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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cydnie on April 1, 2011, at 13:34:49
I took selegiline at a small dose and had a great effect, but because it affected something I was allergic to, I couldn't take it anymore and it worked so well on my depression. I'm now falling back into despair, and was reading about selegiline that "Selegiline is a selective inhibitor of MAO-B; MAO-B metabolizes dopamine and phenylethylamine" and I am taking requip (but may go back to velvet bean and green tea) and looked up phenylethylamine and found you can buy it. Is it safe to take? Does anyone know how much to take? I'm hoping if I can work on the dopamine and PEA in my system at least for a short time, maybe I can pull myself out of the pit of despair long enough to get me through the weekend and talk to my doc when he returns! I have a hyper toddler to take care of all day alone, and feel like curling up in a ball and crying/sleeping, and don't want to get lower than that, I'm so scared. I also want to take an ashwaganda, and maybe bacopa, l-theanine later on in the day for anxiolytic effects (don't think I should take at the same time as the stimulating ones. Any help would be so appreciated, I hate this feeling that is coming back. I dreaded it returning, and it's scarily coming down on me fast!!!
Posted by Cydnie on April 1, 2011, at 13:46:15
In reply to PEA in place of selegiline?, posted by Cydnie on April 1, 2011, at 13:34:49
Also wanted to say I just found a bottle of DLPA but don't understand the difference other than I read that it does not cross the BBB as well as PEA. I thought I would try it then and see, but I would love to hear anyone's thoughts on using PEA and should I leave out the velvet bean since PEA works on dopamine too? Oh, I'm so desperate to stop the despair!!! God, I hate that it's coming back. I was feeling good for awhile on selegiline, and then on remeron on a small dose until it was upped, and then went down hill like a canon, and here I am back online trying to find a way to help myself with suplements again! My doc uses them, and has me taking maca and rhodiola every day as well as the remeron, but he told me he's noticed every time he ups the remeron, I get more depressed and says it's too much NE, but I've taken so many NE meds, and they've only made me edgy when I had too much, so with remeron, I feel it's something else. Sorry, long babble!!! So desperate for help!
Posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2011, at 5:36:34
In reply to Re: PEA in place of selegiline?, posted by Cydnie on April 1, 2011, at 13:46:15
hey.
I think it might be useful to differentiate between positive affect and negative affect, and energy/lethargy.
AFKAIR PEA has an awfully short halflife. have you tried stimulants? and, what drugs have you tried, and to what effect?
anyway, remember emotions say mean things and want attention but toddlers are even better at it.
-d/r
Posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2011, at 5:43:34
In reply to Re: PEA in place of selegiline?, posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2011, at 5:36:34
also, allergy?
Posted by Cydnie on April 4, 2011, at 9:10:13
In reply to Re: PEA in place of selegiline?, posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2011, at 5:43:34
Hi! Thanks for writing back about the PEA. I took a small dose of selegiline, I can't remember what the starting dose is, but it was the first thing that had worked for me as an anti-depressant. But it caused a flare up because of some inflammatory properties (having to do with interleukin b, it's a lot of science, that while I don't fully understand, I had to stop taking it and was so depressed). On stimulants, I've done fanastically on adderall and vyvanse. Using them was the first time I was able to motivate myself to get out of bed, was so social, was taking care of my baby and actually having fun, and was not making those horrible critical comments to myself in my mind (in fact, quite the opposite! Was doing so well on it!) Someone had recently told me you can't use them as an AD (I don't use just them, but it's amazing what an AD effect they've had for me, and I credit them for being the reason I've pulled myself up and out of my depression enough to get my baby and myself out of the house and go to a playgroup and talk to other moms, and my son could play with other kids). Anyway, I know I can't use them forever, and a very small dose of remeron seemed to be working wonders along with adderall and vyvanse, but know I need to stop taking stims and go natural, so thought I should look at PEA. I saw that selegiline works on dopamine and phenylanine and so I was hoping to recreate the effect naturally hoping to bypass the allergy problem! (by the way, my doctor is very unusual and never made me stop taking stims with selegiline or emsam, never had one problem - but that was me) I thought if I used velvet bean/mucuna pruriens (15%) and l-phenylanine, maybe I could try. I read last night to use phenylanine and to have it work, you need an MAOI-B, like selegiline, so I looked for other suggestions for natural ones, and found kava listed, and am going to take it with green tea. I ordered it last night, so it will take awhile before I can start my experiment, but in case anyone's interested, I will definitely post back and let you know if it works! If you have any suggestions, desolationthrower, I would be so happy to hear them (or any questions). Thanks!! Cydnie
Posted by desolationrower on April 5, 2011, at 20:57:35
In reply to Re: PEA in place of selegiline? » desolationrower, posted by Cydnie on April 4, 2011, at 9:10:13
> Hi! Thanks for writing back about the PEA. I took a small dose of selegiline, I can't remember what the starting dose is, but it was the first thing that had worked for me as an anti-depressant. But it caused a flare up because of some inflammatory properties (having to do with interleukin b, it's a lot of science, that while I don't fully understand, I had to stop taking it and was so depressed). On stimulants, I've done fanastically on adderall and vyvanse. Using them was the first time I was able to motivate myself to get out of bed, was so social, was taking care of my baby and actually having fun, and was not making those horrible critical comments to myself in my mind (in fact, quite the opposite! Was doing so well on it!) Someone had recently told me you can't use them as an AD (I don't use just them, but it's amazing what an AD effect they've had for me, and I credit them for being the reason I've pulled myself up and out of my depression enough to get my baby and myself out of the house and go to a playgroup and talk to other moms, and my son could play with other kids).
