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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rayww on December 3, 2008, at 13:09:24
I hear there isn't much taught at the universities that isn't liberal left or socialism. There used to be a class on the United States Constitution or something like it. Anyone ever heard of "The 5000 Year Leap"?
Posted by gardenergirl on December 3, 2008, at 14:08:07
In reply to Who is University?, posted by rayww on December 3, 2008, at 13:09:24
Odd, I found my stats class, for example, to be pretty much neutral.
Perhaps if educators were valued as much as CEOs, there might be a bit more diversity among faculty points of view.
gg
Posted by fayeroe on December 3, 2008, at 14:18:28
In reply to Who is University?, posted by rayww on December 3, 2008, at 13:09:24
>^^^^ I hear there isn't much taught at the universities that isn't liberal left or socialism. There used to be a class on the United States Constitution or something like it. Anyone ever heard of "The 5000 Year Leap"?^^^
You must be talking about Canadian colleges.
I don't know where you heard that about us but your source is not telling the truth. No college could be accredited in the US unless they taught classes on the United
States Constitution.There are Liberal Arts Colleges here. Might you be confused? I think that maybe that is where the misinformation comes from.
What is taught in your country? Do the colleges there teach history? Classes on the history of
Canada? Are all of your universities conservative in Canada?Is the 5000 year leap a Canada thing? (I can ask Andre who lives in Montreal.)
I know that you will know more about Canada's government than I know. Vice versa.
Posted by Sigismund on December 3, 2008, at 15:08:15
In reply to Re: Who is University?, posted by fayeroe on December 3, 2008, at 14:18:28
The problem in Australia is that there just is no right wing intelligentsia.
There is a conservative intelligentsia, all on the left since the demise of the USSR and the advent of the Howard Govt.
And we have people who do culture wars, pointing out the contradictions of the other side; they never have anything to say.
Sometimes they do: Piers Ackerman amused us at one writers festival by saying he prefers to spends time with real people like volunteer firefighters rather than with other journalists.
I laughed and said to one of these 'He does NOT spend time with the volunteer firefighters', and the bloke I said that to replied 'Oh, he's completely shameless'.I heard a tape of William Buckley after his death. I could see why he became influential.
Posted by Sigismund on December 3, 2008, at 15:12:41
In reply to Re: Who is University?, posted by Sigismund on December 3, 2008, at 15:08:15
And there's those News Ltd journalists, unread and unbought by me.
Posted by rayww on December 3, 2008, at 16:08:22
In reply to Re: Who is University?, posted by fayeroe on December 3, 2008, at 14:18:28
We all come from somewhere. I have roots in England, my husband has roots in Sweden. Our great grandparents were from the US, but we were both born in Canada. My husband went to University in the states, I graduated from High School in California. I have inherited all the history from the Mormon experience, and that's how I got to Canada.
Oh, and I download Glenn Beck's radio show every day :-)
"The 5000 year leap" is a book about the 28 ideas that changed the world.
Posted by fayeroe on December 3, 2008, at 16:40:04
In reply to Re: Who is University? » fayeroe, posted by rayww on December 3, 2008, at 16:08:22
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on December 7, 2008, at 10:01:55
In reply to Who is University?, posted by rayww on December 3, 2008, at 13:09:24
> I hear there isn't much taught at the universities that isn't liberal left or socialism. There used to be a class on the United States Constitution or something like it. Anyone ever heard of "The 5000 Year Leap"?
>What they teach at University is balanced and rational. And I am Canadian, so there are elective courses in American politics if you want to take them. It's all based on the scientific method (Social-Science), the data, and rational reason.
If you don't agree with those concepts and tools, that is perfectly fine. We all find our way somehow. But, I paid and worked very, very hard for my courses. The intellectual capacity to get good marks in a good university requires work that is 100 times harder then any job I ever had. This is my experience anyways. I think you have to remember YMMV.Jay
Posted by Dinah on December 7, 2008, at 10:43:53
In reply to Who is University?, posted by rayww on December 3, 2008, at 13:09:24
You might be thinking of this study? (And similar ones)
http://www.bepress.com/forum/vol3/iss1/art2/
Some claim it to be methodologically flawed, with a sample size too small. Others complain that it doesn't include community colleges. While I have the greatest respect for community colleges, I don't know that their inclusion would fit the nature of the study.
