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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:03
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition » LostBoyinNC43, posted by SLS on December 24, 2012, at 5:20:35
No I am not diagnosed with schizophrenia myself. However, I am diagnosed with major depression, chronic and severe. The reason I think schizophrenia should be formally re-categorized is due to the fact it is the "most biological" of the mental illnesses. And if you could possibly get schizophrenia formally re-categorized as Neurological, bipolar could probably be followed up behind it. With some forms of clinical depression behind that.
Hence, I believe I could benefit by getting the ball rolling with schizophrenia. This is not my original idea btw. Freud strongly believed schizophrenia was primarily, a neuro illness and did not believe it was very treatable by talk psychotherapy or milder forms of treatments that might work (or might not) for neurosis, mild to moderate depression and so on. Additionally, Neuropsychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey, MD has been outspoken on his belief that this needs to occur at some point. That guy has been interviewed on the TV show Sixty Minutes at least once for his views.
I just believe now is a good time to get the ball rolling. And get these more severe forms of mental illness (I personally consider them medical illnesses, myself but I dont say that much publicly because I dont believe many will understand.
BTW, dementia is currently formally classified as a Neurological illness, not a psychiatric one. If you believe dementia is a Neurological brain based illness, you ought to believe schizophrenia is also a Neurological illness and sign my petition.
thanks,
Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"
> This is a great topic that you have brought up.
>
> What is your definition of "mental illness", and in what ways is schizophrenia different as a phenomenon that it should be excluded from that definition?
>
> Actually, I think your proposal will do very little more than amplify the stigma associated with the term "mental illness". Alzheimer's Dementia is also a mental illness, and is no less biological in its phenomenology than Parkinson's Disease. Bipolar Disorder and Major Depressive Disorder have also been demonstrated to have genetic and physiological underpinnings. What about ADHD? Should this disorder be removed from the domain of mental illness, despite the fact that it alters mental function? Surely, schizophrenia alters mental function.
>
> Do you have schizophrenia? What about any other psychiatic challenges? If so, do you feel somehow stigmatized when anyone refers to you as having a mental illness? Is it possible that you yourself stigmatize mental illness by wanting to separate yourself from it? If your goal is solely to get more funding for research into schizophrenia, why not just get the government to appropriate a greater share of its NIH budget to the NIMH? Why leave everyone else out in the cold?
>
> I am very happy to see people like you become activists for the mentally ill. However, I am not sure that I can support your idea at this point.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:04
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition » LostBoyinNC43, posted by Phil on December 24, 2012, at 8:54:50
Yeah that is great for her that she is a high performing schizophrenic and is able to make it without medical intervention. Great for her. Unfortunately, facts are facts and the facts are that most schizophrenics are not doing all that well. Even if they are medication compliant. The combination of the limitations of currently available medications (they dont treat the negative symptoms much), they have high side effect profiles and the stigma that is associated with this brain illness makes EFFECTIVE treatment difficult.
Getting it out of the psychiatry/psychology arena into the Neurology arena would at the absolute minimum, probably decrease stigma. Instead of being seen as a "psycho," the person with schizophrenia would gradually begin to be seen more as like a person diagnosed with epilepsy or narcolepsy...Neurological diseases of the CNS.
I ask you again, please sign my petition. It will do no harm and only do good. Im honestly not expecting an actual recategorization out of a petition, but if it can get published on the White House site (150 signatures are needed for that), people across the country will see it and probably begin thinking about it. And who knows it might be able to get to the needed 25,000 signatures for a mandatory Presidential response, complete with video and all of obama talking about the subject.
Right now is the time to get this petition rolling, with all the focus on mental illness and violence...its a popular subject in the news right now. Six months from now, probably not so.
Eric
> Hey Eric..This lady is a very high performing schizophrenic and is on a panel with many other 'brain people' on Charlie Rose's series The Brain. It's fascinating. She has been through hell and back. I thought you might be interested in what she has to say. It's been a while since I watched it but here it is.
