it comes to facing the stuff i don't wanna face, well.... how did i put it tonight?...... i just get terrified. i'm afraid i will totally lose control and do something dangerous (like SI). grrrrrrr.
thanks for asking the good question.
terra
Posted by shar on July 9, 2002, at 0:11:01
In reply to Re: Holding rage in a cage » judy1, posted by terra miller on July 8, 2002, at 23:10:07
Yes, it has taken years for me to be able to say I am angry (to even recognize it as a feeling). I have a great therapist, who has walked that path with me.
I have found that if I deal with what I am angry with in the here and now (like I was angry at my T a while back) it isn't so scary. If I go back to a time when I was a powerless child being abused, and let out anger about that, it is very intense, and it is a lot harder because of so many OTHER things that accompany it: guilt, fear, loss, mistrust, death...etc.
I only deal with my older anger when I feel safe (in a therapy session usually). I am getting better in the here and now, saying 'I don't like it when you do x' or 'I want you to do x' etc. And, I do it differently with different people; with my T I can be extremely direct and tell her in plain English, with my sister it is different and I express it differently, same with when I'm at work.
It is not really an emotion or phenomenon that is dealt with on its own, I believe. There are so many associated feelings, emotions, experiences that it is a complex process when we are dealing with our loss of innocence through abuse.
Good luck on your journey to express what you can.
Shar
Posted by judy1 on July 9, 2002, at 10:47:08
In reply to Re: Holding rage in a cage, posted by shar on July 9, 2002, at 0:11:01
I think that's a really good distinction- the anger in the here and now (like Terra said against spouse) or therapist... and the anger in the past, probably against your abuser. One of the hospitals that has a program we're looking into, sent an article that said the abused child identifies with his/her abuser and the word that got to me was loyalty- I know all kinds of studies have been done on that, the 'Stockholm' syndrome, etc. But I do know that when i have a flashback and my therapist tries to get me to feel anger, it is terrifying. My abuser is dead so it's not abandonment or maybe to the child part it is, and maybe after you hear things over and over as a child it is difficult to think otherwise. I apologize for the different directions, but it is all part of my inability to express anger. And thank you Shar, for giving me a realistic time-table. take care, judy
Posted by judy1 on July 9, 2002, at 10:55:23
In reply to Re: Holding rage in a cage » judy1, posted by mair on July 8, 2002, at 22:10:47
that if i start letting it out I'll explode - I guess I can see no good consequences.
I guess the good consequence (if your therapist is right) is no more depressions. I'm sure you can see that logically, but the terrifying aspect of exploding- of losing control- is a lot more frightening than a known consequence- a depression. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Take care, judy
Posted by judy1 on July 9, 2002, at 11:00:11
In reply to Re: Holding rage in a cage » judy1, posted by terra miller on July 8, 2002, at 23:10:07
thanks Terra. I think you used the proper language here, losing control. What a frightening prospect that is, at least you're able to express it to your spouse- which means you can separate past and present. I can't even do that, unless i'm dissociated- and then i conveniently don't remember. take care, judy
Posted by Kari on July 9, 2002, at 12:50:24
In reply to Holding rage in a cage, posted by judy1 on July 8, 2002, at 14:14:23
Yes, anger is the most frightening emotion and I never allow myself to feel or express it for fear of losing control and not being able to "find my way back", not to mention what effect it can have on others. So if it isn't totally supressed it is likely to push me over the edge.
I don't know how people manage to maintain a balance.
Posted by Dinah on July 24, 2002, at 22:39:37
In reply to Holding rage in a cage, posted by judy1 on July 8, 2002, at 14:14:23
I have trouble expressing anger in an angry way. I have no particular problem saying I'm angry but my husband always teases me that it sounds like I'm saying the paper says it might rain.
When I get really angry, I blank out, semi-intentionally, to separate myself from the anger.
But I think it gets stored somewhere, anyway.I am terrified of releasing it completely, because I do know what happens when I do.
Oddly enough, I came from a yelling screaming family as a kid, and I yelled and screamed along with them. Wonder what happened....