they used to be called antidepressants when you could buy them in the drug store for whatever.
In animals models, they aren't antidepressants.
This isn't really the same as saying they don't help people with depression:
animal models usually involve torturing the animal, and seeing if it gives up on life. So, ADs give them the mouse equivalent of inner peace, acceptance of life sucking, etc. Animal models don't include the systemfuction of "change behaviour -> get better reactions from others and life in general -> life sucks less -> don't feel so depressed">Anyway, I know I can't use them forever,
the focus effects is pretty lasting. the mood and fire-under-ass effect less so.
>and a very small dose of remeron seemed to be working wonders along with adderall and vyvanse,
a very small dose of remeron = an antihistamine. probably improved sleep quality.
>but know I need to stop taking stims and go natural, so thought I should look at PEA. I saw that selegiline works on dopamine and phenylanine and so I was hoping to recreate the effect naturally hoping to bypass the allergy problem! (by the way, my doctor is very unusual and never made me stop taking stims with selegiline or emsam, never had one problem - but that was me) I thought if I used velvet bean/mucuna pruriens (15%) and l-phenylanine, maybe I could try. I read last night to use phenylanine and to have it work, you need an MAOI-B, like selegiline, so I looked for other suggestions for natural ones, and found kava listed, and am going to take it with green tea.
to me, kava was sort of similar to alcohol. this may help with anxiety or lack of energy for interactions. For MAOI level doses, i would expect strong anxyolytic effect, probably sleepiness. and i mixed it in green tea. it sort of tasted ok. since then, i read a series of books that posited a society that favored kava in coffee. I'm not sure that would taste good. i think rhodiola is also a MAOI. I think PEA is more of a AMP substitue with a MAOI, not a maoi substitute.
have you considered a regular old fashioned MAOI? tranylcypromine is the best AD i took, by far.
>I ordered it last night, so it will take awhile before I can start my experiment, but in case anyone's interested, I will definitely post back and let you know if it works! If you have any suggestions, desolationthrower, I would be so happy to hear them (or any questions). Thanks!! Cydnie
well hope it works out, let me know.
-d/r
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 13, 2011, at 23:49:43
In reply to Re: PEA in place of selegiline? » desolationrower, posted by Cydnie on April 4, 2011, at 9:10:13
You are allergic to both EMSAM and oral selegiline? I doubt PEA will do anything, or else they wouldn't sell it OTC. If you can wait until your next doctor's visit, I would say what d/r said -- try a different MAOI. If you are determined to find something herbal, then people say St. John's Wort is good, and I have heard that SAMe is an AD. There is some stuff that might work on anxiety, like GABA or phenibut. But you are not going to find many potent drugs sold OTC as herbs.
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 14, 2011, at 11:09:25
In reply to Re: PEA in place of selegiline? » desolationrower, posted by Cydnie on April 4, 2011, at 9:10:13
> But it caused a flare up because of some inflammatory properties (having to do with interleukin b, it's a lot of science, that while I don't fully understand, I had to stop taking it and was so depressed).
I'm not sure what you're talking about. But as a general principle, I don't put much stock in complex explanations and things that you can't fully understand. So is there a simpler explanation? Or was this coming from the mouth of an expert?
> On stimulants, I've done fanastically on adderall and vyvanse. Using them was the first time I was able to motivate myself to get out of bed, was so social, was taking care of my baby and actually having fun, and was not making those horrible critical comments to myself in my mind (in fact, quite the opposite! Was doing so well on it!) Someone had recently told me you can't use them as an AD (I don't use just them, but it's amazing what an AD effect they've had for me, and I credit them for being the reason I've pulled myself up and out of my depression enough to get my baby and myself out of the house and go to a playgroup and talk to other moms, and my son could play with other kids).
It seems like if it helps you get your life in order, that would have an antidepressant effect in and of itself, right? But I guess stims can turn on you if not used appropriately.
> Anyway, I know I can't use them forever, and a very small dose of remeron seemed to be working wonders along with adderall and vyvanse, but know I need to stop taking stims and go natural, so thought I should look at PEA.