> I don't recall if she is on meds but she does therapy almost every day. Merry Christmas
>
> http://www.charlierose.com/guest/view/6925
Posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:04
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition, posted by Phillipa on December 24, 2012, at 9:33:31
Actually, I am heavily into gun culture myself and that is where this idea came from, to be honest. Many pro-gun people as well as anti-gun people across the USA want the mentally ill to have no access to firearms. We all know that the vast majority of the mentally ill, even the severely mentally ill are not violent psychopaths like the kid that did the Sandy Hook shooting.
That is yet another reason (among many reason) I believe the psychotic forms of mental illness need to be moved out of the psychiatric category into the Neurology category. The drugs used to treat psychosis are potent central nervous system drugs. Be real about schizophrenia, its a BRAIN DISEASE.
Please sign my petition. I realize many on this forum have severe anxiety issues and maybe afraid of signing it even if they agree with it. That is sad that some might agree with it privately, but their illness keeps them from taking action.
Thanks,
Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"
> Since Sandy Hook was mentioned it's my understanding that gun control is being looked at again. Although the shooter did have some sort of mental illness. No one really knows what. Recently I have encountered some that do stigmatize what you refer to as was it simple? Anxiety & Depression. I admire your efforts but what the others have said is true. Phillipa
Posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:04
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition » LostBoyinNC43, posted by SLS on December 24, 2012, at 5:20:35
Sign the petition if you believe the severe forms of "mental" illness are mostly brain based. Or Neuro-endocrine based. Im not bashing the need for a positive environment in order to recover. That is needed as well. But we need better medications. We need less stigma. We need to be looked at by the lay public the same as the lay public thinks of epileptics or someone with narcolepsy. As just someone with an illness. Not a "mental" illness.
All it needs is 150 signatures to make it public, then it will snowball on its own. If it makes the required 25,000 signature cutoff point, the President is REQUIRED to formally respond via a video, statements, etc.
Thanks,
Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"
Posted by Phil on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:04
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition, posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 24, 2012, at 9:55:35
Why don't you reread my post. I said I didn't know if she's on meds. I'm well aware how difficult schizophrenia is, my three buddies in the psych ward were ladies with schizophrenia. Ate with them everyday.
The lady I'm talking about has been through absolute hell with the disease but if you don't watch it you will remain defensive and clueless.
Keep your petition.
Posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:05
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition » LostBoyinNC43, posted by Phil on December 24, 2012, at 10:26:34
Here is another official White House petition that is related, but not started by me. It has to do with expediting scientific research into identifying "biological markers" of serious mental illness, so the illnesses can be diagnosed better and possibly, earlier.
Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC
Posted by Phil on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:05
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition, posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 24, 2012, at 10:31:20
"So starting now, the threshold a petition has to reach in order to generate an official response is 25,000 signatures in 30 days. This change only affects petitions created from this point forward, and will not be applied to petitions of any signature count already in the system."
Good luck
Posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:05
In reply to Your numbers are off » LostBoyinNC43, posted by Phil on December 24, 2012, at 10:37:28
No, my numbers are not off. When I originally created it, last night, it told me for that to be seen publically on the White House petition site, it needs 150 signatures. Then EVERYBODY who views that site can see it.
Its the first 150 signatures that are critical.
For it to get a formal response, it does need 25,000 signatures. But as I mentioned, once it gets 150 signatures, getting a lot more than 150 should not be too awful difficult.
Whether it will hit 25,000 or not, I have no idea if it will hit that. But UNLIKE YOU, AT LEAST I TRY TO IMPROVE THINGS FOR THE SEVERELY MENTALLY ILL.
Im posting on mental illness support forums first, as an experiment. I suspected I would not get much support here or at similar locations on the WWW. Due to a variety of reasons. However, there will be other places I will shift to and those are the places I know I will get signatures.
It is my opinion that many severely mentally ill individuals do not want help. They just want to complain, be sick, be entitled to government welfare assistance and post on psychobabble.
And society wonders why the legal term for anyone formally adjudicated as unable to manage their own affairs is literally, "a mental incompetent."
Thanks!!!
Eric
> "So starting now, the threshold a petition has to reach in order to generate an official response is 25,000 signatures in 30 days. This change only affects petitions created from this point forward, and will not be applied to petitions of any signature count already in the system."