Posted by judy1 on July 25, 2002, at 1:57:31
In reply to Re: Holding rage in a cage » judy1, posted by Dinah on July 24, 2002, at 22:39:37
I wonder too, not to frighten you but you have many of the symptoms I have yet you've stated you have never been abused, etc. I was curious if you have dissociative spells or periods of time you can't account for? Take care, judy
Posted by Dinah on July 25, 2002, at 6:10:28
In reply to Re: Holding rage in a cage » Dinah, posted by judy1 on July 25, 2002, at 1:57:31
I do dissociate, but not involuntarily exactly. So I don't lose time. (OK, I lose seconds here and there,like I don't remember the seconds immediately before I impulsively SI, but no longer than that). I can use dissociation to forget things, but I see it more as a skill.
It took years before my therapist believed that I wasn't abused as a child. And even now, he wouldn't be at all surprised if he learned I had been. But I actually learned my dissociative skills as a depressed and nearly out of control adolescent. I didn't like the negative attention I was drawing. Dissociation helped me "act" OK even when I wasn't inside. And since that's all that mattered to anyone, I practiced those skills until they were second nature, until they were really beyond my conscious control.
The SI this time happened because my husband can't see when I'm using dissociation as a coping mechanism and in anger and frustration (during a verbal disagreement) disrupted the process. My therapist is the only one who has figured out when I am doing it. Like yesterday at the end of therapy, when I had to go sit in a stairwell for 45 minutes (as near as I can make out) to come out of it.
Sigh. It's complex, because without better coping skills in place, he doesn't want to interfere with these "skills".
Posted by judy1 on July 25, 2002, at 10:49:02
In reply to Re: Holding rage in a cage » Dinah » judy1, posted by Dinah on July 25, 2002, at 6:10:28
for explaining- you certainly didn't have to, but it does help me understand better. Are you working on grounding skills with your therapist? I do that a lot with mine so I don't dissociate in the first place. I agree it's an easy coping mechanism and a hard one to break. My therapist is the only one who knows when I dissociate, even my shrink can't tell. I guess you have to have a lot of experience plus she has a dissociative disorder herself. Take care, judy
Posted by dove on July 30, 2002, at 18:25:46
In reply to Re: Holding rage in a cage » Dinah » judy1, posted by Dinah on July 25, 2002, at 6:10:28
When one talks about dissociative disorders, what exactly defines one? What does "SI" mean? I have a lot of blackouts (I call them blank-outs), some intentional, and some not. They enable me to survive, to keep living, without those blanks I don't think I could go on. Certain meds do hinder my ability to blank-it, yet the same meds also dull my ability to feel anger or rage in a "personal" manner (like it's happening to someone else--not me? Does that make any sense?). I feel much more apathetic and "apart" than anything else. I've never really spoken about this, and have never told my p-doc, I just figured it was normal, especially when the meds seem to trigger it.
Anger and rage have been my evil inner adversaries ever since I got married eleven years ago; and it is much easier to be suicidal than to deal with what is causing the anger. The thought of losing control is very scary, and a very real potential should I decide to attempt to speak to my significant other of my anger. He is a serious hazard to my health whenever I feel anger, or any other emotion he deems "ugly" or "unacceptable" in his presence. Crying is deemed weak, pitiful and disgusting. Anger is tantamount to mutiny, even if only whispered and righteously deserved. Asking him where he has been when he has been gone two days is called "jealousy" and an attempt on my part to control his every waking moment. The only emotions that I may express and are acceptable are that of pure contentment and utter idiocy and ignorance.
He has a severe problem with expressing any positive emotions, in fact, he really hasn't for the past year and a half. He was seeing a therapist and was able to completely snowball her, and she felt I needed to get my act together. This, despite the fact that my husband wants me off all my meds and the meds are what have kept our marriage--and myself--alive thus far.
So, blanking-out keeps me out of harm's way, yet, it stops me from being able to move forward and get better. I know I'm rambling and all over the board, but this discussion has really hit a chord in me. I thank you all for what you have shared!!!
dove
Posted by Dinah on July 30, 2002, at 19:42:15
In reply to Re: Holding rage in a cage, posted by dove on July 30, 2002, at 18:25:46
Hi dove,
SI means self injury.
Dissociation is normal, everyone does it to some extent. It's one way to deal with impossible situations. It becomes a disorder when it begins to cause problems in your life. I would mention it to your pdoc though. It's always a good idea to be completely open about symptoms with your mental health practioner.
But what is more important, dove, is that it sounds like your situation IS impossible. Have you talked about your problems with your husband with your pdoc or with a therapist? It is so very important that you keep yourself safe, and you need all the help you can get to do that.
Please take care of yourself and do what you need to do to keep yourself safe.
Dinah
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