Stopping stims is one thing, but why do you need to go natural? The medical establishment goes to extreme lengths to ensure the safety and potency of FDA-approved medicines. You are losing all of that by going with herbs and supplements.
And there is no conspiracy to hold down effective herbal treatments. Seriously. There might be some that have somehow not been noticed by big pharma, but the odds are not very high.
> I saw that selegiline works on dopamine and phenylanine and so I was hoping to recreate the effect naturally hoping to bypass the allergy problem! (by the way, my doctor is very unusual and never made me stop taking stims with selegiline or emsam, never had one problem - but that was me) I thought if I used velvet bean/mucuna pruriens (15%) and l-phenylanine, maybe I could try. I read last night to use phenylanine and to have it work, you need an MAOI-B, like selegiline,
So you are trying for some kind of beneficial interaction between phenylalanine and an MAOI? It seems dangerous to try this sort of thing unless you absolutely know what you're doing.
> so I looked for other suggestions for natural ones, and found kava listed, and am going to take it with green tea. I ordered it last night, so it will take awhile before I can start my experiment, but in case anyone's interested, I will definitely post back and let you know if it works! If you have any suggestions, desolationthrower, I would be so happy to hear them (or any questions). Thanks!! Cydnie
I just noticed "desolationthrower"... LOL. Sorry, not making fun, just strikes me as funny.
It's been a while since you posted so I hope things are copascetic.
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 14, 2011, at 11:14:37
In reply to Re: PEA in place of selegiline? » desolationrower, posted by Cydnie on April 4, 2011, at 9:10:13
> I thought if I used velvet bean/mucuna pruriens (15%) and l-phenylanine, maybe I could try. I read last night to use phenylanine and to have it work, you need an MAOI-B, like selegiline,
By the way, an MAOI + mucuna pruriens sounds like definitely something to avoid. Mucuna pruriens is a potentially toxic soup of active drugs and an MAOI could allow them to build up to dangerous levels. I'm not sure if only blocking MAOI-B would have this danger, but why take the chance?
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 14, 2011, at 11:16:48
In reply to Re: PEA in place of selegiline?, posted by mtdewcmu on April 14, 2011, at 11:14:37
> I'm not sure if only blocking MAOI-B would have this danger, but why take the chance?
Oops -- I meant MAO-B -- perfectionism.
Posted by Gup on April 22, 2011, at 17:19:31
In reply to PEA in place of selegiline?, posted by Cydnie on April 1, 2011, at 13:34:49
> I took selegiline at a small dose and had a great effect, but because it affected something I was allergic to, I couldn't take it anymore and it worked so well on my depression.
You could try Rasagiline instead, it is also an anti-MAO-B medication.
Posted by torridcalm on May 15, 2011, at 18:35:05
In reply to Re: PEA in place of selegiline? » Cydnie, posted by mtdewcmu on April 13, 2011, at 23:49:43
> You are allergic to both EMSAM and oral selegiline? I doubt PEA will do anything, or else they wouldn't sell it OTC. If you can wait until your next doctor's visit, I would say what d/r said -- try a different MAOI. If you are determined to find something herbal, then people say St. John's Wort is good, and I have heard that SAMe is an AD. There is some stuff that might work on anxiety, like GABA or phenibut. But you are not going to find many potent drugs sold OTC as herbs.
Do you have ADHD, I relate to you and I'm ADHD plus anxiety and depression. SAMe works on me in a couple hours and works better then any AD except for wellbutrin. SAMe cost a bundle but short term it's great, it poops out about 6 weeks or less on me. Have you trying wellbutrin? so sad you are having trouble at this joyious time.
Posted by torridcalm on May 15, 2011, at 18:35:26
In reply to Re: PEA in place of selegiline? » Cydnie, posted by mtdewcmu on April 13, 2011, at 23:49:43
> You are allergic to both EMSAM and oral selegiline? I doubt PEA will do anything, or else they wouldn't sell it OTC. If you can wait until your next doctor's visit, I would say what d/r said -- try a different MAOI. If you are determined to find something herbal, then people say St. John's Wort is good, and I have heard that SAMe is an AD. There is some stuff that might work on anxiety, like GABA or phenibut. But you are not going to find many potent drugs sold OTC as herbs.
Do you have ADHD, I relate to you and I'm ADHD plus anxiety and depression. SAMe works on me in a couple hours and works better then any AD except for wellbutrin. SAMe cost a bundle but short term it's great, it poops out about 6 weeks or less on me. Have you trying wellbutrin? so sad you are having trouble at this joyious time.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on October 6, 2011, at 19:25:56
In reply to PEA in place of selegiline?, posted by Cydnie on April 1, 2011, at 13:34:49
I'm going to cut to the chase: what you're looking for already exists, and it is called dextroamphetamine. If PEA + an MAOI works for you, great, but IMHO it is most likely you're going to find out that it's not what you'd hoped for.
This is the end of the thread.
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