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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rayww on August 30, 2008, at 19:02:20
Do you think the government should develop refugee camps for the homeless? What about for hurricane refugees, or other natural disasters? Where are the people supposed to go? What is the government's responsibility?
Are we becoming Socialist in our expectations? As I watch the news and see the thousands of people lined up at the bus stations with nowhere to go, I wonder. I'm sure they would not be there if they had another alternative.
Posted by Sigismund on August 31, 2008, at 15:34:17
In reply to American Refugees, posted by rayww on August 30, 2008, at 19:02:20
I grew up on land that had been cleared of its indiginous inhabitantants less than a hundred years before, yet was in my 20s before I saw a homeless person.
I found the homelessness in Europe more shocking than that of Asia (and would have felt the same about the US), because there was the means but not the will to do something about it.
So yes, if that's socialist expectation, then I have it. In our little town we even have breakfasts for the homeless.
After WWII the spirit of the times did not permit people to be seen homeless, did it? And there was full employment too, which may have been important.
Posted by caraher on August 31, 2008, at 22:20:28
In reply to American Refugees, posted by rayww on August 30, 2008, at 19:02:20
Some people use the word "socialist" as if that were a bad thing...
Posted by rayww on September 1, 2008, at 10:59:32
In reply to Re: socialist expectations, posted by caraher on August 31, 2008, at 22:20:28
> Some people use the word "socialist" as if that were a bad thing...
Democracy was only meant to work if people followed the rules, of their own will, not being told. Look at the mess our democracy has gotten us into. Then we try to correct it with socialism, and we suddenly find we are on a slippery slope to Communism.
Those who wrote the constitution (US) were steeped in European tradition. They were fully aware of what can happen if someone gets power hungry, and they tried to protect US from that in the constitution.
Progressives think the constitution is evolutional, that it should "grow" with the times. I, for one, believe the US constitution was inspired of God for our day, and that as imperfect a system as democracy is, it is still better than any other alternative.
Posted by rayww on September 1, 2008, at 11:16:43
In reply to Re: American Refugees » rayww, posted by Sigismund on August 31, 2008, at 15:34:17
It is good that you provide breakfast for the homeless.
Maybe the drug trade has caused a high percentage of our homeless here in the US. Power hungry drug cartels.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on September 2, 2008, at 8:16:51
In reply to Re: socialist expectations » caraher, posted by rayww on September 1, 2008, at 10:59:32
> > Some people use the word "socialist" as if that were a bad thing...
>
> Democracy was only meant to work if people followed the rules, of their own will, not being told. Look at the mess our democracy has gotten us into. Then we try to correct it with socialism, and we suddenly find we are on a slippery slope to Communism.
>
> Those who wrote the constitution (US) were steeped in European tradition. They were fully aware of what can happen if someone gets power hungry, and they tried to protect US from that in the constitution.
>
> Progressives think the constitution is evolutional, that it should "grow" with the times. I, for one, believe the US constitution was inspired of God for our day, and that as imperfect a system as democracy is, it is still better than any other alternative.
>
>Ray:
The term "Communist" that countries like China and the former USSR labeled themselves as where anything BUT Communist. They where more like a right-wing quasi-fascist dictatorship. I've read the works of Engels and Marx, and they are very, very different from what any of the above nations turned out to be. One of the final outcomes of Marxism is abolishment of the state in it's entirety. The middle class becomes 'the' class, and just carries on independently. Funny that reduction of government just happens to be a right-wing issue as well..lol.
True Marxist socialism has *never* been carried out, but many of it's ideas can be found in European countries which have progressive "social democracy". There is more then one type of democracy. Europeans have some of the best quality-of-life standards in the world. I think it is time us N. Americans look that way.
Jay
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on September 2, 2008, at 8:23:15
In reply to Re: American Refugees » Sigismund, posted by rayww on September 1, 2008, at 11:16:43
> It is good that you provide breakfast for the homeless.
>
> Maybe the drug trade has caused a high percentage of our homeless here in the US. Power hungry drug cartels.
>No, I think this is more likely the reason for homelessness:(see where I put ****
In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. *The top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 33.4%* of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 51%, which means that ***just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 84%***, leaving only 16% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth, the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 39.7%.
Posted by Sigismund on September 2, 2008, at 15:42:12
In reply to Re: socialist expectations » rayww, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on September 2, 2008, at 8:16:51
>I, for one, believe the US constitution was inspired of God for our day, and that as imperfect a system as democracy is, it is still better than any other alternative.
If this is true, then it must be important to protect the constitution (from the sorts of deformations that it has recently suffered).
This is the end of the thread.
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