>
> Good luck
Posted by SLS on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:06
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition, posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 24, 2012, at 9:47:22
> BTW, dementia is currently formally classified as a Neurological illness, not a psychiatric one.
You might want to take a second look at that statement.
DSM-IV
ICD-10Alzheimer's Dementia, like schizophrenia, is a neurological mental illness.
- Scott
Posted by Phil on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:06
In reply to Re: Your numbers are off, posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 24, 2012, at 12:19:07
You don't know me as*hole and here's the official White House rules.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/08/31/we-people-how-white-house-petitions-work
Posted by SLS on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:06
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition, posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 24, 2012, at 10:31:20
Let us pretend for a moment that your petition is denied. What would you do next?
Why not work to educate others and remove stigma from all mental illness and lobby for a change in focus rather than attempt to procure a politically-driven change in nosology? You would probably help many more people that way.
I still think your idea would create more problems that it could possibly fix.
- Scott
Posted by Phil on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:06
In reply to Re: Your numbers are off, posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 24, 2012, at 12:19:07
How bout more, handsome? And there are many, many more.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000619/msgs/38659.html
Posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:07
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition » LostBoyinNC43, posted by SLS on December 24, 2012, at 13:09:24
I dont care if it is denied or not. Im doing this on my time off, this is not like a life or death, make or break thing for me. I have some time off over the holidays, decided to do this. Sheesh.
Now I know why I no longer bother to post on mental health "support" boards. They are mostly full of mental incompetents who just want to argue and whine and think they are entitled to stuff like government benefits.
I take my Zoloft, testosterone cypionate shots, use my CPAP and keep on truckin on. Unlike most of the rest of you who just go from one stupid drug to the next stupid drug that does not work.
Eric
> Let us pretend for a moment that your petition is denied. What would you do next?
>
> Why not work to educate others and remove stigma from all mental illness and lobby for a change in focus rather than attempt to procure a politically-driven change in nosology? You would probably help many more people that way.
>
> I still think your idea would create more problems that it could possibly fix.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:07
In reply to One trick pony » LostBoyinNC43, posted by Phil on December 24, 2012, at 13:24:36
I wrote that in 2000. That was twelve years ago, before I got on CPAP. Whats it got to do with what Im doing here now? Trying to create some sort of diversion?
Ive read some of your comments on the NRA and guns. I think I have a good idea of the general sort of person Im debating with on this message board. Youre the sort who does not really want to get better.
Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"
> How bout more, handsome? And there are many, many more.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000619/msgs/38659.html
>
>
Posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:07
In reply to One trick pony » LostBoyinNC43, posted by Phil on December 24, 2012, at 13:24:36
BTW Phil,
You do sound like you are off your meds.
Eric
Posted by Emme_V2 on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:08
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition, posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 24, 2012, at 14:08:42
> of mental incompetents who just want to argue and > whine and think they are entitled to stuff like > government benefits.
Those are horribly, horribly unkind and unfair things to say about people. Your wish to improve research into mental illness is great, but you're not going to accomplish anything by lashing out at because a handful happen to disagree with your proposal.
Posted by SLS on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:08
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition, posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 24, 2012, at 14:08:42
> I dont care if it is denied or not. Im doing this on my time off, this is not like a life or death, make or break thing for me. I have some time off over the holidays, decided to do this. Sheesh.
I was just suggesting that perhaps you should have an alternate plan in the event that your first plan fails. There is no need to get so defensive.
> Now I know why I no longer bother to post on mental health "support" boards. They are mostly full of mental incompetents...
I am sorry that you should view me as a mental incompetent. I must conclude that you do as you were replying to my post. Did you think you would have people put their names on your petition without asking questions or voicing opinions?
> who just want to argue and whine and think they are entitled to stuff like government benefits.
You are arguing.
> I take my Zoloft, testosterone cypionate shots, use my CPAP and keep on truckin on.Stop doing those things if you feel you can truck on without whining. Since you are not schizophrenic, your problems must be mental instead of neurological. Get strong and stop taking those crutches you call drugs and breathing aids. Let's see how long you go without requesting help from the resources that you are fortunate enough to have available to you.
> Unlike most of the rest of you who just go from one stupid drug to the next stupid drug that does not work.