I haven't been to university for a few years, but from what I recall a great number of things were taught that didn't have much to do with ideology at all. Maths, sciences, business admin stuff. It wouldn't have surprised me to learn that my chemistry professor never even turned on the news.
But studies consistently show that professors self identify with the left more than the right, and moreso in elite universities. That does not in any way prove that there is any bias in the selection of professors (since there could be a fair amount of self selection involved). It also doesn't mean that there is any bias in the treatment of students or ideas. Indeed, my experience was that my professors did respect the viewpoints of their students, and didn't try to indoctrinate them. About the only thing I can say is that after World Religion studies (which was taught by someone with credentials that would imply that he himself was religious) I became agnostic for several years. And oddly enough I ran into someone else who took his class several years after I did, and who also became agnostic for several years. However, since both of us eventually found a more deeply understood personal faith, it could be argued that he wasn't anti religion. It's also possible he just wished us to think and come up with our own relationship with God. I attended two universities, but I don't in any way imagine that my experience was generalizable. Both universities were similarly situated.
I'm not saying that I'm not worried about my son's choice of university. There are universities that appear to promote values that are incompatible with the values we hold as a family. But there are lots of universities out there. And as he grows older and develops into a young man with his own values and ideas, I grow less and less worried. I suspect that he will pick a university where he can feel comfortable, and I have no doubt that I will feel totally comfortable with it as well.
That's why there's so much choice out there.
And... Well, as with my experience, university does open the mind and shake a bit of what's already in it out, and open the minds to new ideas. Some young people can be caught up in the glorious freedom of ideas and give their parents a bit of a surprise. But in the end, I think that their own natures and their own values will prevail. After all, once they leave university, other influences will also come into play.
Posted by Sigismund on December 7, 2008, at 16:59:23
In reply to Re: Who is University? » rayww, posted by Dinah on December 7, 2008, at 10:43:53
>Some young people can be caught up in the glorious freedom of ideas and give their parents a bit of a surprise
Some parents felt really threatened with the 60's explosion of ideas.
Those who coped best were those who took an interest in what their kids were on about, rather than seeing them as the enemy or class traitors.
It is quite reasonable to ask a budding Marxist (to use this example) to explain (for starters) the dialectic.
Once these things are openly talked about, it may often turn out that positions need not be so polarised.
Posted by Dinah on December 8, 2008, at 13:21:51
In reply to Re: Who is University?, posted by Sigismund on December 7, 2008, at 16:59:23
Too true. :)
I had prepared my look of interested inquiry.
But unless my son changes drastically, I don't think I need worry overmuch.
I don't know if I've ever expressed my own political beliefs on this board. But my main political belief is that most people on all ends of the spectrum have more or less the same end goals. Broadly defined. And that since intelligent and responsible people hold all sorts of different points of view, we should assume that there is something worthwhile or valid or fulfilling about them. My job is to listen to all points of view, and to sort out how I really feel about them. Well, I must confess that I might not wish to listen to all manners of expressing a point of view.
Barack Obama and Bobby Jindal, in my own political viewpoint, are closer to each other than they are to many people of their own party. They both appear to be intelligent, able to listen, and concerned with the outcome rather than the ideology. I voted for both, and have high hopes for both. Mind you, I've been disappointed before.
Anyway, the connection to this thread is that my father and I used to talk about religion and politics all the time. He used to drive me crazy by switching sides. I considered it his love of a good argument and his desire to see me get annoyed. And he did love both of those things. But lo and behold, I find myself doing the same thing with my son. Not switching sides, because I'm generally careful not to take a side. But in presenting counterpoint to his thoughts. He thinks things through very well already of course. But there is always the temptation to think about one side of an issue and come to a conclusion. Saying "people who feel differently on that topic say that...." introduces a different point of view, and clarifies the difficulties of consensus.
So... I'd like to think I'd take whatever he brought home well. And that he'd despair of shocking me.
This is the end of the thread.
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