So, let me get this straight. If we all take Zoloft, testosterone, and use a CPAP, you can guarantee all sufferers good health such that no one need to explore using the drugs that you determine to be stupid? Is this the sort of thing you want scientists to do with the funds you would hope to attract with your petition? Why not just give the scientists the list of drugs that Eric has determined to be stupid so that they can save money and you not need to launch a petition?
Yeah.
I was not born to agree with you. Get over it and show some respect. I support you as a person. I do not support all of your ideas. That's all.
- Scott
Posted by Phil on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:08
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition » LostBoyinNC43, posted by SLS on December 24, 2012, at 15:12:26
This is what this guys about. Name changes and blocks.
____________You've received warnings before so I'm blocking you. I'll let Dr. Bob determine the duration.
Last time it was for 32 weeks, so this time it's for 64. Please then just use your original LostBoyinNC posting name, thanks.
Bob
Posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:09
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition, posted by Phil on December 24, 2012, at 16:20:15
You need to be in the hospital IMO. On the administration page you post a long rambling message that amounts to a "Im sorry Ive been rapid cycling lately" message, directed to everybody, including me.
Then you post this. Malicious. Serves no purpose other than to try and start fights.
You need your mood stabilizing meds adjusted. Or something. Perhaps a trip to the ER is in order tonight for you? Is it a full moon tonight?
Eric
> This is what this guys about. Name changes and blocks.
> ____________
>
> You've received warnings before so I'm blocking you. I'll let Dr. Bob determine the duration.
>
> Last time it was for 32 weeks, so this time it's for 64. Please then just use your original LostBoyinNC posting name, thanks.
>
> Bob
>
>
Posted by Phil on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:09
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition, posted by Phil on December 24, 2012, at 16:20:15
I'm not reading your posts so if the one above is to me your wasting your time.
Posted by SLS on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:09
In reply to Re: Please sign this official White House petition, posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 24, 2012, at 17:56:59
> Is it a full moon tonight?
That's silly.
Anyway...
I hope that your Holidays bring you the gift of continued health.
By the way, the moon won't be full for another four days. If you stick around long enough, perhaps I'll say something silly, too. Well, I guess I can't use the lunar cycle as an excuse for too much longer. People are beginning to suspect that I say silly things every day.
I was thinking that it might be interesting if you were to continue posting on Psycho-Babble as a regular member of the community. You may discover that people here support each other, despite occasional adversarial interactions. By continuing to post here regularly, I have managed to improve my communication and socialization skills. I feel that this place has helped facilitate my continued maturation and self-improvement. Lessons are not always easy or quick to learn, but I find that it is worth doing the work to enhance my emotional stability.
Perhaps Psycho-Babble is not the right place for you to socialize. It might not be a good fit for you. I doubt anyone would take it personally were you to acknowledge this. If you do stay, you might find yourself feeling like an outsider at first. You may need to allow some time to become oriented and make adjustments - just like with any other group you interact with for the first time.
I still don't support your petition idea at this time.
- Scott
Posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:09
In reply to Lunacy. » LostBoyinNC43, posted by SLS on December 24, 2012, at 22:12:39
Hi SLS,
Yes, it was a fascitious, silly joke. A jab at Phil.
As far as me staying here to "help develop my social and communications skills," I dont have the severe social and communications skills some here seem to have. I am of the belief that to develop and maintain social and communications skills, the best approach is to GET OFF the Internet as much as possible. The Internet is isolating yourself, even if you are posting to anonymous folks on the WWW such as psychobabble.
I interact with people just fine offline and as you can tell, I dont post much on these boards anymore. And I am better for it.
I dont need your signature. I'd forget about it if I were you. I thought I'd give the "patients" the chance to sign it first, before I take it other places, to other kinds of people. Maybe I will get the signatures I need, maybe I wont. Frankly, it wont make a big deal to me one way or another. Although it would be kinda cool to hit the 25,000 mark.
Merry Christmas,
Eric AKA LostBoyinNC
> > Is it a full moon tonight?
>
> That's silly.
>
> Anyway...
>
> I hope that your Holidays bring you the gift of continued health.
>
> By the way, the moon won't be full for another four days. If you stick around long enough, perhaps I'll say something silly, too. Well, I guess I can't use the lunar cycle as an excuse for too much longer. People are beginning to suspect that I say silly things every day.
>
> I was thinking that it might be interesting if you were to continue posting on Psycho-Babble as a regular member of the community. You may discover that people here support each other, despite occasional adversarial interactions. By continuing to post here regularly, I have managed to improve my communication and socialization skills. I feel that this place has helped facilitate my continued maturation and self-improvement. Lessons are not always easy or quick to learn, but I find that it is worth doing the work to enhance my emotional stability.
>
> Perhaps Psycho-Babble is not the right place for you to socialize. It might not be a good fit for you. I doubt anyone would take it personally were you to acknowledge this. If you do stay, you might find yourself feeling like an outsider at first. You may need to allow some time to become oriented and make adjustments - just like with any other group you interact with for the first time.
>
> I still don't support your petition idea at this time.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:10
In reply to Re: Lunacy., posted by LostBoyinNC43 on December 24, 2012, at 23:10:01
> Hi SLS,
Hello, LostBoyinNC43.
> Yes, it was a fascitious, silly joke. A jab at Phil.
>
> As far as me staying here to "help develop my social and communications skills," I dont have the severe social and communications skills some here seem to have.I agree with you that they might not be severe.
> I am of the belief that to develop and maintain social and communications skills, the best approach is to GET OFF the Internet as much as possible.
Balance is important. However, people are not always disposed to creating social lives for themselves otherwise. Depression can be crippling, with simple trips to the bathroom being an effort to accomplish. Getting off the couch when one is anergic, amotivational, or suffering from psychomotor retardation is an unlikely event, although not for any lack of desire to rejoin society. I would have thought that you would empathize with such tragic human conditions.
> The Internet is isolating yourself, even if you are posting to anonymous folks on the WWW such as psychobabble.
I found the opposite to be true. Interacting with people on the Internet is better than no interaction at all.
> I interact with people just fine offline and as you can tell,
How would I be able to tell such a thing? Apparently, you have posted on the Internet untold numbers of times over the past 15 years, including on Usenet groups.
> I dont post much on these boards anymore. And I am better for it.
I don't doubt this. I hope you continue to feel well enough to remain engaged with the world outside of cyberspace.
> I dont need your signature.
Then, I guess both of our needs do not go unmet.
> I'd forget about it if I were you.
You are not me. I will not forget about it just so that you might have an easier time accomplishing your goal. If I have made things more difficult for you, perhaps I have accomplished mine. You really wouldn't know what my goals are, now, would you?
> I thought I'd give the "patients" the chance to sign it first, before I take it other places,
I imagine you find this to be an act of altruistism. You are no less a "patient" than anyone else on Psycho-Babble. You are still being treated with psychotropics, and seem to be convinced that this is a necessity for you to function in society.
> to other kinds of people.
"Us" versus "them"? What kind of people are we? Do you feel that there is a lack of diversity among people who are mentally ill? Isn't that a form of stereotyped profiling? It is Christmas. Stop throwing stones alone in the public square. Everyone is watching. Your actions probably perpetuate stigma, not reduce it.
> Maybe I will get the signatures I need, maybe I wont. Frankly, it wont make a big deal to me one way or another.
Is that how much your mission means to you? I thought you might be devoted to the improvement in the conditions of the mentally ill. You contradict yourself in ways that I find to be unsettling.
> Although it would be kinda cool to hit the 25,000 mark.
So, you do care... but why?
> Merry Christmas,
Yes.
- Scott
Posted by Phil on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:10
In reply to Re: Lunacy. » LostBoyinNC43, posted by SLS on December 25, 2012, at 6:42:30
The woman with schizophrenia that I spoke about.
http://www.ted.com/talks/elyn_saks_seeing_mental_illness.html
Posted by SLS on December 26, 2012, at 10:23:10
In reply to Re: Lunacy., posted by Phil on December 25, 2012, at 8:39:59
> The woman with schizophrenia that I spoke about.
>
>
> http://www.ted.com/talks/elyn_saks_seeing_mental_illness.html
Totally excellent.Thanks.
- Scott
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